Refuting the Christian Rationalizations of God Sending People to Hell

[Darkforbid]

Exactly. God is already supposedly forcing a
person to pick between only two choices,
heaven/hell. If "forcing" is such a terrible
thing, and free will is such a sacred thing that
even God himself must step aside and let it
reign, then the choices should be limitless,
not either/or.

-

How can with God or without God be limitless choice?

 

[Yokefellow]

However, this rationalization fails miserably and still makes the Christian god out to be a monster.

You are absolutely, one hundred percent correct. As a Fundamental Christian, I can attest to that fact.

A loving God sending people to an eternity of torments is completely psychotic at minimum.

Yet... it's not Biblical. Not even close. It's a complete fabrication. One of the biggest lies ever told.

Here is the answer to the biggest contradiction taught in the history of all religions...

Are you ready?

Reincarnation.

That's it.

Reincarnation explains everything and is completely Biblical no matter how much your average Christian hems, haws, screams, yells, curses etc.

If the Church were to teach this again, as it did a long time ago, Christianity would flourish.

 

[Darkforbid]

The world flood

**** pore attempt, how would a pre modern age writer have full global knowledge

 

[Nimos]

Is there anything sadder than Atheists who hang around religious forums?

What about people that claim to believe and serve God that have been caught molesting children, that seems slightly sadder to me?

People blowing up others because they believe in an all might God for which there is no evidence.

People telling others how to live their lives and end up hurting them due to their own ignorance and beliefs, for which they can not provide any proofs.

And the list go on....

 

[Kenny]

Whenever someone brings up the fact that a being who sends people to hell must be a moral monster, the typical response by Christians is something along the lines of "God gives people a choice to accept his offer of salvation or not, and God is just giving those who don't accept his offer what they want by not saving them since they never asked to be saved." However, this rationalization fails miserably and still makes the Christian god out to be a monster. For an analogy, consider a parent who is watching their child swim in a lake and can see that the child is drowning. Now suppose that the child does not ask to be saved or even outright rejects the parent's offers for help, and says "I don't need you, I can save myself!" Would a loving and benevolent parent who KNEW the child could not save themself sit back, watch the child drown and say "Fine. I won't save you because you rejected my offer" or would the parent save the child anyway? The parent who lets the child drown simply because the child rejected the offer for help is of course evil, and if this scenario happened in real life, we would immediately demand that the parent face prison time. Yet when Christians imagine their god doing the same thing, they call him "loving", "fair", and "just." Pretty ironic, isn't it?

I'm sure you can create a scenario to your liking and then support your erroneous position. But the answer is categorically "no" to your position.

You, in effect, blame the judge for sending a person to jail for murder. It's the judges fault for executing the law and its the parents fault for not stopping their child for committing murder.

Or, if you like, there are thousands of parents who would do anything to stop their child from taking drugs... but their children don't want their help and have decided to continue.

As for a parent letting their child drown. Jesus jumped into the pool and died to help the child get new life to live.

 

[Darkforbid]

What about people that claim to believe and serve God that have been caught molesting children, that seems slightly sadder to me?

People blowing up others because they believe in an all might God for which there is no evidence.

People telling others how to live their lives and end up hurting them due to their own ignorance and beliefs, for which they can not provide any proofs.

And the list go on....

Like there are no atheist child molesters or only religious terrorism

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

But you're not talking about children. You saying God should force salvation, despite the will of person in question

No, he is not saying that at all. He's saying that it would seem that God would be aware, being omniscient, that the person doesn't know himself what is needed. We persons are, after all, neither God nor omniscient.

But that seems to be God's rule -- "hey, if you don't know, not up to me to tell you. Suffer the consequences, loser!"

 

[Nimos]

Like there are no atheist child molesters or only religious terrorism

No action that harms others are good. But at least Atheists don't go around pretending to serve and all mighty God and tell others to do the same or tell children that they are going to hell, if they don't live according to God's rules. I also doubt you will find a lot, if any atheists that have blown up others in the name of atheism.

 

[PruePhillip]

Whenever someone brings up the fact that a being who sends people to hell must be a moral monster, the typical response by Christians is something along the lines of "God gives people a choice to accept his offer of salvation or not, and God is just giving those who don't accept his offer what they want by not saving them since they never asked to be saved." However, this rationalization fails miserably and still makes the Christian god out to be a monster. For an analogy, consider a parent who is watching their child swim in a lake and can see that the child is drowning. Now suppose that the child does not ask to be saved or even outright rejects the parent's offers for help, and says "I don't need you, I can save myself!" Would a loving and benevolent parent who KNEW the child could not save themself sit back, watch the child drown and say "Fine. I won't save you because you rejected my offer" or would the parent save the child anyway? The parent who lets the child drown simply because the child rejected the offer for help is of course evil, and if this scenario happened in real life, we would immediately demand that the parent face prison time. Yet when Christians imagine their god doing the same thing, they call him "loving", "fair", and "just." Pretty ironic, isn't it?

God gives historical metaphors for concepts like the Promised Land,
brought out of captivity, punishment via exile, deliverance, the Holy
City, God's people etc..
The God that "can't punish people with hell" punished the Jewish
people. Jesus wept for Jerusalem and said the Jews did not know
the time of their visitation - the enemy would lay them to the ground,
including their children, and carry the survivors off into a very long
captivity.
As a result many millions of Jews died in three Roman wars. They
remained in exile for nearly 2,000 years - and many millions more
died in pogroms, crusades and genocides.

A God that did this can cast you into hell.

An interesting saying "GOD WILL DO WHAT HE SAYS HE WILL DO."

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

God gives people choices. If someone ends up being punished it is because that person made the wrong choice. God is not to blame when a person is punished, the person is to blame

It is categorically WRONG to give people choices without also giving them sufficient information on which to base those choices. The teacher who says to the student, "I'm not going to teach you multiplication, but if you can't tell me what the product of 32 times 77 is, you fail, tough luck," ought to be fired and never allowed near children again.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Is there anything sadder than Atheists who hang around religious forums?

You're right. It sometimes saddens me immeasurably how theists (of so many sorts, since there appear to be so many gods to worship) must abandon reason.

 

[Darkforbid]

No action that harms others are good. But at least Atheists don't go around pretending to serve and all mighty God and tell others to do the same or tell children that they are going to hell, if they don't live according to God's rules. I also doubt you will find a lot, if any atheists that have blown up others in the name of atheism.

On the contrary, modern history is full of horrific things done in an attempt to stamp out religion.

 

[Astravalon]

How can with God or without God be limitless choice?

I believe God is omnipresent, so "without God" is
not going to factor into it.


-

 

[shunyadragon]

**** pore attempt, how would a pre modern age writer have full global knowledge

He claimed it. Described the flood covering the highest mountains.

The physical evidence refutes refutes any form of regional or world flood.

 

[Darkforbid]

You're right. It sometimes saddens me immeasurably how theists (of so many sorts, since there appear to be so many gods to worship) must abandon reason.

What makes you think theists abandon reason?

 

[shunyadragon]

What makes you think theists abandon reason?

Not all theists, but those that believe in the ancient worldview based on mythology prefer that over reason.

 

[Milton Platt]

Whenever someone brings up the fact that a being who sends people to hell must be a moral monster, the typical response by Christians is something along the lines of "God gives people a choice to accept his offer of salvation or not, and God is just giving those who don't accept his offer what they want by not saving them since they never asked to be saved." However, this rationalization fails miserably and still makes the Christian god out to be a monster. For an analogy, consider a parent who is watching their child swim in a lake and can see that the child is drowning. Now suppose that the child does not ask to be saved or even outright rejects the parent's offers for help, and says "I don't need you, I can save myself!" Would a loving and benevolent parent who KNEW the child could not save themself sit back, watch the child drown and say "Fine. I won't save you because you rejected my offer" or would the parent save the child anyway? The parent who lets the child drown simply because the child rejected the offer for help is of course evil, and if this scenario happened in real life, we would immediately demand that the parent face prison time. Yet when Christians imagine their god doing the same thing, they call him "loving", "fair", and "just." Pretty ironic, isn't it?

Yes, so is an infinite punishment for a finite crime.

 

[Darkforbid]

He claimed it. Described the flood covering the highest mountains.

Depends how you read it, if you think it's from the accumulated water from 40days and nights of rain,, my faith would describe you as biblically illiterate

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

What makes you think theists abandon reason?

The things they say -- out of their own mouths.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

You do know I live in a country that still has religious representation in Parliament and apart from my interactions with my faith. I see no effect at all

Yet, in countries with so call separation of church and state, it's claimed the church effects everyone

Maybe you should drop separation so you get less effect like here

I don't disagree with church and state separation has had limited success in actually making US more secular. But I don't think removing it would suddenly make things better, as it wouldn't suddenly end the religious conservative lawmakers and their religious agendas from play, nor change the amount of cultural saturation of fundamentalism we have.

I do think atheists should be far less concerned with petti separation issues like 'in God we trust' and focus on more impactful things like LGBT rights.