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Refuting the Christian Rationalizations of God Sending People to Hell

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
Whenever someone brings up the fact that a being who sends people to hell must be a moral monster, the typical response by Christians is something along the lines of "God gives people a choice to accept his offer of salvation or not, and God is just giving those who don't accept his offer what they want by not saving them since they never asked to be saved." However, this rationalization fails miserably and still makes the Christian god out to be a monster. For an analogy, consider a parent who is watching their child swim in a lake and can see that the child is drowning. Now suppose that the child does not ask to be saved or even outright rejects the parent's offers for help, and says "I don't need you, I can save myself!" Would a loving and benevolent parent who KNEW the child could not save themself sit back, watch the child drown and say "Fine. I won't save you because you rejected my offer" or would the parent save the child anyway? The parent who lets the child drown simply because the child rejected the offer for help is of course evil, and if this scenario happened in real life, we would immediately demand that the parent face prison time. Yet when Christians imagine their god doing the same thing, they call him "loving", "fair", and "just." Pretty ironic, isn't it?
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
God gives people choices. If someone ends up being punished it is because that person made the wrong choice. God is not to blame when a person is punished, the person is to blame
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Whenever someone brings up the fact that a being who sends people to hell must be a moral monster, the typical response by Christians is something along the lines of "God gives people a choice to accept his offer of salvation or not, and God is just giving those who don't accept his offer what they want by not saving them since they never asked to be saved." However, this rationalization fails miserably and still makes the Christian god out to be a monster. For an analogy, consider a parent who is watching their child swim in a lake and can see that the child is drowning. Now suppose that the child does not ask to be saved or even outright rejects the parent's offers for help, and says "I don't need you, I can save myself!" Would a loving and benevolent parent who KNEW the child could not save themself sit back, watch the child drown and say "Fine. I won't save you because you rejected my offer" or would the parent save the child anyway? The parent who lets the child drown simply because the child rejected the offer for help is of course evil, and if this scenario happened in real life, we would immediately demand that the parent face prison time. Yet when Christians imagine their god doing the same thing, they call him "loving", "fair", and "just." Pretty ironic, isn't it?
I ask because you're speaking about Christians. Do you expect to change things? Talk is cheap, right? Assuming that you are correct how do you propose to correct the situation in which this irony exists? Its well known that argument rarely if ever changes minds. What's this about?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I see no reason whatsoever to refute it. Let them believe whatever, it won't change much.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Whenever someone brings up the fact that a being who sends people to hell must be a moral monster, the typical response by Christians is something along the lines of "God gives people a choice to accept his offer of salvation or not, and God is just giving those who don't accept his offer what they want by not saving them since they never asked to be saved." However, this rationalization fails miserably and still makes the Christian god out to be a monster. For an analogy, consider a parent who is watching their child swim in a lake and can see that the child is drowning. Now suppose that the child does not ask to be saved or even outright rejects the parent's offers for help, and says "I don't need you, I can save myself!" Would a loving and benevolent parent who KNEW the child could not save themself sit back, watch the child drown and say "Fine. I won't save you because you rejected my offer" or would the parent save the child anyway? The parent who lets the child drown simply because the child rejected the offer for help is of course evil, and if this scenario happened in real life, we would immediately demand that the parent face prison time. Yet when Christians imagine their god doing the same thing, they call him "loving", "fair", and "just." Pretty ironic, isn't it?

Religions based on ancient mythology and beliefs are easy to refute. The value and context in the progressive Revelation for these religions anchored in past beliefs and tribalism has long past.
 
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Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
But you're not talking about children. You saying God should force salvation, despite the will of person in question
But why hell? Just give them an alternate afterlife where they can be happy, just without You, even though You're "omnipresent" and thus really there is NO "away from You."

If someone ends up being punished it is because that person made the wrong choice.
But why do evil people go to heaven while some unbeliever goes to hell when the latter was more moral?

God is not to blame when a person is punished, the person is to blame
It is when the person isn't being punished for anything more than not massaging God's ego.

Is there anything sadder than Atheists who hang around religious forums?
Not as sad as theists who need to rescue poor God from those meanies. Need to rename God Princess Peach.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
The world flood
The Exodus
Pretty much almost everything prior to at least the Judges' period if not the monarchy. It's implied there were no texts until at least King Josiah and it's not like they tested the text they "found" filled with convenient laws he needs to bring people in line to see how old it was. If it's in Hebrew, Moses couldn't have written it because the written language didn't exist at his time period.
 
But why hell? Just give them an alternate afterlife where they can be happy, just without You, even though You're "omnipresent" and thus really there is NO "away from You."
Exactly. God is already supposedly forcing a
person to pick between only two choices,
heaven/hell. If "forcing" is such a terrible
thing, and free will is such a sacred thing that
even God himself must step aside and let it
reign, then the choices should be limitless,
not either/or.

-
 

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
Why not? Religions effect atheists, too. Heck, some atheists are religious or spiritual, just don't believe in god(s).
Some just want to argue, but plenty of theists have that in mind, too.

You do know I live in a country that still has religious representation in Parliament and apart from my interactions with my faith. I see no effect at all

Yet, in countries with so call separation of church and state, it's claimed the church effects everyone

Maybe you should drop separation so you get less effect like here
 

Wasp

Active Member
But a child is not responsible for himself. If he does wrong he won't be punished. The parent would be punished for neglecting the child.

But then this hypothetical child is merely dying, not committing some sin (unless you count it as suicide).

This hypothetical situation also relies on verbal communication. A person won't go to hell for saying out loud, "I don't need God." but for continuously disbelieving in his heart and showing that in his actions.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Whenever someone brings up the fact that a being who sends people to hell must be a moral monster, the typical response by Christians is something along the lines of "God gives people a choice to accept his offer of salvation or not, and God is just giving those who don't accept his offer what they want by not saving them since they never asked to be saved."

Who said this is a Being who sends people to "hell"? The Bible does not say that at all....."hell" (sheol, hades) in the Bible is no more scary or torturous than going to sleep. There is no consciousness in death. If you are not conscious, you can't be tortured. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)

People mistake the mistranslated "gehenna" for this fiery hell, when all it was in Jesus reference to it, was a garbage dump where fires were kept burning day and night to consume the city's refuse. Criminals who were executed for breaking God's laws were not considered worthy of a decent burial so their bodies were cast into gehenna where their remains were burned up...since they had no memorial tomb with their name inscribed, according to Jewish belief they would not be remembered by God in the resurrection. It was nothing more than a symbol for eternal death.
God actually sends atheists to where they themselves expect to go. How is that unfair?

However, this rationalization fails miserably and still makes the Christian god out to be a monster. For an analogy, consider a parent who is watching their child swim in a lake and can see that the child is drowning. Now suppose that the child does not ask to be saved or even outright rejects the parent's offers for help, and says "I don't need you, I can save myself!" Would a loving and benevolent parent who KNEW the child could not save themself sit back, watch the child drown and say "Fine. I won't save you because you rejected my offer" or would the parent save the child anyway? The parent who lets the child drown simply because the child rejected the offer for help is of course evil, and if this scenario happened in real life, we would immediately demand that the parent face prison time. Yet when Christians imagine their god doing the same thing, they call him "loving", "fair", and "just." Pretty ironic, isn't it?

What a ridiculous analogy. We aren't talking about children...we are talking about grown adults who have free will and who can make the choice to abide by God's rules or not. Since the penalty is set by the Law written by our Creator, as our rightful Sovereign, he has right to set the terms of our tenancy here on planet Earth. If we break his rules, he has the right to evict us. How does that make him a monster?

If you want an analogy, how about selfish brats dictating to their parents what they will and will not do? This undisciplined, self-serving attitude spills over into adulthood and then we have ungrateful adults who continue to behave as if they can still be brats and get their own way for the rest of their lives.

The attitude of "I can have my cake and eat it too" is a very foolish platform from which to make value judgments about the Baker. The potter does not dictate to the clay, the terms of his molding.

"I did it my way" might have been the name of a successful song some time ago, but in reality "doing it my way" hasn't really made for harmonious relations with other humans, has it?

Read your tenancy agreement and if you can't abide by the rules, how can you whine about your impending eviction.....:shrug: The Landlord sets the rules.....who else has the right?

Its a clear cut case of "shape up or ship out"....IMV
 
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