Can God be proven to exist?

[Audie]

Correct. I think any kind of evidence for anything should be as you said.

I was asking for a more specific idea of evidence. Im no scientist, but lets say evidence that fire exists is to light something and show it. So what kind of evidence do you expect?

I know this sounds like a very immature question. Maybe you think "God could just appear like a giant and talk". You see, different people, even atheists have very different ideas about it so thats why im asking.

Answering for C, I dont expect anything.

A bit of wet wool on a thorn bush is insufficient tho.

However, it does seem to me that if this here
god is sooo clever, he'd have no trouble devising
a way to be noticed.

 

[leov]

How? Could you give me an example how God can make his existence clear?

You said you are a theist , what do you know that made your theism?

 

[firedragon]

You said you are a theist , what do you know that made your theism?

Ah. Thats a whole different subject brother. Sorry, I refrain from answering that question at this time because I am learning peoples thoughts and this will turn into my justification of my belief and then your response and derail the thread altogether. Apologies.

 

[leov]

Ah. Thats a whole different subject brother. Sorry, I refrain from answering that question at this time because I am learning peoples thoughts and this will turn into my justification of my belief and then your response and derail the thread altogether. Apologies.

Fair enough.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Maybe this may not come as a high level discussion, but I just wish to know some views on "Can God be proven to exist". I am a theist, and I do personally believe that this proving God exists thing can never be done. I also believe that various people have varying concepts of God and most of us judge by our personal standards.

1. But as an Atheist, what would you think is evidence of a God to exist?
2. Also, as a theist, what would you accept as evidence?
3. And if you have the patience to write a little more, what is the concept of God you have in your mind?

Thank you in advance.

It seems to me that we'd need to answer question 3 in order to answer questions 1 and 2.

That aside, assuming some pretty typical things about gods... for question 1: a god is a pretty extraordinary - IMO outlandish - claim. It would need to clear a pretty high bar before the most reasonable explanation is that the god really exists.

 

[MJ Bailey]

Maybe this may not come as a high level discussion, but I just wish to know some views on "Can God be proven to exist". I am a theist, and I do personally believe that this proving God exists thing can never be done. I also believe that various people have varying concepts of God and most of us judge by our personal standards.

1. But as an Atheist, what would you think is evidence of a God to exist?
2. Also, as a theist, what would you accept as evidence?
3. And if you have the patience to write a little more, what is the concept of God you have in your mind?

Thank you in advance.

So Science, Reality, and basic Existence don't have consistency?
Evolution. Eternal Omnipotence. Is this a sufficient answer?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Maybe this may not come as a high level discussion, but I just wish to know some views on "Can God be proven to exist". I am a theist, and I do personally believe that this proving God exists thing can never be done. I also believe that various people have varying concepts of God and most of us judge by our personal standards.

1. But as an Atheist, what would you think is evidence of a God to exist?
2. Also, as a theist, what would you accept as evidence?
3. And if you have the patience to write a little more, what is the concept of God you have in your mind?

Thank you in advance.

Well it would take an actual God for starters. ;0)

Just noting people doing all the talking or doing on 'God's behalf' doesn't exemplify much other than effectively proving that God is clearly a mental puppet of their own making.

 

[sun rise]

• Also, as a theist, what would you accept as evidence?

• And if you have the patience to write a little more, what is the concept of God you have in your mind?

As someone who accepts God, I know of no external evidence possible. Rather my frame-of-reference is given by such figures as Kabir that God is found by an inner search:

Does Khuda live in the mosque?
Then who who lives everywhere?
Is Ram in idols and holy ground?
Have you looked and found him there?
Hari in the East, Allah in the West -
So you like to dream.
Search in the heart, in the heart alone:
There live Ram and Karim.
​

To your other bullet point, to me God is beyond the rational intellects ability to conceive of. The closest I can get is to note paradoxes and the fusion of opposites such as God is both immanent and transcendent, in the world and beyond the world and so forth.

 

[firedragon]

So Science, Reality, and basic Existence don't have consistency?
Evolution. Eternal Omnipotence. Is this a sufficient answer?

Honestly, its not a sufficient answer brother. This is the reason I also asked about your perspective of the concept of God people have. You dont really have to answer that of course but you should know that there are many ideas about "the deity" and some concepts of God go along with the theory of evolution. One may think that theists dont believe in evolution which seems to be stemming from your comment above, but more than even the current century, theism has also gone along with evolution.

My question in the OP is specific. Maybe my writing skills are not very good.

 

[firedragon]

It seems to me that we'd need to answer question 3 in order to answer questions 1 and 2.

That aside, assuming some pretty typical things about gods... for question 1: a god is a pretty extraordinary - IMO outlandish - claim. It would need to clear a pretty high bar before the most reasonable explanation is that the god really exists.

Actually, you nailed it. The 3rd question is fundamental to respond to the other two questions. But then again, that would restrict peoples thoughts.

To your other response about the evidence, I agree a god is a pretty extraordinary claim. But what would suffice as evidence to that claim?

 

[Stevicus]

Maybe this may not come as a high level discussion, but I just wish to know some views on "Can God be proven to exist". I am a theist, and I do personally believe that this proving God exists thing can never be done. I also believe that various people have varying concepts of God and most of us judge by our personal standards.

1. But as an Atheist, what would you think is evidence of a God to exist?
2. Also, as a theist, what would you accept as evidence?
3. And if you have the patience to write a little more, what is the concept of God you have in your mind?

Thank you in advance.

Well, maybe some kind of miracle might do. Walking on water, turning water into wine. Or maybe taking some bread and a few fish and turning it into a million Fillet-O-Fish Happy Meals.

Or maybe more curing people. I can't even imagine how many people out there praying for a sick or dying loved one - sometimes even kids who get some dreaded disease at an early age. People pray and pray and pray, and yet, nothing happens. Some people don't even let their kids get medical care or blood transfusions, leaving it all up to faith and prayer.

If it was actually proven to work on a consistent and ongoing basis, then it might be worth taking note of and examining further.

 

[leov]

Actually, you nailed it. The 3rd question is fundamental to respond to the other two questions. But then again, that would restrict peoples thoughts.

To your other response about the evidence, I agree a god is . But what would suffice as evidence to that claim?

Just a note that for thousands of years atheism was 'a pretty extraordinary claim'.

 

[ChristineM]

Correct. I think any kind of evidence for anything should be as you said.

I was asking for a more specific idea of evidence. Im no scientist, but lets say evidence that fire exists is to light something and show it. So what kind of evidence do you expect?

I know this sounds like a very immature question. Maybe you think "God could just appear like a giant and talk". You see, different people, even atheists have very different ideas about it so thats why im asking.

Who knows? Whatever evidence it would need to be compelling. It would need to prove a god and not a sufficiently advanced being.

 

[Audie]

So Science, Reality, and basic Existence don't have consistency?
Evolution. Eternal Omnipotence. Is this a sufficient answer?

huh?

 

[Audie]

Honestly, its not a sufficient answer brother. This is the reason I also asked about your perspective of the concept of God people have. You dont really have to answer that of course but you should know that there are many ideas about "the deity" and some concepts of God go along with the theory of evolution. One may think that theists dont believe in evolution which seems to be stemming from your comment above, but more than even the current century, theism has also gone along with evolution.

My question in the OP is specific. Maybe my writing skills are not very good.

Better'n those of the one you is respondin' to.

 

[Audie]

Well, maybe some kind of miracle might do. Walking on water, turning water into wine. Or maybe taking some bread and a few fish and turning it into a million Fillet-O-Fish Happy Meals.

Or maybe more curing people. I can't even imagine how many people out there praying for a sick or dying loved one - sometimes even kids who get some dreaded disease at an early age. People pray and pray and pray, and yet, nothing happens. Some people don't even let their kids get medical care or blood transfusions, leaving it all up to faith and prayer.

If it was actually proven to work on a consistent and ongoing basis, then it might be worth taking note of and examining further.

Prayer-healing getting legs to grow back would do.

Also, I am getting so discouraged about my Ms America
plans. If "He" could just tweak that a bit???

 

[firedragon]

Just a note that for thousands of years atheism was 'a pretty extraordinary claim'.

Its the perspective of the hearer brother. To the majority of the world, atheism is an out of the world, impossible, extraordinary claim. In 2013, unless I have got my figures wrong, around 53% of the world were either Quran or Bible believers, and then you get all kinds of other theists. Hindus are a huge population in the world but they dont come into conversation much because most of them are in one country. So most of the world are theists.

Both claims, theism and atheism are extraordinary claims to the recipient. You are right. I would add though that in some parts of the world there were discoveries that made it evident that in ancient times there were certain people who seem to be atheists. I know of one finding in a country called Sri Lanka where they discovered a tribe of people who lived on lizards for food called Niththawo. They dug up a lot of discoveries but there were no shrines, deities, zilch. Generally you do any kind of archeological research on any society you find gods and many signs of theism. So the absence of them are very good indications that they were atheists. Thus, atheism is supposed at least go back to 300 - 500 BC.

Also, Buddhism is very much misunderstood. If you go to the main or the most authentic and fundamental scripture of the Buddhists, it is the Tipitaka or the Thripitaka. To find theism in these books one has to do inference so its difficult to get theism out of these texts. Also, where ever there are small signs of theistic or deifying texts, they are out of character. As if its an advertisement in the middle of a movie. Out of character. So scholars like Gombrich and some others say that they must be latter additions. So bottomline is, originally, Buddhism seems to have been a very atheistic philosophy and focuses on self actualisation rather than salvation.

Anyway now I am derailing the thread it seems but I have typed to much to delete this.

 

[PureX]

God cannot be proven to exist because God precedes/transcends existence (by most common definitions of "God").

Also, the question is not being defined properly. If "God" exists, in what way? And how could we tell?

 

[firedragon]

Well, maybe some kind of miracle might do. Walking on water, turning water into wine. Or maybe taking some bread and a few fish and turning it into a million Fillet-O-Fish Happy Meals.

Or maybe more curing people. I can't even imagine how many people out there praying for a sick or dying loved one - sometimes even kids who get some dreaded disease at an early age. People pray and pray and pray, and yet, nothing happens. Some people don't even let their kids get medical care or blood transfusions, leaving it all up to faith and prayer.

If it was actually proven to work on a consistent and ongoing basis, then it might be worth taking note of and examining further.

What if God cant do any of that?

 

[exchemist]

Maybe this may not come as a high level discussion, but I just wish to know some views on "Can God be proven to exist". I am a theist, and I do personally believe that this proving God exists thing can never be done. I also believe that various people have varying concepts of God and most of us judge by our personal standards.

1. But as an Atheist, what would you think is evidence of a God to exist?
2. Also, as a theist, what would you accept as evidence?
3. And if you have the patience to write a little more, what is the concept of God you have in your mind?

Thank you in advance.

Bear in mind that "proof" is a setting a higher standard than we demand for the theories of science.

So a more reasonable question, in my view, would be whether there is any objective evidence for God's existence. I would have to answer "no".

It seems to me that the religious person believes in God for subjective reasons, to do with personal spiritual experience, aesthetics, upbringing, and so on.