Charlottesville Confederate statue removal blocked by judge

[Father Heathen]

Not because they wanted all the blacks free. Only a few fringe idiots called abolitionists wanted that.

So you see nothing ethically wrong with subjugating and enslaving other humans?

 

[Father Heathen]

Wanting to take down Confederate Statues is an attack on Southern white people. Get over it.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Proper hygiene and a good education is an attack on southern white people.

 

[Father Heathen]

Why? Is Robert E Lee holding a decapitated head?

No, but similarly he was an enemy who had a hand in atrocities. Important to remember, but not worthy of being honored with some tacky statue.

 

[Revoltingest]

Again, well documented history isn't going to magically disappear if contemporary statues (i.e. participation trophies for the losers) are moved off government property.

Classic straw man.
See post #38.

Also again, you don't need to commemorate or celebrate something in order to remember it. We certainly need to remember it, but it's certainly not worthy of being commemorated or celebrated, especially not with your or my tax dollars. So yeah, referring to it as "erasing history" is pretty damn dumb.

One might say that ignoring post #38 is "dumb".
But I'm too polite to go there.

 

[Revoltingest]

Even then, history can still be commemorated with noticeable monuments which aren't necessarily statues of individuals. We still have the battlefield monuments and memorials, and they're not going away anytime soon.

Or better yet...interpretive additions can be made.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Slavery was of course an issue. But not like the PC North was making it to be. And certainly not like the PC North during and after the war made it to be.

The North was concerned over slavery because it fueled the Southern economy, which was doing well. Not because they wanted all the blacks free. Only a few fringe idiots called abolitionists wanted that. The South was for slavery, not because they believed the black man needed to be enslaved, but because that was a major part of their economy. And slavery was a legitimate institution in that day. Protected by the Constitution.

KKK and Neo-Nazis in Charlotte came to protest the removement because blacks and minorities use this as a legal way to come against white people, especially Southern white people. The North has made blacks the enemy of the South. Blacks have bought into it and truly are now enemies of the Southern white people. But it is because they, the blacks, believe the smoke that has been blown up their backside all these years, by the North, or Federal government.

Thus the conflict.

Good-Oe-Rebel

Abolitionists were a "few fringe idiots" and neo-Nazis and the KKK supposedly have a point now?

Did somebody invent a time machine that allowed your post to come to us from the Iron Age or something?

 

[Revoltingest]

Abolitionists were a "few fringe idiots" and neo-Nazis and the KKK supposedly have a point now?

Did somebody invent a time machine that allowed your post to come to us from the Iron Age or something?

The iron age....you just made an enemy.

 

[Father Heathen]

Classic straw man.
See post #38.

It's not a "straw man". Claiming that it's an attempt to erase history remains nothing more than melodramatic hyperbole.

One might say that ignoring post #38 is "dumb".
But I'm too polite to go there.

I invite you to go there.

We use "erasing history" not in such an extreme sense,
ie, removing all info about what happened. Instead, it's
about making history less noticeable & present.

Oh come on now. There are other ways to ensure that it remains noticeable and present. Maybe statues for those who actually deserve celebration and commemoration?

 

[Father Heathen]

So, how come nobody's arguing over the removal of racist and anti-Semitic Malcolm X statues and memorials that are across the nation in various schools and public buildings?

Or is the sheer hypocrisy just way too much for some people?

If you're going to proactively remove icons of hatred from public funded places, then go all the way with it. Don't just stop at Confederate monuments.

Get that crap out of there, too. No one here is defending Malcolm X statues as far as I'm aware.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I agree with his decision. We can't erase history

Removing statues doesn't erase history because it happened, and it is recorded. The removal of an object doesn't automatically erase what had happened.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's not a "straw man". Claiming that it's an attempt to erase history remains nothing more than melodramatic hyperbole.

To entirely remove it from the public's eye, is indeed erasure.
Sequestered in textbooks....it's akin to anonymity.

Oh come on now. There are other ways to ensure that it remains noticeable and present. Maybe statues for those who actually deserve celebration and commemoration?

As I've oft suggested, the statues would benefit from additional interpretive displays.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

PC North

What is PC North? slavery was slavery it was chattel slavery and not indentured servitude because it was horrible and it wiped out any chance for me to know the true history behind my tribal lineage.

The South was for slavery, not because they believed the black man needed to be enslaved,

This is false there were many Southerners that believed the black man to be inferior justifying it through religion and anthropology.

KKK and Neo-Nazis in Charlotte came to protest the removement because blacks and minorities use this as a legal way to come against white people, especially Southern white people.

I'm glad you said this because not only because you have a traitorous picture, but because you actually associate a symbol of pain and agony, but you associate a racist symbol with white people. All whites aren't neo-nazi or KKK so how you stated this above sentence was associating whites with these historical racist groups.

 

[Revoltingest]

So you see nothing ethically wrong with subjugating and enslaving other humans?

Dang...you really look down on southerners.
Does this include the black ones too?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Wanting to take statues down is not an attack on white people. Get over it

Right....So apparently all whites (including immigrant ones) are tied to a confederate statue? You see, this is how low key bigoted people like to bait and **** others off to their cause by associating everyone as if these statues are truly a part of "white history."

 

[Stevicus]

Y'know, the ancient Egyptians used to do that. They would absolutely destroy the tombs, any references, whatever to a previous king or queen...or anybody else...that the contemporary folks didn't want to remember. Of course, they figured that doing so erased them completely, not just the memory, but still....

And it didn't work.

There was considerably more to the civil war than slavery. I hate to say so, but if it were slavery and slavery only, there would have been no civil war. I really wish that we would (the northerners) have gone to war for that cause....but no.

Slavery was important...but the complete and utter difference between the culture of the south vs. the north...'states' rights,' farming vs. manufacturing. Slavery was part of that very different culture. However, slavery had been a part of America for a very long time. Slavery comes in third or fourth in ALL the 'causes of the civil war' analyses.

For anybody to figure that slavery was the only...or even the main...reason for the war are going for an incredibly simplistic view of history. Remember; there are still people in the south who refer to the civil war as 'the war of northern aggression."

And do NOT give me the 'you are a racist and white supremacist' thing because I say this. NOBODY in my family has ever owned slaves, as far back as I can track...and I'm a Mormon. I track things back a very long time. We've been abolitionists when 'abolitionist' was a "thing,"

The main reason for the war was because 11 Southern states decided to secede from the Union and form an independent nation they called the "Confederate States of America." The Battle of Fort Sumter escalated hostilities.

Still, my sense is that in the early days, people didn't really expect it to last that long. They may have thought that cooler heads might prevail, that maybe they'll go back to the bargaining table and reach a compromise like the states always had in the past. But once blood was spilled, there was no stopping it.

Of course, the question still has to be asked: Why did the Southern states secede in the first place? That question is easily answered by reviewing the declarations made by the Confederate state governments in outlining the reasons for their secession from the Union. The issue of slavery figures prominently in those documents.

From the North's point of view, at least at first, it didn't matter to them why the South was seceding, as secession itself was bad enough.

So, from that standpoint, there is one indisputable historical fact about the Civil War which all sides can agree upon: The South did secede from the Union.

The real irony of it all is that, by seceding from the Union, the Southern states set in motion a series of events which led to the end of slavery far sooner than it actually would have happened if they had remained in the Union. If they had stayed in the Union, they could have tied the issue up in Congress, which would have paralyzed Lincoln's administration.

 

[columbus]

From the North's point of view, at least at first, it didn't matter to them why the South was seceding, as secession itself was bad enough.

So, from that standpoint, there is one indisputable historical fact about the Civil War which all sides can agree upon: The South did secede from the Union.

This is why it's referred to as The War of Northern Aggression.
The Confederacy didn't do anything much different than when The Founding Fathers seceded from England. The Confederacy didn't attack the northerners, they were attacked. The war was long and bloody because the southerners were defending their homes and families on their own turf.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

....the southerners were defending their homes and families on their own turf.

And slavery.

 

[MikeDwight]

Which of these secession did this poster read? John Brown may very well be in every state's secession. I'm not too sure. Robert E Lee hung John Brown as US officer. Period. This was at harper's ferry arsenal. Stonewall Jackson effected the largest surrender in US history at harper's ferry. period. I don't think anyone makes any of these actions without the present, clear, sense of total loss of their personal lives. this is stated. nobody listens. oh scared southerner writing things down that's funny.

 

[Stevicus]

Or better yet...interpretive additions can be made.

Yes, that might be good. Perhaps a lesson in the history of history, explaining that earlier historical perceptions of the Civil War led to the erection of statues of Confederate war figures.

I wonder if anyone has thought to put a statue of Heather Heyer in that park.

 

[MikeDwight]

Yes, that might be good. Perhaps a lesson in the history of history, explaining that earlier historical perceptions of the Civil War led to the erection of statues of Confederate war figures.

I wonder if anyone has thought to put a statue of Heather Heyer in that park.

Ya well worse than that, people don't think its an active outlook of politicians? There's no 'knights' in the confederate army. The 1900's 'lost cause' era of the politics associates 'the knightliest of the knightly' in terms of the gallant, the damsel, the weak protected, because of the shirtwaist factory fire in new York, and that's on our current monuments obviously.