Should Transgender Athletes compete in sports?

[Koldo]

Physical characteristics give advantages. This is true across athletic sport. Why are we only singling out physical characteristics of trans people - or of cis women who don't adhere to gender norms - as "unfair?"

Because for some reason it has been decided it would be unfair to have women competing against men.
But is that really unfair, and if so, why ? I think that to address this issue we need to start with this question.
Why is one competitive advantage ( being male ) considered unfair while others ( such as being taller depending on the sport ) not considered unfair ?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Because for some reason it has been decided it would be unfair to have women competing against men.

But Castor Semenya and trans women are women, not men.

 

[Koldo]

But Castor Semenya and trans women are women, not men.

Not biologically.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Not biologically.

Sounds like you could use this:

Genderbread Person v4.0 » The Genderbread Person

 

[Koldo]

Sounds like you could use this:

Genderbread Person v4.0 » The Genderbread Person

Is this all you can bring up to this conversation ?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Is this all you can bring up to this conversation ?

I haven't had enough coffee today to want to correct your misunderstanding of gender identity vs. physiological sex... particularly not if you're unwilling to educate yourself.

 

[Koldo]

I haven't had enough coffee today to want to correct your misunderstanding of gender identity vs. physiological sex... particularly not if you're unwilling to educate yourself.

I am well-educated on that distinction. Can you address what I have stated now ?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am well-educated on that distinction.

Not well-educated enough to understand the difference between "man" and "male," apparently.

Can you address what I have stated now ?

Nope.

 

[Koldo]

Not well-educated enough to understand the difference between "man" and "male," apparently.


Nope.

Holy moly. Did you really get so caught up on my usage of 'men' and 'male', which is not incorrect by the way even though it might not be the way you use those terms, that you refuse to talk about the actual subject of my post ? Okay. Up to you. Have a good day then.

 

[Koldo]

As for anyone else that might interested in a different point of view:

I find it a bit funny when people say that it is unfair, as if it meant much, for transgender women to compete in the same category as cisgender women. That is because, generally speaking, to be a top tier player in a highly competitive sport requires not only a lot of hard work but also a certain combination of physiological attributes that one must have lucked out to inherit. Try to be a short top tier basketball player or a tall top tier gymnast and see how that goes. Sports are, generally once again, not intended to be fair to everyone that wants to participate.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Let me ask a question based on two examples. Example 1. A man goes to the doctor and says he feels like a wpman trapped in a man's body The doctor says if the man pays a lot of money the doctoe can give him hormones and surgery to make him lok like a woman. The man pays and the work is done and he tells everyone he is now a woman. Example 2. A man goes to the doctoe and says he fels like a dog trapped in a man's body. The doctor says if he pays a lot of money the doctor can use drugs and surgery to make him lok like a dog. The man pays the money and the work is done and he starts walking on all-fours and tels people he is a gog. Now the question. How many of these two men are still men? How many are women? How many are dogs? If you say one is a man and one is a woman, why do you discriminate against be trans-species? Both simply changed their appearance, not their real self.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Not biologically.

If they're on hormone therapy or had surgeries - yes, they are.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Let me ask a question based on two examples. Example 1. A man goes to the doctor and says he feels like a wpman trapped in a man's body The doctor says if the man pays a lot of money the doctoe can give him hormones and surgery to make him lok like a woman. The man pays and the work is done and he tells everyone he is now a woman. Example 2. A man goes to the doctoe and says he fels like a dog trapped in a man's body. The doctor says if he pays a lot of money the doctor can use drugs and surgery to make him lok like a dog. The man pays the money and the work is done and he starts walking on all-fours and tels people he is a gog. Now the question. How many of these two men are still men? How many are women? How many are dogs? If you say one is a man and one is a woman, why do you discriminate against be trans-species? Both simply changed their appearance, not their real self.

Transsexualism has been shown to be a real medical condition by science. There's neurological, genetic and physical differences between transsexuals and cis people. Neurologically, our brains are more similar to those of the sex we identify as. We often have hormone issues before starting HRT, as well. Transsexualism may be an intersex condition.

Please show me the scientific evidence showing that it is possible to be "trans-species". Oh, you can't. So just stop trolling and posting utter garbage.

 

[Koldo]

If they're on hormone therapy or had surgeries - yes, they are.

Hair splitting is such a hassle. Can we just not devolve this into a debate about semantics ?

 

[Koldo]

Let me ask a question based on two examples. Example 1. A man goes to the doctor and says he feels like a wpman trapped in a man's body The doctor says if the man pays a lot of money the doctoe can give him hormones and surgery to make him lok like a woman. The man pays and the work is done and he tells everyone he is now a woman. Example 2. A man goes to the doctoe and says he fels like a dog trapped in a man's body. The doctor says if he pays a lot of money the doctor can use drugs and surgery to make him lok like a dog. The man pays the money and the work is done and he starts walking on all-fours and tels people he is a gog. Now the question. How many of these two men are still men? How many are women? How many are dogs? If you say one is a man and one is a woman, why do you discriminate against be trans-species? Both simply changed their appearance, not their real self.

Doesn't this mostly come downs to how you are defining terms such as 'dog', 'woman' and 'man' ?
What makes a dog a dog ?
What makes a woman a woman ?
And what makes a man a man ?

If all that counts is the assigned sex and species, then they will all be men even after the hormones and surgeries.
But how do you understand those terms ?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hair splitting is such a hassle. Can we just not devolve this into a debate about semantics ?

It's not "hair-splitting". I was correcting you when you made a factually incorrect statement.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Hair splitting is such a hassle. Can we just not devolve this into a debate about semantics ?

You were the one who made this about semantics:

But Castor Semenya and trans women are women, not men.

Not biologically.

 

[Koldo]

It's not "hair-splitting". I was correcting you when you made a factually incorrect statement.

I asked you not to devolve this into a debate about semantics. Didn't I ?

There was no correcting in your post. You simply use the word differently. That's all. You consider it sufficient to have a gender reassignment surgery and to display the secondary sex characteristics to be a biological woman. I do not consider that sufficient.

 

[Koldo]

You were the one who made this about semantics:

Why are you talking to me if you are unwilling to have an actual discussion ?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I asked you not to devolve this into a debate about semantics. Didn't I ?

There was no correcting in your post. You simply use the word differently. That's all. You consider it sufficient to have a gender reassignment surgery and to display the secondary sex characteristics to be a biological woman. I do not consider that sufficient.

And your opinion is just wrong. This is a matter of facts and science, not semantics. Much of what makes a male a male and a female a female comes down to hormones. Change that, and you're changing their biology since hormones are what the body runs on.