Ken Ham is ripping of Kentucky again:

[Subduction Zone]

The lying is representing a story about perceived value, which is different than actual value, as used in tax reporting.

Why does lying about Christians make YOU happy? I rarely ask you a question anymore, because instead of straight answers, you spout ad hom attacks, you know, like you're doing now against Ken Ham. YOU READ HIS MIND AND KNOW he's not an honest Creationist, he MUST be a liar.

That's closer to SLANDER than and ad hom to me and I'm unsure how you avoid an RF ban, you could bring down legal implications if Mr. Ham read the things you make up about his character--I won't tell him, but you should definitely lighten up on your lies.

No, there has been no lying about the value of the Ark park. Unless you want to accuse Ken Ham of lying. You should have read the link in the OP. The fact that it is under-valued came from the Hamster's own claims on how much was spent on the park.

And when it comes to Ken, action after action of his tells us that he is either a liar, a blithering idiiot, or a psychopath that should be locked up for his safety and that of society. Tell me, where have I lied once about that waste of DNA? I have never lied about Christians, but I see the creationists breaking the Ninth Commandment daily.

 

[Revoltingest]

The fact that it is under-valued came from the Hamster's own claims on how much was spent on the park.

How do you know this?
(And yes, I read the linked article.)

And when it comes to Ken, action after action of his tells us that he is either a liar, a blithering idiiot, or a psychopath that should be locked up for his safety and that of society.

Dang....that's over the top.
I sense some hate.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How do you know this?
(And yes, I read the linked article.)


Dang....that's over the top.
I sense some hate.

The people that started the lawsuit said where they get their future from.

And over the top? No, just accurate. And I do tend to hate child abusers.

 

[HonestJoe]

Ken Ham has undervalued his Ark Park by a factor of almost three. Isn't it amazing how some creationists do not follow the teachings of Jesus.

To be fair, property prices can be significantly impacted in areas at high risk of flooding.

 

[Revoltingest]

The people that started the lawsuit said where they get their future from.

How did you determine the real estate's cost?

And over the top? No, just accurate. And I do tend to hate child abusers.

What's behind this last claim?

 

[Subduction Zone]

How did you determine the real estate's cost?

The cost of construction is a minimal starting point.

What's behind this last claim?

Don't tell me that you are unaware of how Ken Ham mentally abused children.

 

[Revoltingest]

The cost of construction is a minimal starting point.

That is one method of valuation.
You said he's lying, so you must know....How much was it?

Don't tell me that you are unaware of how Ken Ham mentally abused children.

I haven't heard that.
How so?

 

[Subduction Zone]

That is one method of valuation.
You said he's lying, so you must know....How much was it?

I haven't heard that.
How so?

Ark Encounter - Wikipedia

"AiG officials said the final cost of the park at its opening exceeded $100 million, including $62 million from the Williamstown bond offering and $36 million from individual donations.[2] The second phase of the park construction is projected to commence in 2018 or 2019."

That is just a start.

And how could you be unaware of Ken Ham's mental abuse of children?

And in response to that:

 

[Revoltingest]

Ark Encounter - Wikipedia

"AiG officials said the final cost of the park at its opening exceeded $100 million, including $62 million from the Williamstown bond offering and $36 million from individual donations.[2] The second phase of the park construction is projected to commence in 2018 or 2019."

That is just a start.

You're not separating real estate costs from other business start-up costs.
The latter aren't assessed for property tax purposes.
Donations & financing are irrelevant to the park's property taxes.

Have you ever appealed property tax assessments?

And how could you be unaware of Ken Ham's mental abuse of children?

And in response to that:

Brainwashing is typical of both religion & politics.
To call it "child abuse" is merely your value judgement.
Would you say the same of Jews, Muslims, HIndus, Democrats, etc?

Hey, I think Ham's beliefs are loony too.
But let's not allow our disrespect lead to hate & wrongful demonization.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're not separating real estate costs from other business start-up costs.
The latter aren't assessed for property tax purposes.
Donations & financing are irrelevant to the park's property taxes.

Have you ever appealed property tax assessments?

Brainwashing is typical of both religion & politics.
To call it "child abuse" is merely your value judgement.
Would you say the same of Jews, Muslims, HIndus, Democrats, etc?

Hey, I think Ham's beliefs are loony too.
But let's not allow our disrespect lead to hate & wrongful demonization.

Seriously, how much of that $100 million, which again was only part of their costs, was for other parts of the startup of the business? Donations of land is land that still needs to be taxed. You are beginning to grasp at straws here.

And yes, brainwashing is child abuse. It is not on the same level as the overly personal attention of some Catholic Priests, but it still does harm those children. I just tend to have an overall dislike for extreme hypocrites and creationists tend to be in that camp.

 

[Revoltingest]

Seriously, how much of that $100 million, which again was only part of their costs, was for other parts of the startup of the business? Donations of land is land that still needs to be taxed. You are beginning to grasp at straws here.

Straws?
You're the one making the claims without cromulent figures to back them up.
I'm just showing you the complexities behind some simplistic assumptions.
Donating money or land to a business with real estate still doesn't affect
assessment of real estate.
Have you ever appealed an assessment, & dealt with their methods?

And yes, brainwashing is child abuse. It is not on the same level as the overly personal attention of some Catholic Priests, but it still does harm those children.

And yet you lumped together teaching children religion with raping them.

I just tend to have an overall dislike for extreme hypocrites and creationists tend to be in that camp.

I understand that, & sympathize.
But one should maintain equanimity, & be fair in criticizing them.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Straws?
You're the one making the claims without cromulent figures to back them up.
I'm just showing you the complexities behind some simplistic assumptions.
Donating money or land to a business with real estate still doesn't affect
assessment of real estate.
Have you ever appealed an assessment, & dealt with their methods?

First off, no, I have never appealed an assessment. That really does not have too much to do with this. And I have supplied sources. You merely did not like them. But here is another:

Grant Co. school board sues Ark Encounter over property taxes

'The school board also argued that Ark Encounter generated about $50 million in revenue in 2017, and “such an income would result in a fair market value of the property of $130,000,000 or more.” '

Now you have another metric. By its revenue, by its cost of construction it is obvious that the Ark Park is grossly undervalued. Tell me, how would you determine the value of a property?

And yet you lumped together teaching children religion with raping them.

I understand that, & sympathize.
But one should maintain equanimity, & be fair in criticizing them.

Really? Where did I do that? If anything I said it was not on the same level. And the fact is that misleading children with threats of damnation, which is always part of the Christian narrative, is abuse.

 

[Revoltingest]

First off, no, I have never appealed an assessment. That really does not have too much to do with this.

It tells me how much common understanding we have,
enabling me to limit the extent of my droning on & on
about the process.

And I have supplied sources. You merely did not like them.

It wasn't that I disliked your sources.
There was just inadequate info to justify your claims of dishonesty.

But here is another:
Grant Co. school board sues Ark Encounter over property taxes
'The school board also argued that Ark Encounter generated about $50 million in revenue in 2017, and “such an income would result in a fair market value of the property of $130,000,000 or more.” '

Gross revenue isn't a measure of capital value.
One must know the expenses, & calculate net profit.
From that one can determine value.
This is really basic stuff, so I'm surprised to see it ignored.
But then, lawyers, government employees, & anti-Christians
aren't necessarily educated or experienced in business or
finance.

Now you have another metric. By its revenue, by its cost of construction it is obvious that the Ark Park is grossly undervalued. Tell me, how would you determine the value of a property?

Real estate valuation can be done in many ways.
For financing or sale purposes, business profit from the real estate is significant.
For property tax assessment, it is less so because the real estate & the business
aren't the same entities. (A typical commercial appraisal uses multiple methods.)

Really? Where did I do that? If anything I said it was not on the same level.

You did lump them all together (in the immediately preceding posts),
your noting different levels of severity notwithstanding.

And the fact is that misleading children with threats of damnation, which is always part of the Christian narrative, is abuse.

We'll have to agree to disagree about that.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

You're not supposed to lie, but sometimes it's necessary to be economical with the truth. It could save your life!

Are you suggesting Ken Ham's life is in danger if he pays his fair share of tax? Because if not, what's your point?

 

[Revoltingest]

Are you suggesting Ken Ham's life is in danger if he pays his fair share of tax? Because if not, what's your point?

The poster was discussing marital relations with me.
The wise husband is the one who is "economical with the truth".

 

[Subduction Zone]

It tells me how much common understanding we have,
enabling me to limit the extent of my droning on & on
about the process.

It wasn't that I disliked your sources.
There was just inadequate info to justify your claims of dishonesty.

Gross revenue isn't a measure of capital value.
One must know the expenses, & calculate net profit.
From that one can determine value.
This is really basic stuff, so I'm surprised to see it ignored.
But then, lawyers, government employees, & anti-Christians
aren't necessarily educated or experienced in business or
finance.

Real estate valuation can be done in many ways.
For financing or sale purposes, business profit from the real estate is significant.
For property tax assessment, it is less so.
(A typical commercial appraisal uses multiple methods.)
This is based upon my experience with purchases, sales, financing, & property tax appeals.

You did lump them all together (in the immediately preceding posts),
your noting different levels of severity notwithstanding.

We'll have to agree to disagree about that.

Revenue is quite a reasonable metric. If one has a business that under performs then the burden of proof and the explanation lies upon the business. If you read the whole story you would have seen that AiG is trying to get the suit tossed out without supplying any evidence. At any rate, by all reasonable metrics it appears that the Ark Park is grossly under-valued. If Ken can make a case that it is not then he should do that. I would say at this point the burden of proof is upon him.

 

[Revoltingest]

Revenue is quite a reasonable metric.

No, because it's not a measure of net profit, which matters in valuation.

I can illustrate with a hypothetical example...
Let's say you want to buy a business....Acme Trailers.
You know they have gross revenue of $100,000,000 per year.
You expect a 7% return on your investment.
Do you have enuf info to determine how much it's worth?

If one has a business that under performs then the burden of proof and the explanation lies upon the business. If you read the whole story you would have seen that AiG is trying to get the suit tossed out without supplying any evidence.

I'm not addressing the quality of defense against the suit.
Just addressing your claims of dishonesty & real estate valuation.

At any rate, by all reasonable metrics it appears that the Ark Park is grossly under-valued.

Why?
No cogent analysis has yet been presented.

If Ken can make a case that it is not then he should do that. I would say at this point the burden of proof is upon him.

In civil court, tis wise for both parties to assume a burden of proof.
This is because judges are individuals, adding a random element.
But generally, a judge would expect more from the plaintiff.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, because it's not a measure of net profit, which matters in valuation.

I can illustrate with a hypothetical example...
Let's say you want to buy a business....Acme Trailers.
You know they have gross revenue of $100,000,000 per year.
You expect a 7% return on your investment.
Do you have enuf info to determine how much it's worth?

I'm not addressing the quality of defense against the suit.
Just addressing your claims of dishonesty & real estate valuation.

Why?
No cogent analysis has yet been presented.

In civil court, tis wise for both parties to assume a burden of proof.
This is because judges are individuals, adding a random element.
But generally, a judge would expect more from the plaintiff.

Now you are attempting to strawman the argument. We have various metrics, not just one, that tell us that the land is undervalued. And at least part of the burden of proof has been met by those stating that it is undervalued. I do not know of any evidence that points to the contrary. When only one side is presenting evidence which one do you go with?

It appears that a full and open reassessment is necessary. And in case you did not know the Ark Park and AiG are both 501(3)(c) corporations. That means that:

"All 501(c)(3) organizations must make available for public inspection its application for tax-exemption, including its Form 1023 or Form 1023-EZ and any attachments, supporting documents, and follow-up correspondence with the Internal Revenue Service.[33] The same public inspection requirement applies to the organization's annual return, namely its Form 990, Form 990-EZ, Form 990-PF, Form 990-T, and Form 1065, including any attachments, supporting documents, and follow-up correspondence with the Internal Revenue Service, with the exception of the names and addresses of donors on Schedule B.[33][34] Annual returns must be made publicly available for a three-year period beginning with the due date of the return including any extension of time for filing.[33][34]"


501(c)(3) organization - Wikipedia

They do not appear to have the rights to keeping their books private. Which makes sense. If one wants to claim a tax exempt status one needs to be able to prove it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Now you are attempting to strawman the argument.

Is that something that posters here say automatically
when disagreeing....like "false equivalency"?
To reciprocate...
I accuse you of the "lack of analysis fallacy".

We have various metrics, not just one, that tell us that the land is undervalued. And at least part of the burden of proof has been met by those stating that it is undervalued. I do not know of any evidence that points to the contrary. When only one side is presenting evidence which one do you go with?

You haven't presented any quantitative analysis yet.
And now you're introducing new the new topic of who
should present what in court filings. Not going there.

It appears that a full and open reassessment is necessary. And in case you did not know the Ark Park and AiG are both 501(3)(c) corporations. That means that:

I didn't know they were a non-profit.
(I suspect they wouldn't make one anyway.)
But as one, an economic value would still be relevant.

"All 501(c)(3) organizations must make available for public inspection its application for tax-exemption, including its Form 1023 or Form 1023-EZ and any attachments, supporting documents, and follow-up correspondence with the Internal Revenue Service.[33] The same public inspection requirement applies to the organization's annual return, namely its Form 990, Form 990-EZ, Form 990-PF, Form 990-T, and Form 1065, including any attachments, supporting documents, and follow-up correspondence with the Internal Revenue Service, with the exception of the names and addresses of donors on Schedule B.[33][34] Annual returns must be made publicly available for a three-year period beginning with the due date of the return including any extension of time for filing.[33][34]"


501(c)(3) organization - Wikipedia

They do not appear to have the rights to keeping their books private. Which makes sense. If one wants to claim a tax exempt status one needs to be able to prove it.

I'm not arguing that their books should be kept private.
The thread is about dishonestly assessing the property.
I'm the lack of argument for that claim.

 

[Goodman John]

Are you suggesting Ken Ham's life is in danger if he pays his fair share of tax? Because if not, what's your point?

If you read my comment in context with the post it was in reply to the meaning is clear.