David J
Member
Did they not recognize Him as earlier prophesied in the OT?
Christians consider Him as Lord, Jesus Christ.
Maybe the Jews will finally get it on His second coming?
I don't think anyone gets it.
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Did they not recognize Him as earlier prophesied in the OT?
Christians consider Him as Lord, Jesus Christ.
Maybe the Jews will finally get it on His second coming?
I don't know. Will this one also be an abject failure lacking the proper characteristics, traits and behaviors to qualify him? If so, I'll reject him also.
In the Shemoneh Esrei prayer, recited three times daily, we pray for all of the elements of the coming of the mashiach: (1) ingathering of the exiles; (2) restoration of the religious courts of justice; (3) an end of wickedness, sin and heresy; (4) reward to the righteous; (5) rebuilding of Jerusalem; (5) restoration of the line of King David; and (6) restoration of Temple service.
The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.
But it's only 5 volumes!Nobody here is paying for something you should easily be able to tell us yourself.
That you ask this hypothetical shows that you don't understand the Jewish concept of the Messiah.Supposing this one, for instance comes to fulfill all of the mission of the Messiah.
Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah
But supposing despite this, you didn't want to do some of the things demanded of you. Suppose for instance, you don't much care for secular Jews entering Jerusalem. Or suppose him being a great judge, you do not like his judgements? Would you think of an excuse why this wasn't the Messiah?
Let's give a theoretical. Donald Trump is a political leader, has ties with Judaism (I think his wife is Jewish), is charismatic, and a military leader. He probably knows some Jewish law. He has even tried to establish Jerusalem as capital of Israel. And he is definitely human. Yet suppose you disagree with his politics, being a liberal socialist, or maybe convinced that a Messiah ought to have more of a Jewish bloodline. Despite what he does for Israel, despite that God chooses, and not us humans (see David's own selection as to how that works), would you not reject him soundly as Messiah because we do not think him born under the Jewish line of David, and because he is not Jewish? It's possible that even if a man like this does everything he can to restore the Temple, to rebuild Jerusalem, we'd focus on how we don't think he's the son of David. Well yeah, but David himself was chosen by God from what looked like much more worthy candidates. It's possible that one called "his son" is not actually at all blood-related, but in the same way elected by God.
Suppose I told you in advance that I was going to give you a present. And you believe from what you know of me (practically nothing) that I'm going to give you a pony. I said nothing of the sort, only a bunch of vague hints like "it's gonna be huge" and "I hope you will enjoy using it." So you unwrap this huge package, and find instead a treehouse. Will you say, "Well, this is a cool gift, I bet Samantha spent loads of money setting this up"? Or do you say, "There's gotta be a pony in there somewhere!"
Jesus tells a parable of a man who invites people to a party, and they all have excuses not to come. So he says, invite people from the street to come instead. Bottom line of what happened with Jesus. He wasn't what they were looking for, having a vision of a king, a ruler. So they made excuses why they couldn't follow him. So he picked people with no connection at all to God's chosen people.
If the Messiah comes to rule, will you find a similar excuse because he is outside your perfectly constructed norm? Because he doesn't look like Eliab, or Abinadab, or Shammah, or any of the main seven?
Your description of the fulfillment of prophesies is the standard Christian belief, but it remains subjective, and Jews have a distinctly different understanding of the same prophesies, based on excellent knowledge of Hebrew, and the traditions of Judaism.
I am not supporting the Jewish perspective necessarily, but like the different religions the claim my way is true and the rest false is far to common and unrealistic from the human perspective for any religion to have the only true interpretation of ancient scripture and prophecies
Like have you read the Quran?
It explains....
Why not?Jesus said He was the Messiah to the woman and what more is there to believe?
I can't believe Jesus would lie.
Still not read it yet, it is on my shelf...Have you read The Book Of Mormon?
Thanks, but I'm worried about my IQ being lowered if I were to see any more of those things he calls "answers". I understand where he's coming from, I do. He's talking to Christians who are already maybe not that intelligent for having decided to believe in the NT despite it's terrible argumentation to begin with. So his arguments don't need to be that great and could afford to have a little smudging of facts. But as a Jew, I'd rather keep my mind sharp.
That you ask this hypothetical shows that you don't understand the Jewish concept of the Messiah.
I don't have to provide context. It isn't my job to teach you. The hypothetical you presented was impossible on its face and is all the proof anyone who understands the concepts needs.And if you answer a question without providing any context as to how it's wrong, I'm gonna say you don't either.
I just need to take a moment to finish laughing at the stupidity of your claiming to learn about Jews by watching Fiddler. Was this the play or the movie? I mean, if you are going to learn about a complex and ancient religion, I would think you would do so from a play, right?I understand enough of Jews from Fiddler on the Roof to understand that outsiders holding a key place in their prophecy is anathema to them.
Yeah...no.They build walls to split their cities into sacred and profane, Jew and outsider.
You know the Hods? They live right near me. I didn't see you at the aufruf this past Shabbos.But I know enough of Hod to know that he doesn't operate 100% like his followers.
What are you even talking about? Moses wasn't a murderer. He had a speech issue but God chose him anyway because that was part of the lesson. God uses the right person to get to the right end. You don't have to like it, but your reaction just means that you don't understand the point.That he doesn't choose people as they would expect. Was Moses the best person for the job? Uhhh well, he was a murderer and he was slow of speech. Samson basically hung around Philistines (making him by all accounts a traitor) and he broke basically all his Nazirite vows. God has a long, long history of using flawef ppl to preach to a broken world.
What does being a Jew have to do with anything? An Arab cab driver helped me out when I was 13.You'd be quick, I imagine, to dismiss the guy I picked in the scenario. But maybe you should read about Cyrus in Isaiah 45. Despite not being a Jew, he was an ally of the Jews, and helped them achieve many of their goals.
Um, who cares?Jesus repeatedly says that the kingdom will come as a thief in the night, using a bridegroom and maids with lanterns in many cases.
You seem to know a lot about the Bible, can you explain this verse to me please?Did they not recognize Him as earlier prophesied in the OT?
Christians consider Him as Lord, Jesus Christ.
Maybe the Jews will finally get it on His second coming?
It's not a matter of lying. Obviously Jesus himself believed he was the messiah. That doesn't mean he was. It's called being mistaken.Jesus said He was the Messiah to the woman and what more is there to believe?
I can't believe Jesus would lie.
It's not a matter of lying. Obviously Jesus himself believed he was the messiah. That doesn't mean he was. It's called being mistaken.
Reads in The Acts that a "great company of the priests were obedient to the faith"
Also, the tens of thousands of people who pressed against Jesus were mostly
Jews. These crowds protected Jesus from attempted arrest.
So yes, this was a Jewish thing.
Some got it, some didn't.
If you read the Gospels you see that the "veil of the temple was torn top to bottom."
That was a massively thick, heavy curtain.
These things either happened, or they didn't.
If they didn't happen then it's all a moot point.
But many prophecies point to the Jewish rejection of the Messiah and the loss of
their nation. Not sure how traditional Jews today come to terms with this.
Not exactly an argument.You're the mistaken one.
Did they not recognize Him as earlier prophesied in the OT?
Christians consider Him as Lord, Jesus Christ.
Maybe the Jews will finally get it on His second coming?
They were expecting a leader to save them from the RomanDid they not recognize Him as earlier prophesied in the OT?
Christians consider Him as Lord, Jesus Christ.
Maybe the Jews will finally get it on His second coming?