Sex before marriage?????

[Muffled]

Only you are using emotional terms here, fetus's are not babies. And of course unwanted pregnancy and hence abortion occur after marriage too.

Straw man.

Of course we all know that women have chickens come out of their wombs. Why would any one be so unscientific and superstitious to believe otherwise.

 

[Muffled]

You want to ask your version of god why it killed so many children, or encouraged their massacre?

I believe people messed up morally is a good reason. Somehow you made it here anyway. I have a theory about that.

 

[ChristineM]

Of course we all know that women have chickens come out of their wombs. Why would any one be so unscientific and superstitious to believe otherwise.

No matter how much some people dont like it, the law and medical definition will win over emotional sarcasm

 

[ecco]

I believe people messed up morally is a good reason.

You believe God killed so many children because people messed up morally. Interesting.

Let's see about the morals of your God.

• He is omniscient.
• He is impotent.
• He created Adam & Eve. Full-grown. With the capability of speech. With a God-given set of morals.
• God tempted them, knowing that they would succumb to the temptation because of the moral standards He instilled into them.
• He then, deceitfully, blamed them for succumbing to temptation.
• Years later he continued to find fault with them and horrifically drowned almost all men and women.
• He also drowned all children and all pregnant women thereby snuffing out the potential lives of all their fetuses.
• Just to put a little icing on the cake He also horrifically drowned all but two of all animal kinds.

Your God is the epitome of immorality.

 

[Trailblazer]

Very confusing. I thought God appointed Messengers. I thought after Baha’u’llah there could be no more Messengers for 2000 years. In any case, if Abdu’l-Baha can interpret Baha’u’llah 's words and writings, how do we know they are correct interpretations? If Baha’u’llah if the Messenger of God, why did he not write clearly enough so that further interpretation is not needed?

Because Baha’u’llah entrusted Abdu’l-Baha to interpret His Writings by virtue of His Covenant, and since Baha’u’llah was a Manifestation of God, He knew who He could trust. Nobody is obligated to read Abdu’l-Baha’s interpretations, they can just read what Baha’u’llah wrote.

I took some time to read...

Bahá'í/Bábí split - Wikipedia

In one of the tablets, which is commonly referred to as the "Will and Testament of the Báb", Subh-i-Azal is viewed to have been appointed as leader of the Bábis after the death of the movement's founder; the tablet, in verse 27, also appears to order Subh-i-Azal "...to obey Him Whom God Shall Make Manifest."[6]

Bahá'u'lláh claimed that in 1852, while a prisoner in Tehran, he was visited by a "Maid of Heaven", which symbolically marked the beginning of his mission as a Messenger of God. In 1863 as he was leaving Baghdad in the Garden of Ridván, he made his first public declaration to be Him Whom God Shall Make Manifest, the messianic figure in the Báb's writings, to a small number of followers.[13] This declaration started a new phase of leadership in the Bábí community

I will suppose that this Wikipedia page has multiple authors each with their own agendas.

I skimmed over the page and it appears to give an accurate account of what actually happened, not favoring one side over the other.

 

[Trailblazer]

You believe God killed so many children because people messed up morally. Interesting.

Let's see about the morals of your God.

• He is omniscient.
• He is impotent.
• He created Adam & Eve. Full-grown. With the capability of speech. With a God-given set of morals.
• God tempted them, knowing that they would succumb to the temptation because of the moral standards He instilled into them.
• He then, deceitfully, blamed them for succumbing to temptation.
• Years later he continued to find fault with them and horrifically drowned almost all men and women.
• He also drowned all children and all pregnant women thereby snuffing out the potential lives of all their fetuses.
• Just to put a little icing on the cake He also horrifically drowned all but two of all animal kinds.

Your God is the epitome of immorality.

God did not do any of that stuff.

 

[Trailblazer]

Geez. Pulling teeth.

Did you not understand that I was asking for the authors and their stories and what was written by Baha’u’llah and Abdu’l-Baha. Am I supposed to read everything that these two wrote and everything that Baha’u’llah and Abdu’l-Baha wrote to find what you think are the "stories [that] line up"?

I am still not sure what you are asking for. Are you asking for what the two mediums wrote about the afterlife that lines up with what was written by Baha’u’llah and Abdu’l-Baha?

 

[Trailblazer]

"Some truth to it". You do have low standards when it comes to supporting your beliefs.

I was not trying to support my beliefs. Nobody knows what the afterlife will be like so I was just trying to read what it might be like. The Baha’i Writings do not contain much detail about the afterlife so I went looking elsewhere but I do not FULLY believe anything except what is in the Baha’i Writings.

 

[Trailblazer]

"It would be a red flag for me if a psychic was well known and wrote a lot of books because that would indicate they were in it for the money."

"I am not going to judge by how many books he wrote."
​

Do you make comments and then immediately forget that you made them or do your views just change to try to counter my comments?

Did you miss all of what I said?

"It would be a red flag for me if a psychic was well known and wrote a lot of books because that would indicate they were in it for the money."

Michael Tymn is not a widely publicized psychic.

Sometimes my views do change as I continue in a dialogue. THAT is the whole point of having dialogues.
But I do not say anything to counter your comments since I am not trying to win any arguments.

 

[Trailblazer]

This guy...

Wellesley Tudor Pole - Wikipedia
Major Wellesley Tudor Pole OBE (born Tudor Wellesley Pole 23 April 1884 – 13 September 1968)[1][2] was a spiritualist and early British Bahá'í.

He authored many pamphlets and books and was a lifelong pursuer of religious and mystical questions and visions, being particularly involved with spiritualism and the Bahá'í Faith as well as the quest for the Holy Grail of Arthurian Legend.
​

So, a Bahai writes about death along the lines that Bahá'u'lláh wrote about death and you take that as evidence that he is indeed a true medium/psychic.

This is getting really embarrassing.

I am not embarrassed about anything. I have NO reason to think that just because Wellesley Tudor Pole was a Baha’i he had an agenda to fool people about the afterlife. That would be nothing short of paranoia. WHAT would be his motive? He explained why he wrote the book and I believe him because it makes sense.

 

[Trailblazer]

Wow, you do like to make nonsense assertions and then duck and dodge.

First, you asserted it is what atheists say to you, then, when challenged, you say it's implied.

You asserted:

• Many atheists say they would like to believe in God if they only had the evidence.
• This is practically all atheists say, at least to me.

Yet you can not produce even one quote from an atheist. Not one. So, why you would you make such a silly comment, to begin with?

The broader question is why do theists have such a need to hope that atheists secretly want to believe in a god? We don't. We gave up such childish fantasies long ago.

I do not remember why I originally made that comment and I am not going back through posts to find out. It does not matter now. I told you I was going to post a thread and find out what atheists really think. That is the best way to find out.

I can tell you that on the other forums I go on and even on this forum, atheists have told me they would like to believe in God if they had evidence. One of my best atheist friends on my forum even wondered why I would ask such a silly question. He wondered why I thought that anyone would NOT want to believe in God IF they had enough evidence.

 

[Trailblazer]

Let's remember that your original assertion was that many atheists have said to you that they "would like to believe in God".

Duck and dodge, duck and dodge, duck and dodge.

I do not care what I said before. I live one day at a time and I leave the past behind.

Are you worried that if I post the thread I might prove you wrong?

 

[Trailblazer]

This is another example of your ridiculous unsupported assertions. Please show where an atheist has challenged you to prove that God exists.

It is plastered all over this forum.

 

[ecco]

God did not do any of that stuff.

First off, my comment was addressed to a Christian.

Nevertheless, Bahais, who try to get you to believe that all gods are just one and that he sends prophets to earth to tell people about himself, completely disavow the writings of the prophet who wrote Genesis. That's very convenient.

If God tells us that we are to disbelieve what the prophets wrote 6000 years ago, then we must conclude that He will also tell us to disbelieve what ‎Bahá'u'lláh wrote 200 years ago. Therefore, there is no reason to believe anything that ‎Bahá'u'lláh wrote.

 

[ecco]

I am still not sure what you are asking for. Are you asking for what the two mediums wrote about the afterlife that lines up with what was written by Baha’u’llah and Abdu’l-Baha?

Y E S

But, at this point, don't even bother.

 

[ecco]

I was not trying to support my beliefs. Nobody knows what the afterlife will be like so I was just trying to read what it might be like. The Baha’i Writings do not contain much detail about the afterlife so I went looking elsewhere but I do not FULLY believe anything except what is in the Baha’i Writings.

Maybe you need to go back and read all your posts regarding psychics, mediums, and Bahai authors regarding your beliefs in heaven and the afterlife to refresh your memory.

You have gone back and forth so often it's ridiculous. That's why, in my previous response, I said just forget it.

 

[ecco]

Michael Tymn is not a widely publicized psychic.

Google Michael Tymn. In the first two pages, there are 20 references to him from 18 different sources. These include his blog, his facebook page, pintrest and Amazon. I'd say that's widely publicized.

Here again, you have bounced around all over the place trying to justify your beliefs.

I trust them if they agree with Bahai writings (At least one of your authors is a Bahai - of course, his writings are going to agree with Bahai writings).
I trust them if they are mediums, not psychics.
I trust them if they're not in it for the money
It's a red flag if they wrote a lot of books
It's a red flag if they are widely publicized and wrote a lot of books


What's your next cop out going to be. The bottom line is that you had criteria for trusting or not trusting them. Your own criteria show you shouldn't trust them. But, I'll bet you still do.

 

[ecco]

I am not embarrassed about anything. I have NO reason to think that just because Wellesley Tudor Pole was a Baha’i he had an agenda to fool people about the afterlife. That would be nothing short of paranoia. WHAT would be his motive? He explained why he wrote the book and I believe him because it makes sense.

Such a silly and poorly thought out response.

Do you have an agenda to fool people about Bahai? You write about it and defend it constantly here on RF. Is your motive any different from his?

He wrote what he wrote because he was a believer just like you. He was also a believer in and wrote about King Arthur and the Holy Grail. Both of which he believed were real. Do you accept his writings/beliefs on these subjects as well?

 

[ecco]

I do not remember why I originally made that comment and I am not going back through posts to find out. It does not matter now.

Right, that's the beauty of the Duck and Dodge strategy. Do it long enough and hope no one will remember the original untruthful comment that started the whole conversation.

I can tell you that on the other forums I go on and even on this forum, atheists have told me they would like to believe in God if they had evidence.

Well, here you just said it again: atheists have told me [you] they would like to believe in God.

In all the days and posts since your first made that assertion, you still cannot support it with any examples.

Maybe you could get a new email address, sign up with RF with a user name of RagingAtheist and write; "Hi. I am a raging atheist and would really like to believe in God. Can someone please help me!". Then you, as Trailblazer, could point to that comment as proof of your veracity.

Or...

I can tell you that on the other forums I go on and even on this forum, atheists have told me they would like to believe in God if they had evidence. One of my best atheist friends on my forum even wondered why I would ask such a silly question. He wondered why I thought that anyone would NOT want to believe in God IF they had enough evidence.

... you could have your atheist friend from your forum jump in here and say hi.


In any case, is there any difference between an atheist saying he would like to believe in God and anyone saying he would like to be able to fly like a bird. Fantasies are usually stated with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

 

[ecco]

That’s why when atheists ask me to prove to them that God exists

This is another example of your ridiculous unsupported assertions. Please show where an atheist has challenged you to prove that God exists.

It is plastered all over this forum.

So you can't. Not even one. They are "plastered all over this forum" and you cannot show even one.

If there were a forum rule against making unsupported assertions you'd be very close to expulsion.