Is premarital sex moral or immoral?

[Spartan]

Faith without works is dead.

Yes it is. But works don't save you. Here's a primer for you on that:

Excerpt:

“If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something
to boast about – but not before God. What does the scripture
say? ‘Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as
righteousness.” (Romans 4:2-3)

"Initial saving faith is the precursor to works. Abraham was not saved (justified righteous) by performing works (note Genesis chapter 22), he was performing works of a Godly nature because he first was saved and regenerated by faith (Genesis 15:6). Works of a Godly nature are the result of our regeneration and salvation, not the cause of it. Faith by grace is the antecedent of works. It chronologically occurs first. Once the Holy Spirit indwells a believer at the point of salvation, He starts the process of Progressive Sanctification, and one of the effects of the indwelling Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5-7) is that of causing, or compelling a person, by a change of heart and mind and with the believer’s cooperation, to perform works of a Godly nature. James’ argument addresses that time period of a person’s life, following true salvation and regeneration, when good works are supposed to be in evidence. He is saying, “Now that you claim to be saved, we should be seeing some good works out of you. However, if these good works are not apparent, then your initial faith was probably not genuine, and you were never, either in the eyes of God, nor in the eyes of man, justified righteous.”

Justification by Faith – How believers are declared righteous by God

 

[Spartan]

I've heard this one before. It always comes off sounding like some kind of loophole for Christians to maintain atrocious behavior and still claim the high moral ground. Just because good works do not save you, does not mean that you are not supposed to do them.

I never claimed otherwise. You should review the post above that I did on that. Is premarital sex moral or immoral?

 

[JJ50]

I never claimed otherwise. You should review the post above that I did on that. Is premarital sex moral or immoral?

It is sensible.

 

[Muffled]

Hey everyone. I wanted to debate about whether or not premarital sex is moral or immoral. I will take the Catholic side since I am Catholic. We believe that premarital sex is immoral. We believe that it is gravely sinful which means that if it is done with full consent of the will and knowledge of the gravity of the sin, it becomes a mortal sin which can send you to Hell.

Anyway, we Catholics believe that sexual intercourse has two purposes: procreation and the union of the spouses which have to be one man and one woman as we don't believe in same-sex marriages. Premarital sex is often violating the first purpose as it is often contracepted sex. Premarital sex always violates the second purpose since the two having sex with each other are not married.

We believe that the Bible speaks out against premarital sex but I will not quote all of the citations from the Bible about it at this time.

So, what do you think? Do you think premarital sex is moral or immoral? Why or why not?

I believe I and the Bible and Jesus agree that it is.

I believe any sin can get a person thrown into Hell if it isn't forgiven. I don't believe God is ending anyone's life because of it.

I don't believe it is necessary if there is no procreation. It is still a covenant relationship.

I believe sex with the same gender is sinful and can get a person killed. However a covenant relationship between two members of the same gender without sex would not be a sin.

I believe contraception is not a sin.

 

[Muffled]

It depends on the people involved and the intent. But to give a simple answer: yes, it can be sinful. If it is selfish and self-serving then yes it is, it all depends on the intent

I believe the saying is that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. In my jail ministry I had a man justify stealing food so he could feed his family. Criminals are not always just because they made a mistake; sometimes they are because they have a criminal mindset.

 

[Muffled]

To me it's also "sinful" if someone in a marriage uses the other as an object for sexual satisfaction rather than loving the other person with self-giving love.

I would have a hard time calling any act based on self-giving love to be sinful no matter the appearance. I would have a much easier time calling something sinful if the basis of the act were selfish.

I believe relationships are not always perfect so they require a lot of forgiveness.

 

[SkepticThinker]

That old chestnut? Seriously.....who is the creator of science? Hint: it isn't humans.

One merely needs to know the difference between what science "knows" and what science "assumes" to know.

Who gave humans the intelligence to discover all the things that science studies?

If God had not created the world, what would science study? Did science give us a brain?...the ability to analyze data.....to figure things out by using evidence to come to valid conclusions?

It's definitely humans. We know for sure that humans exist.

No one bashes true and provable science......but we have to be able to distinguish between facts and suggestion.

You do.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Correlation doesn't equal causation though. Have studies actually been done which prove that abstinence-only education actually causes such problems or do we simply know that the problems are correlated?

"After accounting for other factors, the national data show that the incidence of teenage pregnancies and births remain positively correlated with the degree of abstinence education across states: The more strongly abstinence is emphasized in state laws and policies, the higher the average teenage pregnancy and birth rate. States that taught comprehensive sex and/or HIV education and covered abstinence along with contraception and condom use (level 1 sex education; also referred to as “abstinence-plus” [26], tended to have the lowest teen pregnancy rates, while states with abstinence-only sex education laws that stress abstinence until marriage (level 3) were significantly less successful in preventing teen pregnancies."
Abstinence-Only Education and Teen Pregnancy Rates: Why We Need Comprehensive Sex Education in the U.S

 

[Sand Dancer]

Yes it is. But works don't save you. Here's a primer for you on that:

Excerpt:

“If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something
to boast about – but not before God. What does the scripture
say? ‘Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as
righteousness.” (Romans 4:2-3)

"Initial saving faith is the precursor to works. Abraham was not saved (justified righteous) by performing works (note Genesis chapter 22), he was performing works of a Godly nature because he first was saved and regenerated by faith (Genesis 15:6). Works of a Godly nature are the result of our regeneration and salvation, not the cause of it. Faith by grace is the antecedent of works. It chronologically occurs first. Once the Holy Spirit indwells a believer at the point of salvation, He starts the process of Progressive Sanctification, and one of the effects of the indwelling Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5-7) is that of causing, or compelling a person, by a change of heart and mind and with the believer’s cooperation, to perform works of a Godly nature. James’ argument addresses that time period of a person’s life, following true salvation and regeneration, when good works are supposed to be in evidence. He is saying, “Now that you claim to be saved, we should be seeing some good works out of you. However, if these good works are not apparent, then your initial faith was probably not genuine, and you were never, either in the eyes of God, nor in the eyes of man, justified righteous.”

Justification by Faith – How believers are declared righteous by God

That just means that you can be a jerk but as long as you have said the "sinner's prayer," you're going up. That does not encourage people to be nice.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Yours? Is sure seems like you need a lot of help with your Biblical theology.

I have studied the Bible much more since leaving the religion than I did when I was in it, and that was a lot.

 

[Spartan]

That just means that you can be a jerk but as long as you have said the "sinner's prayer," you're going up.

Nuts. You have to be born again with the Spirit of God - the Holy Spirit - who helps the born again individual overcome sinful ways.

Have you ever studied "progressive sanctification"? I don't think you have. It's another topic missing from your theology.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Nuts. You have to be born again with the Spirit of God - the Holy Spirit - who helps the born again individual overcome sinful ways.

Have you ever studied "progressive sanctification"? I don't think you have. It's another topic missing from your theology.

But they don't because conservative Christianity is not really about acting like Jesus.

 

[Spartan]

But they don't because conservative Christianity is not really about acting like Jesus.

Were you ever born again? Did it change you?

 

[Sand Dancer]

Were you ever born again? Did it change you?

Yes, May 15, 1987. Unfortunately, I became more narrow minded, judgmental, and decided to vote Republican. I gave to only far right christian charities and tithed every week. I prayed all the time and read books by Pat Robertson and James Dobson. I was a perfect fundamentalist.

 

[Spartan]

Yes, May 15, 1987. Unfortunately, I became more narrow minded, judgmental, and decided to vote Republican. I gave to only far right christian charities and tithed every week. I was a perfect fundamentalist.

I mean, did it change you for the better? If it didn't you weren't born again.

 

[Spartan]

Yes, May 15, 1987. Unfortunately, I became more narrow minded, judgmental, and decided to vote Republican. I gave to only far right christian charities and tithed every week. I prayed all the time and read books by Pat Robertson and James Dobson. I was a perfect fundamentalist.

Liberals are as narrow-minded as I've ever seen. It's either their way or the highway.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Yes, May 15, 1987.

I mean, did it change you for the better? If it didn't you weren't born again.

Hmm, I did pretend to be holy around the unsaved. The thing is that being religious right does not make one better. If it did, they would act like Jesus. The Christian Left is much more like Jesus. But of course you won't agree because you only care about homosexuality and abortion. I remember those days. Ugh. I had a pretty nice view of Yahweh before I was saved. After that, somehow he was love but also a judge. I am reading a cool book by John Dominic Crossan about being able to take the Bible seriously and still be Christian. Very interesting.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Liberals are as narrow-minded as I've ever seen. It's either their way or the highway.

Dude, you need to get out. I used to be listen to everything Preacher Buford said too. Ugh. It's not liberals who are trying to make the country revolve around their religion.

 

[Spartan]

Hmm, I did pretend to be holy around the unsaved. The thing is that being religious right does not make one better. If it did, they would act like Jesus. The Christian Left is much more like Jesus. But of course you won't agree because you only care about homosexuality and abortion. I remember those days. Ugh. I had a pretty nice view of Yahweh before I was saved. After that, somehow he was love but also a judge. I am reading a cool book by John Dominic Crossan about being able to take the Bible seriously and still be Christian. Very interesting.

Was Jesus a liberal?

 

[Spartan]

Dude, you need to get out. I used to be listen to everything Preacher Buford said too. Ugh. It's not liberals who are trying to make the country revolve around their religion.

I've been to liberal churches. You need to respect God's Word. That's your problem. You have your own subjective views apart from God's, which is why you think conservative churches are evil. You are judgmental against them, and you don't like those who judge? Hello?