In God We Trust’ signs going up at public schools all over South Dakota

[Revoltingest]

Happened to my mom. And she worked for a hospital that took her taxes out of the gross.
The money was gone and a day later she got their letter saying they were going to take her money because my dad owed a tax he didn't know about from his last return as a self employed business.

Years ago when I was in my early 20's I can still recall reading of a senior citizen who had lived a good life, had grandchildren, and was being harassed by the IRS for back taxes. They threatened to take the home he worked to pay for and that he and his wife raised their kids in. His bank account of course.Everything.
He made news because his suicide note gave their harassment and threats as the cause.

And people think chip implants, a cashless society, is all a great technological evolution for our future.
I think those are likely the same people that can't be separated from their phone or they'll have an anxiety attack. Those one's that line three deep around the Apple store to buy the latest gadget that was made by slave labor in a foreign country.Slaves who can't afford the very phone they make for others.
Those consumers likely drive Hybrid cars.
"I'm going green. I'm reducing my carbon footprint. Yay, me!"

The perfect consumer demographic for Elon Musk's Nuralink implant of the very near future.
Elon Musk's Neuralink implant will "merge" humans with AI

Forget cashless. Stock up on silver and gold. Small silver pieces the size of a chicklet for those who remember that brand, are out now. Because when it comes down to going along to survive together and people refuse implants and scan bar code like tattoo's to access their cash or purchase items, they'll have to have a means to survive under the radar.

Ever watch that B movie with Stallone and Bullock starring? "Demolition Man". ? If not, see if your library has a copy.

Back to the OP topic.
That a 17 year history in Utah schools boasting , In God We Trust, is historic in itself we don't have any concerns that this latest South Dakota plan will falter or succeed if challenged by atheist anti-Christian activist groups like FFRF. Which violates their c3 tax exempt status on a regular basis and will be oh so surprised when they're a headline in that regard.

The ruling by the courts concerning currency doesn't let to be an exclusive to currency.
In God We Trust is a national motto that does not endorse religion.
I'm so glad I lived long enough to see anti-religious zealots finally defeated by more than one court in their zeal to erase Deity from the American landscape. American's are guaranteed freedom of religion. NOT freedom from religion.

• "Aronow v. United States," 432 F.2d 242 (1970) in the United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit The court ruled that:

"It is quite obvious that the national motto and the slogan on coinage and currency 'In God We Trust' has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion. Its use is of patriotic or ceremonial character and bears no true resemblance to a governmental sponsorship of a religious exercise."

• "Madalyn Murray O'Hair, et al. v. W. Michael Blumenthal, Secretary of Treasury, et al." 588 F.2d 1144 (1979) in the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit. Ms. O'Hair is (in)famous for successfully challenging compulsory prayer in U.S. public schools. The United States District Court, Western District of Texas, referring to the wording of the Ninth Circuit above, ruled that:

"From this it is easy to deduce that the Court concluded that the primary purpose of the slogan was secular; it served as secular ceremonial purpose in the obviously secular function of providing a medium of exchange. As such it is equally clear that the use of the motto on the currency or otherwise does not have a primary effect of advancing religion."

This ruling was sustained by the Fifth Circuit court. 1

• The Freedom From Religion Foundation, Inc. conducted a national survey which showed that "In God We Trust" was regarded as religious by an overwhelming percentage of U.S. citizens. They initiated a lawsuit on 1994-JUN-8 in Denver CO to have it removed from U.S. paper currency and coins. They also wanted it to be discontinued as the national motto. Their lawsuit was dismissed by the district Court without trial, on the grounds that "In God We Trust" is not a religious phrase! The Tenth-Circuit federal judge confirmed the dismissal, stating in part:

"...we find that a reasonable observer, aware of the purpose, context, and history of the phrase 'In God we trust,' would not consider its use or its reproduction on U.S. currency to be an endorsement of religion." 5

The U.S. Supreme Court declined to review all of these rulings. It might be embarrassing to them, because the motto also hangs on the wall at the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has commented in passing on the motto saying that:

"[o]ur previous opinions have considered in dicta the motto and the pledge [of allegiance], characterizing them as consistent with the proposition that government may not communicate an endorsement of religious belief." Allegheny, 492 U.S.

Federal bill signed into law:
A bill to reaffirm "In God We Trust" as the national motto, and the phrase "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance was passed with a 99% vote in the House, and unanimously in the Senate. Rep. Todd Akin, (R-MO) voted for the measure. Apparently he is unaware that the "Under God" phrase is a relatively recent addition to the Pledge. He said: "I think the Congress was expressing the fact that they support the recitation of the pledge as it has always been supported. I think they're further saying that there isn't any problem with the First Amendment." Historian David Barton, president of WallBuilders, said: "This bill has no effect on the 'Under God' controversies, because we have seen in a number of cases that when Congress does something, the Supreme Court almost feels compelled to tell them to back off and leave them alone." 8
http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm

I imagine that government will phrase the message differently....
“”We are The Fed. Lower your security software and surrender your
privacy. We will add your labor, diversity & wealth to the collective.
Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is racist.”

 

[SugarOcean]

I imagine that government will phrase the message differently....
“”We are The Fed. Lower your security software and surrender your
privacy. We will add your labor, diversity & wealth to the collective.
Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is racist.”

Resistance is futile already. All communication is federally owned and monitored. An array monitors keywords in on-line activity and of course emails. Our phones are not private. Landline nor cell. Our cars track us and can be controlled by the manufacturer who has installed that "safety and security" software we think keeps us protected.
Our appliances watch us, our robot vacuums send our home floor plans to the manufacturer. Satellites can watch everything we do.

And human census takers, since that's coming round again soon, can ask your neighbor your census questions if you're not home or refuse to answer the door.
One nation under surveillance.
Freedom in any country is precisely worded by law. And prosecuted for non-compliance.

Illusion.
Yes, it is all a sick freaking joke.
That's why we're fed religion and spirituality as a balm. Don't like the confines of the word, "religion"? Go spiritual and find confines that are transparent and yet still there.

Why would any atheist carp about our motto? They don't believe in God. Look around. Look where America is now relative to the era and generation pre-WW1. Look at where the world, the majority of which holds faith in something outside this reality.
Look where we are given all that trust. For the atheists they can say, doesn't look like it worked.
For the theists it can be said, must be a lot of trust in us to let it all go this far while God watches.

Enjoy the ride.

Spoiler: I don't happen to wear cross pendants, just as a fyi.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CbuK0-8XL._SL500_AA500_.jpg

 

[Revoltingest]

Why would any atheist carp about our motto? They don't believe in God. Look around. Look where America is now relative to the era and generation pre-WW1. Look at where the world, the majority of which holds faith in something outside this reality.
Look where we are given all that trust. For the atheists they can say, doesn't look like it worked.
For the theists it can be said, must be a lot of trust in us to let it all go this far while God watches.
Enjoy the ride.

Things look much better to me than they've been in years past.
While there might be some disagreement about what constitutes
progress, I see....
- Elimination of Jim Crow.
- Legal abortion.
- Legal gay marriage.
- No more forced prayer in public school (which I endured).
- Due process returning to universities.
- Stronger gun rights.
But I don't give the rise of atheism credit for these.
People of faith (not all, of course) have also advanced progress.

Why do we care about the motto?
It's for the same reason Christians would care if the motto were....
"God is a myth"

 

[SugarOcean]

Things look much better to me than they've been in years past.
While there might be some disagreement about what constitutes
progress, I see....
- Elimination of Jim Crow.
- Legal abortion.
- Legal gay marriage.
- No more forced prayer in public school (which I endured).
- Due process returning to universities.
- Stronger gun rights.
But I don't give the rise of atheism credit for these.

Why do we care about the motto?
It's for the same reason Christians would care if the motto were....
"God is a myth"

Why would an atheist care about the motto is a great question.When there is no God and atheists feel they are entitled to freely believe that, which they are, why aren't they reciprocal in letting those who trust in God believe as they will also.

Years ago when I was very politically active and well prior to SCOTUS 2018 decision I was actively promoting the 14th as an inroad for the constitutionality of gay marriage in very public gay activist circles.

It is unfortunate to find that homosexual who thinks because a Christian ascribes to scripture that they're opposed to civil rights. But that's the world we live in now.
Due process on Uni campus was long overdue.
Now transparency is the new issue in my view. Stop hiding the crimes against women, for example, because Alumni and others are more concerned about their campus becoming known as Rape-U. Of course, one can't help but notice, the survivors of such atrocities aren't the campus kids of those Alumni and others. Yet, sometimes, the offenders are.

Prayer will always be in public school. The PA system prayer was actually contrary to the scriptures. Matthew 6:7
In our school the principal led the prayer over the intercom. We were just expected to bow our head. Worked for me as it delayed leaving homeroom for first period algebra. See? As long as there is algebra in school there will always be prayer in school.

 

[Revoltingest]

Why would an atheist care about the motto is a great question.When there is no God and atheists feel they are entitled to freely believe that, which they are, why aren't they reciprocal in letting those who trust in God believe as they will also.

I'm not aware of any movement to prevent believers from trusting in their god.
The question at hand is different, ie, should the Christian motto be the
government's motto, despite the country having non-faith & many other faiths?

Note also there's history at work here.
In public school, my teachers led us all in Christian prayer. This was both
legal & widespread. Schools were Christian, & no other beliefs were voiced.
And later, they tried to draft me to go kill godless commies. Their religion was
potentially deadly to me. So I favor stopping creeping theocracy in its tracks.

Years ago when I was very politically active and well prior to SCOTUS 2018 decision I was actively promoting the 14th as an inroad for the constitutionality of gay marriage in very public gay activist circles.

Aye, and I was careful to note that believers like you get credit.

Due process on Uni campus was long overdue.

Liberals must bristle at the idea that Trump is the civil libertarian in this area, & they are not.

Now transparency is the new issue in my view. Stop hiding the crimes against women, for example, because Alumni and others are more concerned about their campus becoming known as Rape-U. Of course, one can't help but notice, the survivors of such atrocities aren't the campus kids of those Alumni and others. Yet, sometimes, the offenders are.

Justice will always be messy, inexact, & frequently failing.
All we can do is the best we systematically can.

Prayer will always be in public school. The PA system prayer was actually contrary to the scriptures. Matthew 6:7
In our school the principal led the prayer over the intercom. We were just expected to bow our head. Worked for me as it delayed leaving homeroom for first period algebra. See? As long as there is algebra in school there will always be prayer in school.

Prayer in school is fine with me.
I just don't want government & its employees leading it.

 

[SugarOcean]

I'm not aware of any movement to prevent believers from trusting in their god.
The question at hand is different, ie, should the Christian motto be the
government's motto, despite the country having non-faith & many other faiths?

"God" is subjective though isn't it? Religious people who worship as monotheists or polytheists can find accord with Deity categorized as, God.
That's where many Christians become confused when arguing the idea of trinity, or Triune deity, in the faith of the Christ. They envision "God" as a title for that which is separate in description to "Holy Spirit". However, in scriptures throughout the Bible Yahweh, YHWH, Adonai, are all also descriptive titles that pertain to God being Holy and a Spirit. One scripture even says one must therefore worship God in spirit.
While Immanuel, who was God in flesh,Immanuel="God with us", was also Holy Spirit God, who was the only one. And beside "him" is no other. (Scripture again)

My belief is, when God is a category, and there is no other, then any one who worships any god, gods , goddess, or goddesses, are still holding reverence and respect for the only one power within and of creation.
If God is therefore seen as a category, then trusting in the category of one's choice in a first amendment pluralistic free society is not the same as promoting any one religion.

Note also there's history at work here.
In public school, my teachers led us all in Christian prayer. This was both
legal & widespread. Schools were Christian, & no other beliefs were voiced.
And later, they tried to draft me to go kill godless commies. Their religion was
potentially deadly to me. So I favor stopping creeping theocracy in its tracks.

Oh, I know. I lived the history too.
Many if not all nations have a clergy that accompanies their warriors, or military into battle. America is not a Christian theocracy. If we were the first amendment would not be an unalienable civil right protecting citizens from their government and insuring religious freedom and free speech.

Now in public schools the diversity of youth is reflected in the diversity of student groups attending. Whereas parochial schools are of course religious exclusive in design.
Years ago a YT video showed a Muslim high school graduate standing during commencement ceremonies and praying toward the east. No one stopped him.
Religious freedom in public schools is far more prevalent today than in our time there. And yet, because America does have a Christian history it does not mean that the Christian faith should be compressed so as to allow diversity of beliefs for all in school.
Religious freedom should be one lesson guaranteed in public school by not making draconian laws that enforce one faith, or preclude any one or all.

Aye, and I was careful to note that believers like you get credit.

(hug) Thank you.

Liberals must bristle at the idea that Trump is the civil libertarian in this area, & they are not.

True. I don't think Liberals hairs have laid flat since it was announced he won the office. Imagine the amount of mousse when he wins re-election come 2020.

Justice will always be messy, inexact, & frequently failing.
All we can do is the best we systematically can.

Systematically can bring its own issues, as we know. While I do agree with what you've said there for the most part.

Prayer in school is fine with me.
I just don't want government & its employees leading it.

As I said, when they did it was against scripture.
And I agree. I would no more want someone invoking the Adhan anymore than a Muslim would want someone invoking Krishna. Prayer is when we talk to God and as such represents as a conversation that should be private.
I always bristle at public prayer. Whoever is leading it.

 

[Revoltingest]

"God" is subjective though isn't it? Religious people who worship as monotheists or polytheists can find accord with Deity categorized as, God.

"God" is the proper name of the Christian god.
Tis no coincidence that Christians were the ones who added "God" in 1954.
Would you be OK with changing "God" to "Allah", "Krom", "Odin", or "Cthulhu",
& then striving for the same broad monotheistic inferrance?
But what of multi-god theists, non-god theists, & atheists....are we all just
chopped liver? Living in a country for monotheists only?

That's where many Christians become confused when arguing the idea of trinity, or Triune deity, in the faith of the Christ. They envision "God" as a title for that which is separate in description to "Holy Spirit". However, in scriptures throughout the Bible Yahweh, YHWH, Adonai, are all also descriptive titles that pertain to God being Holy and a Spirit. One scripture even says one must therefore worship God in spirit.
While Immanuel, who was God in flesh,Immanuel="God with us", was also Holy Spirit God, who was the only one. And beside "him" is no other. (Scripture again)

My belief is, when God is a category, and there is no other, then any one who worships any god, gods , goddess, or goddesses, are still holding reverence and respect for the only one power within and of creation.
If God is therefore seen as a category, then trusting in the category of one's choice in a first amendment pluralistic free society is not the same as promoting any one religion.

Oh, I know. I lived the history too.
Many if not all nations have a clergy that accompanies their warriors, or military into battle. America is not a Christian theocracy. If we were the first amendment would not be an unalienable civil right protecting citizens from their government and insuring religious freedom and free speech.

Now in public schools the diversity of youth is reflected in the diversity of student groups attending. Whereas parochial schools are of course religious exclusive in design.
Years ago a YT video showed a Muslim high school graduate standing during commencement ceremonies and praying toward the east. No one stopped him.
Religious freedom in public schools is far more prevalent today than in our time there. And yet, because America does have a Christian history it does not mean that the Christian faith should be compressed so as to allow diversity of beliefs for all in school.
Religious freedom should be one lesson guaranteed in public school by not making draconian laws that enforce one faith, or preclude any one or all.

(hug) Thank you.

True. I don't think Liberals hairs have laid flat since it was announced he won the office. Imagine the amount of mousse when he wins re-election come 2020.

Systematically can bring its own issues, as we know. While I do agree with what you've said there for the most part.

As I said, when they did it was against scripture.
And I agree. I would no more want someone invoking the Adhan anymore than a Muslim would want someone invoking Krishna. Prayer is when we talk to God and as such represents as a conversation that should be private.
I always bristle at public prayer. Whoever is leading it.

I find all religious expression creepy.
But hey....we must be tolerant of people doing so while minding their own business.

 

[SugarOcean]

"God" is the proper name of the Christian god.

No, it isn't.

Tis no coincidence that Christians were the ones who added "God" in 1954.

1956 actually. The link I shared is very informative.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm

Would you be OK with changing "God" to "Allah", "Krom", "Odin", or "Cthulhu",

God is a category assigned to Allah, Krom, Odin and Cthulhu.

& then striving for the same broad monotheistic inferrance?
But what of multi-god theists, non-god theists, & atheists....are we all just
chopped liver? Living in a country for monotheists only?

One is free to add an apostrophe s when they're polytheists. I know many pagans who add an "s" to their paper money. I also know Dianic's who add "dess".

I find all religious expression creepy.
But hey....we must be tolerant of people doing so while minding their own business.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, it isn't.

Many of my Christian friends would disagree.
Bibles would too.

1956 actually. The link I shared is very informative.

God is a category assigned to Allah, Krom, Odin and Cthulhu.
One is free to add an apostrophe s when they're polytheists. I know many pagans who add an "s" to their paper money. I also know Dianic's who add "dess".

I note that they refer not to "a god" but to "God".
There is no prefix article denoting a category.
The 1st letter is capitalized as is convention for a proper name.
To be singular is another clue, clearly eliminating Hindu & other gods.

 

[We Never Know]

I want an Islamic person to sue for In Allah We Trust or a Native person to sue for In the Great Spirit We Trust or a scientist to sue for In Atoms We Trust or an atheist to sue for In Nothing We Trust, etc. The "Christians" are trying to be dictators. And they don't even know what Jesus said. I'm so sick of it. I'm so angry. Ok, love my enemies. I'll try but no guarantees.

Actually America isn't based on Islam, founded on Islam, or follows Islam.

 

[We Never Know]

FFRF will lose as per issued currency

I guess i don't understand what you mean. Care to elaborate?
Or are you saying since "in god we trust" has been on U.S. currency since around 1870's that poses a problem.

 

[Curious George]

They'll know all, & they have the power of the purse.
The IRS regularly swoops in to take all of someone's money in banks
when they suspect tax evasion. Innocent & guilty alike have their
personal & business affairs shut down.
For example, if you have a small business which makes regular cash
deposits, each of which is under $10K, but together add up to over
$10K in a 12 month period, this is a crime known as "structuring".
Few know of this, & innocently violate it.
(Btw, if innocent, one must still spend time & money to get it back.)

A cashless society allows for no Plan B when government ers,
or worse yet, decides to treat one as an enemy, & targeting one
with malicious intent. Sounds like China, eh.
Do we really want to give government such total power over us?

Half truth. You forget about the intent. One must intend to evade reporting requirements in order to be guilty of this crime. A person who simply has a small business and regularly makes deposits that together add up to over 10k in a 12 month period is not guilty of structuring.

 

[Neutral Name]

Actually America isn't based on Islam, founded on Islam, or follows Islam.

No, it is a country for ALL of the people including Hindus, Buddhists, Islamics, etc. So, if we are going to do something for one group, the Christians, we need to do it for the other groups, too. We, the people, is in our Constitution, NOT we the Christians. Many of the founding fathers were not Christians. Our country was founded on religious freedom. That freedom is not just for Christians but for all people of the United States. You are obviously not a patriot.

Read the below:

The Founding Fathers Were Not Christians - Freedom From Religion Foundation

 

[Revoltingest]

Half truth. You forget about the intent. One must intend to evade reporting requirements in order to be guilty of this crime. A person who simply has a small business and regularly makes deposits that together add up to over 10k in a 12 month period is not guilty of structuring.

You're not quite right, & must be thinking of criminal law.
With the IRS, one is guilty until proving oneself innocent.

 

[tytlyf]

Actually America isn't based on Islam, founded on Islam, or follows Islam.

Correct, America is based on secularism. Governed by a secular constitution from our founding. America isn't based on any religion.
Which is why god doesn't belong on the currency or in the pledge. These were added long after the founding.
People elect christians with the hopes of changing America into a theocracy governed by biblical law. Plenty of examples. So it's no surprise when you add a bunch of christians to congress that disregard the constitution they'll add religion anywhere they can get it. And their constituents approve of it. Same with the SCOTUS.

God = religion

 

[We Never Know]

No, it is a country for ALL of the people including Hindus, Buddhists, Islamics, etc. So, if we are going to do something for one group, the Christians, we need to do it for the other groups, too. We, the people, is in our Constitution, NOT we the Christians. Many of the founding fathers were not Christians. Our country was founded on religious freedom. That freedom is not just for Christians but for all people of the United States. You are obviously not a patriot.

Read the below:

The Founding Fathers Were Not Christians - Freedom From Religion Foundation

I'm saying christianity has been part of America since it became America. Christianity in America is like apple pie and baseball.
I didn't say those people don't live here now. But since they do should we also fly their flags at the white house and etc?

 

[We Never Know]

Correct, America is based on secularism. Governed by a secular constitution from our founding. America isn't based on any religion.
Which is why god doesn't belong on the currency or in the pledge. These were added long after the founding.
People elect christians with the hopes of changing America into a theocracy governed by biblical law. Plenty of examples. So it's no surprise when you add a bunch of christians to congress that disregard the constitution they'll add religion anywhere they can get it. And their constituents approve of it. Same with the SCOTUS.

God = religion

I agree god does equal religion. God and creator appear a few times in the declaration of independence and god/the devine is mentioned in the constitution of every state.
So IMO christianity has been in America since it became America and christianity in America is like apple pie and baseball.

 

[Revoltingest]

Actually America isn't based on Islam, founded on Islam, or follows Islam.

If we examine the Constitution, it isn't based upon Christianity either.
Compare the Bill Of Rights with the 10 Commandments....some conflict.

 

[We Never Know]

If we examine the Constitution, it isn't based upon Christianity either.
Compare the Bill Of Rights with the 10 Commandments....some conflict.

I agree. However christianity is the religion of America same as islam/muslim is the religion of say Afghanistan.

 

[SugarOcean]

Many of my Christian friends would disagree.
Bibles would too.

Great. Post the scripture wherein God says his name is God.

I note that they refer not to "a god" but to "God".
There is no prefix article denoting a category.
The 1st letter is capitalized as is convention for a proper name.
To be singular is another clue, clearly eliminating Hindu & other gods.

As a convention of a proper noun.
And yes, that's standard in Christianity too. It is easier than to refer to Yahweh, of Adonai, etc.. when we all know what we're speaking about as in, the God of our faith.
Other faiths have a singular god as well. The whole world isn't polytheist save for Jews, Christians and Muslims.