Activist atheism

[Willamena]

Lately I've been studying viewpoints of various atheists, and am disturbed at many of their radical agendas for society. They want to abolish religions, including home school and religious schools. Basically, they consider non-atheists as people not deserving of participation in society, because of viewpoints so obviously incorrect and untrue.

But considering that atheism merely assumes materialism and physicalism, explaining everything in terms of these, their hatred of spiritual beliefs seems unwarranted.

Ignoring atrocities by both atheists and religious, I don't see evidence that improvements to our world are all the result of atheism, and that religion holds us back.

First: materialism/physicalism can contribute to becoming atheist, but they are not assumed by atheism. It's entirely possible to be an idealist atheist.

Second: it's not atheism that will save us, but compassion.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I don't have any kind of Knowing. I am a skeptic, a global one. You confuse me with those who believe in that. I don't.

I've run into your... ahem... "skepticism". The majority of your posts? Certainly do fit within the "I know better-- and YOU DO NOT" category.

I remember one exchange when you were asked if you could be wrong.... your continued denial of that was ... informative.

 

[Jim]

I do not see any hatred of spiritual beliefs ...

Does that include religious beliefs? I’ve seen people denouncing and ridiculing religious beliefs, and people who believe them, sometimes in ways that looked hateful to me.

I do not think that atheists care what I believe.

Sometimes people hold all believers responsible for what some believers do. Sometimes people who do that call themselves atheists.

... given the disparity in numbers of atheists compared to the religious, it should be no surprise that extremism is numerically superior in groups with a religious basis.

Agreed.

 

[Audie]

Alright, I apologize. You did put a lot of thought into that, and it is a complex issue. But from what I know from everyone I personally know from the Tibetan community, they are not thinking they're better off at all. To imagine they think taking away their culture is a step forward for them, sounds like Chinese propaganda, like Americans dressing up Native Americans as "Civilized Tribes". Or "Operation Liberate Iraq".

China wants the area strategically. It's not about "liberating" them from a feudal system. And who the hell gets to choose that for another people? To assimilate them, means to control them. Calling it liberation, is just propaganda the government tries to spin it as in order to make people think it's a good thing, "for their best interests". What, they are the saviors of other primitive cultures?

BTW, my friend was one of those who fled Tibet during the Chinese invasion in 1959.

It us not our battle, you and me. I neednr get
huffy; I apologize.

Of courde PRC has its improved version.
Everyone does that.
Of course strategic geopolitics is it.
Of course a refugee looks back w tinted glasses.

Of course some things are better, some worse.
Better now?
One might similarly ask if Alabama is better off
after the Yanks invaded.

 

[Audie]

Does that include religious beliefs? I’ve seen people denouncing and ridiculing religious beliefs, and people who believe them, sometimes in ways that looked hateful to me.

Sometimes people hold all believers responsible for what some believers do. Sometimes people who do that call themselves atheists.

Agreed.

You needs a new topic.

 

[Audie]

I've run into your... ahem... "skepticism". The majority of your posts? Certainly do fit within the "I know better-- and YOU DO NOT" category.

I remember one exchange when you were asked if you could be wrong.... your continued denial of that was ... informative.

How much info does ya need to plot your graph?

 

[Windwalker]

One might similarly ask if Alabama is better off
after the Yanks invaded.

The Blacks living there would without a doubt think so. But I don't believe the Tibetan people believed that they were in slavery before their "liberation", unlike Alabama's minority populations.

The "positive" thing about it however, systems of government aside, is that Tibetan Buddhism which was largely hidden from the world has be now thrust out into it. It's considered one of the most advanced maps of human consciousness out there. Makes Western psychology look like it's still in diapers.

As the philosopher Ken Wilber said, "They spent a thousand years sitting in caves staring at the human mind creating the most sophisticated map of it there is out there, while technologically they are no more advanced than yak butter."

 

[Audie]

The Blacks living there would without a doubt think so. But I don't believe the Tibetan people believed that they were in slavery before their "liberation".

The "positive" thing about it however, systems of government aside, is that Tibetan Buddhism which was largely hidden from the world has be now thrust out into it. It's considered one of the most advanced maps of human consciousness out there. Makes Western psychology look like its still in diapers.

My point about Alabama is in no way less
valid for that.

As with Tibet, some win, some lose, and the
invaders write the history. More winners than
losers? Other way around? Data?

My understanding of Tibetan society / human
rights is that it was no place a person who had
"Been to Paris" would like, unless he is of the
1%.

Plus of course I am going to side with China
and Americans are going to feel duty bound
to take the opposing side.

Right?

 

[Audie]

Since you listed the Known Horse's Patoot, William Lane Craig as a "resource worth study"?

Everything else you may have to say, is now forever tainted, and cannot be trusted.

Only just now?

 

[Subduction Zone]

They, who?

You know THEM!!!

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Does that include religious beliefs? I’ve seen people denouncing and ridiculing religious beliefs, and people who believe them, sometimes in ways that looked hateful to me.

I admit that directly to specific religions and religious beliefs in general, I have seen much greater opposition and vigor. This is often in a defensive posture to people that are intent on forcing their personal views as answers to real world questions that they have no evidence for to make such assertions.

I may not agree with all approaches and I am not an authority assigned to establish how others express themselves, but I can relate that in my personal experience, I see this operate less on offense than on defense.

Sometimes people hold all believers responsible for what some believers do. Sometimes people who do that call themselves atheists.

This is true. There are some that do that. Even the best people make mistakes. Sometimes that places them with the worst of people too. This is also true of people with strong religious positions. Many of those cite atheists as responsible for some very great atrocities in history, even when those atrocities are not the result of atheism, but rather some political ideology, lust for power, fear or some other human frailty.

All I can say about atheists motivations for their atheism is the same as what I can say about believers motivations for their belief. If they tell me this is what they think and why, I have to accept that as the case. I have no way to discern the validity of another's personal beliefs and the only evidence I have is that they identify with something. I cannot challenge the basis, only the application.

People can believe as they choose and I consider that a universal right. However, when they proceed to apply that belief and expand it by fiat to others, then challenges can be asserted.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You know THEM!!!

Love that movie. Giant ants.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

First: materialism/physicalism can contribute to becoming atheist, but they are not assumed by atheism. It's entirely possible to be an idealist atheist.

Second: it's not atheism that will save us, but compassion.

What do you mean by idealist atheist?

Compassion is a shared character that needs to be shared more frequently.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I've run into your... ahem... "skepticism". The majority of your posts? Certainly do fit within the "I know better-- and YOU DO NOT" category.

I remember one exchange when you were asked if you could be wrong.... your continued denial of that was ... informative.

Interesting. My outsider view has been taking on a similar stance.

I find it a common thread that people assert that a position is weak because the person holding it cannot know, but that those same people asserting are implying they do know.

 

[ecco]

If we are engaging in social engineering (ie banning religion)

Who is engaging in social engineering (eg banning religion)?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I've run into your... ahem... "skepticism". The majority of your posts? Certainly do fit within the "I know better-- and YOU DO NOT" category.

I remember one exchange when you were asked if you could be wrong.... your continued denial of that was ... informative.

Some posters, I just do not bother to engage, because there seems no reason to do so. If they know nothing and claim I know nothing, what is there to discuss?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

What has all this to do with Welsh carrots?

https://www.google.com/search?q=carrot+in+welsh&oq=carrot+in+welsh

Tell me more about these Welsh carrots.

 

[ecco]

I’ve seen what looks to me like people saying or insinuating that the world would be better if everyone lost their belief in God. It might be only a few atheists saying that, and there are other people saying that besides atheists.

If there were no religion, there would be one less thing to divide humanity.

As John Lennon wrote:

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
...
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too

 

[ecco]

My answer to that, if anyone really thinks that, is Freethought Blogs, Elevatorgate, Atheism Plus, the Slyme Pit and/or The Orbit.

Thanks for the links. There is some good stuff there.

Florida county cannot ban invocations by atheists
Florida county cannot ban invocations by atheists
Thus, for example, some of the Commissioners and former Commissioners have testified unambiguously that they would not allow deists, Wiccans, Rastafarians, or, for that matter, polytheists to deliver prayers, and that they would have to think long and hard before inviting a Hindu, a Sikh, or a follower of a Native American religion. ​

 

[ecco]

I would also say too much attachment to what people think they know, that they call “science,” and to exactly the same behaviors related to the "protection" and spread of such beliefs.

Care to give some examples.