Everyone Who Claims Homosexuality is a Sin is Bisexual

[charlie sc]

For me, within my belief system, it is.

For those who do not share my belief system?

That depends entirely on what THEIR belief system teaches.

I just don't see why I should have to change MY belief system...or that the belief system itself should change, to make others happy. If you don't like it, find a belief system that agrees with you and be happy.

Either way, I'm not responsible for your (again, general 'you,') happiness or sense of 'sinfulness.'

I do believe that my belief system is right, of course. If I didn't, I'd find another belief system and then I'd think that THAT one was right. I would hope that this is true for everybody, because any other approach is the sheerest hypocrisy.

I believe that my belief system is right. I do not expect those who do not share it to abide by its rules, however.

I don't know how much you know about the LDS...but we have something called the '12 Articles of Faith.' They are a pretty solid statement of our basic beliefs, and unique among (at least, I have never found anything similar anywhere else) is the following statement:

Articles of Faith,
#11: “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”

Freedom of religion. Freedom of belief. Freedom of conscience.

We WILL try to convert you, but never at the point of a gun....or law. Indeed, the only time the church got involved in LAWS about this issue was the California Prop 8 campaign, where the church was attempting to defend itself against others forcing THEIR religious views upon US.

The church, after all not only did not object to, but was supportive of, the California provisions that gave gay couples every single right that heterosexual married couples had. It was only when the gays (and (i do remember this very well) decided that they were going to force us to recognize gay marriage IN OUR RELIGION and IN OUR TEMPLES that it balked. And yes, that IS what they wanted to do. I had many conversations with gay activists who came out and said precisely that.

And isn't that what THIS conversation is all about? You are doing the same thing here. You aren't content with me baking gay wedding cakes, photographing gay weddings, seeing gay marriages AS marriages legally. You aren't happy with my saying that gay marriages aren't 'sinful' if the participants don't honestly see them as sinful. You are insisting that I absolve you of sin AS A MORMON....even when you aren't a Mormon, will never be a Mormon, and don't agree with our beliefs.

Please read that Article of Faith one more time. Yes, the second half of it is vital; 'allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where or what they may."

Pay attention to the first half, as well. WE CLAIM THE PRIVILEGE OF WORSHIPING ALMIGHTY GOD ACCORDING TO THE DICTATES OF OUR OWN CONSCIENCE..."

You go be sinful...or not...according to your conscience. That is your right and your privilege. you do NOT have the right to insist that we follow YOUR rules within OUR belief system.

As in...get over yourselves. Go. Be happy. I don't HAVE to approve of your lifestyle. Only you do. Should you decide to convert to the CoJCoLDS, THEN you would have a problem, but as long as you aren't LDS, I don't see where any of you have the right to tell me that I have a 'sense of entitlement' because I would be sinning if I had sex with a man outside marriage bonds, and am not tempted to have sex with a woman outside those bonds.

What a bunch of absolute claptrap.

From what you said to me, as convoluted as it is, and correct me if I'm wrong, gay sex is a sin in the eyes of god and will be punished accordingly by god.
Reading your reply, I thought you were a moral relativist Christian, which would be weird, but after deciphering it a bit, I see you're still a moral absolutest, but more progressive and tolerant. Anyway...

I haven't checked further research into the linked study, but let's prima facie take it as fact and substantiated. Accordingly, people who outspokenly oppose homosexuality are more likely to be gay themselves and are aroused by homosexual acts. You understand this creates a massive conflict of interest? A straight person is not interested in these acts, whereas, a homosexual is. Assuming gay sex is an actual sin, when the closest homosexuals create stigmas and bad attitudes towards homosexuality and gay sex, they make the situation worse. If they are having issues with these desires, they should deal with it themselves and definitely not inflict suffering on others. I can think of numerous analogies where one's own problems are projected onto others and societal problems arise. Therefore, do you not think the best course of action is let homosexuals get married and do what they choose within the privacy of their own home? Why would a straight person care?

 

[Skwim]

So, if we could control ourselves and not turn this into a cheap God-bashing for a moment I’d appreciate it.

Hey! I didn't write the Bible. If by implication or assertion the Bible bashes god then so be it.

I don’t think “God wrote it.” That’s a disingenuous way of looking at the texts. People wrote it, and the people who wrote it wrote what they thought was best, according to their knowledge and mores.

Fine, you don't believe god had any hand in writing the Bible, Obviously then you have no dog in the fight, and shouldn't care one way or the other what is attributed to god in the OP..

That isn't his story, no matter how you spin it.

Of course it isn't. He has a message to sell.

.

 

[sojourner]

Hey! I didn't write the Bible. If by implication or assertion the Bible bashes god then so be it.

The Bible doesn’t bash God, either by design or implication. It’s your deliberately shoddy misinterpretation that draws that conclusion.

Fine, you don't believe god had any hand in writing the Bible, Obviously then you have no dog in the fight, and shouldn't care one way or the other what is attributed to god in the OP

You don’t believe that God had any hand in writing it, yet you pretend that you do. Then you write an OP as if YOU have a dog in the fight. It’s disingenuous.

 

[Skwim]

The Bible doesn’t bash God, either by design or implication. It’s your deliberately shoddy misinterpretation that draws that conclusion.

You don’t believe that God had any hand in writing it, yet you pretend that you do. Then you write an OP as if YOU have a dog in the fight. It’s disingenuous.

DUH! I only pretend because it's the only way to engage in a discussion about it. Is one expected to believe Super Heroes exist in order to discuss their abilities and exploits? How about book critics who delve into the rational of a fictional plot; think they have to believe all its elements are true? OF COURSE NOT.

And the crucial thing about the Bible is that it's believers and promoters are trying to sell it as true. And I, as a potential "buyer," am simply kicking its tires, so to speak. Don't like tire kickers? Then stop trying to sell the Bible and your religion.

Can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen and have tea with the choir.

.

 

[SugarOcean]

I can’t help what the ancients believed. But I don’t support a system that buys in to bigotry through the misplaced hubris of asserting “God said it’s ok to discriminate.”

Then it is probably a good thing you're an atheist. All religions "discriminate", as you call it.
Whereas in actuality with regard to the Judeo-Christian doctrine, God created one man and one woman so that the human population would reproduce itself and populate the world.
Homosexuality cannot accomplish this. That is why it is an aberration of that plan. It is also why males are not made to receive males in coitus. Nor are females able to reproduce as lesbians. It is contrary to nature when nature survives itself with replenishment of the species.

 

[SugarOcean]

So, for you, is gay sex sinful or not?

It isn't a personal matter with regard to what scriptures state. Homosexual sex is a sin.

 

[Road Warrior]

It isn't a personal matter with regard to what scriptures state. Homosexual sex is a sin.

I've seen South Texas rednecks condemning "homosexshuality" holding a Bible in one hand and munching down on a hot dog with the other.

 

[SugarOcean]

It is believed or perhaps known that ‘homo’ was from Greek and sexual was from late Latin, and the combination wasn’t first used until around the mid-late 1800’s. Leading many to ponder why that combination was inserted into script written much much longer ago.

That would be likely because those pondering such matters are first opposed to the scriptures that condemn homosexual sex. And they use semantics as an inroad to claim the bible never stated any such thing.

Fair Use/ copied and pasted here with Mr. Slick's permission

The word "homosexual" didn't appear in English Bibles until 1946
by Matt Slick

The homosexual community has raised the argument that the word homosexual never occurred in the Bible until 1946, thereby trying to demonstrate that homosexuality is not wrong; that instead, Christians have translated the Bible to make it suit their needs. Consider this quote from a pro-homosexual website.

"The word "homosexual" did not appear in any translation of the Christian Bible until 1946. There are words in Greek for same-sex sexual activities, yet they never appear in the original text of the New Testament." (http://www.pflagupstatesc.org/statistics.htm)

But, we have to acknowledge that you don't translate a word from Hebrew and Greek into the English if there is no English equivalent. So, using the term "homosexual" in the English Bible could not have occurred until after the word had entered the English vocabulary.

So, when did the term "homosexual" enter the English vocabulary?

• "In English the word homosexual was first used in 1892 in the English translation of Krafft-Ebing's "Psychopathia sexualis" which was a reference work, in German, on sexual perversions. It first appeared in 1886 and was enormously popular, being reprinted about once a year!"(Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions)
• "homosexual (adj.) 1892, in C.G. Chaddock's translation of Krafft-Ebing's "Psychopathia Sexualis," from Ger. homosexual, homosexuale (by 1880, in Gustav Jäger), from homo-, comb. form of Gk. homos "same" (see homo- (1)) + Latin-based sexual. "Homosexual" is a barbarously hybrid word, and I claim no responsibility for it. It is, however, convenient, and now widely used. "Homogenic" has been suggested as a substitute. [H. Havelock Ellis, "Studies in Psychology," 1897] Sexual inversion (1883) was an earlier clinical term for it in English. The noun is recorded by 1895. In technical use, either male or female; but in non-technical use almost always male. Slang shortened form homo first attested 1929." (homosexuality | Search Online Etymology Dictionary)

Okay, so that explains when the word entered our vocabulary. Since 1892 it would take some time, in a less technologically advanced society than today, for the word to be disseminated throughout the population and appear in various forms of literature. That would explain why the English term "homosexual" did not appear in the Bible until 1946. But, does the Bible teach against the concept of homosexuality? For that, let's take a look at the English translations that use the term, and then we will examine the original language.

What does the Bible Say?

The places where the English word "homosexual" occurs in the Bible are found in two verses:

• 1 Cor. 6:9, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." (NASB, ESV, NIV, )
• 1 Tim. 1:10, "realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted." (NASB, ESV)

In Each case, the Greek word used for 'homosexual' is ἀρσενοκοίτης, arsenokoites. Here is what it means according to Greek dictionaries:

• ἀρσενοκοίτης arsenokoítēs; gen. arsenokoítou, masc. noun, from ársēn (730), a male, and koítē (2845), a bed. A man who lies in bed with another male, a homosexual (1 Cor. 6:9; 1 Tim. 1:10 [cf. Lev. 18:22; Rom. 1:27]). Zodhiates, S. (2000). The complete word study dictionary : New Testament (electronic ed.). Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers.
• 88.280 ἀρσενοκοίτης, ου m: a male partner in homosexual intercourse--‘homosexual.’ οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι . . . οὔτε μοιχοὶ οὔτε μαλακοὶ οὔτε ἀρσενοκοῖται . . . βασιλείαν θεοῦ κληρονομήσουσιν ‘don’t you know that . . . no adulterers or homosexuals . . . will receive the kingdom of God’ 1 Cor 6:9–10. It is possible that ἀρσενοκοίτης in certain contexts refers to the active male partner in homosexual intercourse in contrast with μαλακόςb, the passive male partner (88.281). Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.). New York: United Bible Societies.
• ἀρσενοκοίτης (arsenokoitēs), ου (ou), ὁ (ho): n.masc.; ≡ Str 733--LN 88.280 male homosexual, one who takes the active male role in homosexual intercourse (1Co 6:9), specifically interpreted as male homosexual paedophilia (nab footnote); possibly a more generic term in first Timothy; sodomites (rsv, nrsv, nkjv), perverts (niv, neb, reb), practicing homosexuals (nab), homosexual (njb), (1Ti 1:10+), note: translations possibly use certain specific terms to infer or allow certain theologies. Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
• ἀρσενοκοίτης, ου, ὁ an adult male who practices sexual intercourse with another adult male or a boy homosexual, sodomite, pederast Friberg, T., Friberg, B., & Miller, N. F. (2000). Vol. 4: Analytical lexicon of the Greek New Testament. Baker's Greek New Testament library. Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books.

It is best to use an English word that accurately portrays the original. Since a new and more accurate word had entered the English vocabulary, it became the word of choice.

Let's take a look at the Merriam-Webster dictionary, 11th ed. Springfield, Mass, 2003:

• ho•mo•sex•u•al \ˌhō-mə-ˈsek-sh(ə-)wəl, -ˈsek-shəl\ adj 1892 1: of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex 2: of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex--ho•mo•sex•u•al•ly adv

Therefore, it is easy to see why the word "homosexual" was not used until later English translations. Once a more accurate English word existed, it was matched to the corresponding Greek word. Homosexuality is still a sin according to the Bible.

 

[SugarOcean]

I've seen South Texas rednecks condemning "homosexshuality" holding a Bible in one hand and munching down on a hot dog with the other.

That never happened.
No one condemns homosexshuality.

 

[sojourner]

Don't like tire kickers? Then stop trying to sell the Bible and your religion

When have you ever known me to “sell the Bible?” Stop Deflecting. I get what you’re saying. But you know well enough that you don’t have to play that game with me. I’d appreciate some real discussion. I know you’re smart enough to do that.

Cant take the heat then get out of the kitchen and have tea with the choir

The heat I don’t mind. Rat turds are a different matter.

 

[Kenny]

Of course it isn't. He has a message to sell.

.

LOL... you been peddling your message quite often. He had a life change.

 

[sojourner]

Then it is probably a good thing you're an atheist. All religions "discriminate", as you call it.
Whereas in actuality with regard to the Judeo-Christian doctrine, God created one man and one woman so that the human population would reproduce itself and populate the world.
Homosexuality cannot accomplish this. That is why it is an aberration of that plan. It is also why males are not made to receive males in coitus. Nor are females able to reproduce as lesbians. It is contrary to nature when nature survives itself with replenishment of the species.

Shows what you know. I’m a Christian AND a member of the clergy in a mainstream denomination. My denomination doesn’t discriminate.

Procreation has nothing to do with sanctioning homosexuality.

The reason why males aren’t supposed to have sex with each other has to to with that culture’s concept of shame and honor. Which is why female/female sex isn’t mentioned in Leviticus.

 

[charlie sc]

That never happened.
No one condemns homosexshuality.

You do. You consider gay sex a sin and homosexuals have gay sex

 

[Road Warrior]

That never happened.
No one condemns homosexshuality.

Glad you didn't say "No good Christian eats a hot dog".

 

[Road Warrior]

You do. You consider gay sex a sin and homosexuals have gay sex

I think she was commenting on my South Texas spelling: homosexshuality. Them South Texans ain't very edjukated.

 

[sojourner]

That would be likely because those pondering such matters are first opposed to the scriptures that condemn homosexual sex. And they use semantics as an inroad to claim the bible never stated any such thing.

Fair Use/ copied and pasted here with Mr. Slick's permission

The word "homosexual" didn't appear in English Bibles until 1946
by Matt Slick

The homosexual community has raised the argument that the word homosexual never occurred in the Bible until 1946, thereby trying to demonstrate that homosexuality is not wrong; that instead, Christians have translated the Bible to make it suit their needs. Consider this quote from a pro-homosexual website.

"The word "homosexual" did not appear in any translation of the Christian Bible until 1946. There are words in Greek for same-sex sexual activities, yet they never appear in the original text of the New Testament." (http://www.pflagupstatesc.org/statistics.htm)

But, we have to acknowledge that you don't translate a word from Hebrew and Greek into the English if there is no English equivalent. So, using the term "homosexual" in the English Bible could not have occurred until after the word had entered the English vocabulary.

So, when did the term "homosexual" enter the English vocabulary?

• "In English the word homosexual was first used in 1892 in the English translation of Krafft-Ebing's "Psychopathia sexualis" which was a reference work, in German, on sexual perversions. It first appeared in 1886 and was enormously popular, being reprinted about once a year!"(Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions)
• "homosexual (adj.) 1892, in C.G. Chaddock's translation of Krafft-Ebing's "Psychopathia Sexualis," from Ger. homosexual, homosexuale (by 1880, in Gustav Jäger), from homo-, comb. form of Gk. homos "same" (see homo- (1)) + Latin-based sexual. "Homosexual" is a barbarously hybrid word, and I claim no responsibility for it. It is, however, convenient, and now widely used. "Homogenic" has been suggested as a substitute. [H. Havelock Ellis, "Studies in Psychology," 1897] Sexual inversion (1883) was an earlier clinical term for it in English. The noun is recorded by 1895. In technical use, either male or female; but in non-technical use almost always male. Slang shortened form homo first attested 1929." (homosexuality | Search Online Etymology Dictionary)

Okay, so that explains when the word entered our vocabulary. Since 1892 it would take some time, in a less technologically advanced society than today, for the word to be disseminated throughout the population and appear in various forms of literature. That would explain why the English term "homosexual" did not appear in the Bible until 1946. But, does the Bible teach against the concept of homosexuality? For that, let's take a look at the English translations that use the term, and then we will examine the original language.

What does the Bible Say?

The places where the English word "homosexual" occurs in the Bible are found in two verses:

• 1 Cor. 6:9, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." (NASB, ESV, NIV, )
• 1 Tim. 1:10, "realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted." (NASB, ESV)

In Each case, the Greek word used for 'homosexual' is ἀρσενοκοίτης, arsenokoites. Here is what it means according to Greek dictionaries:

• ἀρσενοκοίτης arsenokoítēs; gen. arsenokoítou, masc. noun, from ársēn (730), a male, and koítē (2845), a bed. A man who lies in bed with another male, a homosexual (1 Cor. 6:9; 1 Tim. 1:10 [cf. Lev. 18:22; Rom. 1:27]). Zodhiates, S. (2000). The complete word study dictionary : New Testament (electronic ed.). Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers.
• 88.280 ἀρσενοκοίτης, ου m: a male partner in homosexual intercourse--‘homosexual.’ οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι . . . οὔτε μοιχοὶ οὔτε μαλακοὶ οὔτε ἀρσενοκοῖται . . . βασιλείαν θεοῦ κληρονομήσουσιν ‘don’t you know that . . . no adulterers or homosexuals . . . will receive the kingdom of God’ 1 Cor 6:9–10. It is possible that ἀρσενοκοίτης in certain contexts refers to the active male partner in homosexual intercourse in contrast with μαλακόςb, the passive male partner (88.281). Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.). New York: United Bible Societies.
• ἀρσενοκοίτης (arsenokoitēs), ου (ou), ὁ (ho): n.masc.; ≡ Str 733--LN 88.280 male homosexual, one who takes the active male role in homosexual intercourse (1Co 6:9), specifically interpreted as male homosexual paedophilia (nab footnote); possibly a more generic term in first Timothy; sodomites (rsv, nrsv, nkjv), perverts (niv, neb, reb), practicing homosexuals (nab), homosexual (njb), (1Ti 1:10+), note: translations possibly use certain specific terms to infer or allow certain theologies. Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
• ἀρσενοκοίτης, ου, ὁ an adult male who practices sexual intercourse with another adult male or a boy homosexual, sodomite, pederast Friberg, T., Friberg, B., & Miller, N. F. (2000). Vol. 4: Analytical lexicon of the Greek New Testament. Baker's Greek New Testament library. Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books.

It is best to use an English word that accurately portrays the original. Since a new and more accurate word had entered the English vocabulary, it became the word of choice.

Let's take a look at the Merriam-Webster dictionary, 11th ed. Springfield, Mass, 2003:

• ho•mo•sex•u•al \ˌhō-mə-ˈsek-sh(ə-)wəl, -ˈsek-shəl\ adj 1892 1: of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex 2: of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex--ho•mo•sex•u•al•ly adv

Therefore, it is easy to see why the word "homosexual" was not used until later English translations. Once a more accurate English word existed, it was matched to the corresponding Greek word. Homosexuality is still a sin according to the Bible.

And if you were to take the exegesis out to its logical end instead eisegeting a proof-text, you’d see that it’s a male noun, ascribed to the active partner. Again, it refers to males (in whom honor is embodied) treating another man shamefully. The active/passive relationship suggests an unequal relationship, either forcing oneself on young boys, or the rape of another man. It had nothing to do with loving and consensual relationships.

That’s because it was widely thought such relationships were impossible. The injunction is against inequitable and culturally shameful acts, and not against healthy and equitable relations. IOW: even with your “evidence,” it still doesn’t mean what you want it to mean.

 

[Road Less Traveled]

That would be likely because those pondering such matters are first opposed to the scriptures that condemn homosexual sex. And they use semantics as an inroad to claim the bible never stated any such thing.

Fair Use/ copied and pasted here with Mr. Slick's permission

The word "homosexual" didn't appear in English Bibles until 1946
by Matt Slick

The homosexual community has raised the argument that the word homosexual never occurred in the Bible until 1946, thereby trying to demonstrate that homosexuality is not wrong; that instead, Christians have translated the Bible to make it suit their needs. Consider this quote from a pro-homosexual website.

"The word "homosexual" did not appear in any translation of the Christian Bible until 1946. There are words in Greek for same-sex sexual activities, yet they never appear in the original text of the New Testament." (http://www.pflagupstatesc.org/statistics.htm)

But, we have to acknowledge that you don't translate a word from Hebrew and Greek into the English if there is no English equivalent. So, using the term "homosexual" in the English Bible could not have occurred until after the word had entered the English vocabulary.

So, when did the term "homosexual" enter the English vocabulary?

• "In English the word homosexual was first used in 1892 in the English translation of Krafft-Ebing's "Psychopathia sexualis" which was a reference work, in German, on sexual perversions. It first appeared in 1886 and was enormously popular, being reprinted about once a year!"(Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions)
• "homosexual (adj.) 1892, in C.G. Chaddock's translation of Krafft-Ebing's "Psychopathia Sexualis," from Ger. homosexual, homosexuale (by 1880, in Gustav Jäger), from homo-, comb. form of Gk. homos "same" (see homo- (1)) + Latin-based sexual. "Homosexual" is a barbarously hybrid word, and I claim no responsibility for it. It is, however, convenient, and now widely used. "Homogenic" has been suggested as a substitute. [H. Havelock Ellis, "Studies in Psychology," 1897] Sexual inversion (1883) was an earlier clinical term for it in English. The noun is recorded by 1895. In technical use, either male or female; but in non-technical use almost always male. Slang shortened form homo first attested 1929." (homosexuality | Search Online Etymology Dictionary)

Okay, so that explains when the word entered our vocabulary. Since 1892 it would take some time, in a less technologically advanced society than today, for the word to be disseminated throughout the population and appear in various forms of literature. That would explain why the English term "homosexual" did not appear in the Bible until 1946. But, does the Bible teach against the concept of homosexuality? For that, let's take a look at the English translations that use the term, and then we will examine the original language.

What does the Bible Say?

The places where the English word "homosexual" occurs in the Bible are found in two verses:

• 1 Cor. 6:9, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." (NASB, ESV, NIV, )
• 1 Tim. 1:10, "realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted." (NASB, ESV)

In Each case, the Greek word used for 'homosexual' is ἀρσενοκοίτης, arsenokoites. Here is what it means according to Greek dictionaries:

• ἀρσενοκοίτης arsenokoítēs; gen. arsenokoítou, masc. noun, from ársēn (730), a male, and koítē (2845), a bed. A man who lies in bed with another male, a homosexual (1 Cor. 6:9; 1 Tim. 1:10 [cf. Lev. 18:22; Rom. 1:27]). Zodhiates, S. (2000). The complete word study dictionary : New Testament (electronic ed.). Chattanooga, TN: AMG Publishers.
• 88.280 ἀρσενοκοίτης, ου m: a male partner in homosexual intercourse--‘homosexual.’ οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι . . . οὔτε μοιχοὶ οὔτε μαλακοὶ οὔτε ἀρσενοκοῖται . . . βασιλείαν θεοῦ κληρονομήσουσιν ‘don’t you know that . . . no adulterers or homosexuals . . . will receive the kingdom of God’ 1 Cor 6:9–10. It is possible that ἀρσενοκοίτης in certain contexts refers to the active male partner in homosexual intercourse in contrast with μαλακόςb, the passive male partner (88.281). Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.). New York: United Bible Societies.
• ἀρσενοκοίτης (arsenokoitēs), ου (ou), ὁ (ho): n.masc.; ≡ Str 733--LN 88.280 male homosexual, one who takes the active male role in homosexual intercourse (1Co 6:9), specifically interpreted as male homosexual paedophilia (nab footnote); possibly a more generic term in first Timothy; sodomites (rsv, nrsv, nkjv), perverts (niv, neb, reb), practicing homosexuals (nab), homosexual (njb), (1Ti 1:10+), note: translations possibly use certain specific terms to infer or allow certain theologies. Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
• ἀρσενοκοίτης, ου, ὁ an adult male who practices sexual intercourse with another adult male or a boy homosexual, sodomite, pederast Friberg, T., Friberg, B., & Miller, N. F. (2000). Vol. 4: Analytical lexicon of the Greek New Testament. Baker's Greek New Testament library. Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books.

It is best to use an English word that accurately portrays the original. Since a new and more accurate word had entered the English vocabulary, it became the word of choice.

Let's take a look at the Merriam-Webster dictionary, 11th ed. Springfield, Mass, 2003:

• ho•mo•sex•u•al \ˌhō-mə-ˈsek-sh(ə-)wəl, -ˈsek-shəl\ adj 1892 1: of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex 2: of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex--ho•mo•sex•u•al•ly adv

Therefore, it is easy to see why the word "homosexual" was not used until later English translations. Once a more accurate English word existed, it was matched to the corresponding Greek word. Homosexuality is still a sin according to the Bible.

I can understand that, that perhaps the correct word ended up being inserted into the Bible. And that according to the Bible, homosexuality is still a sin.

Ill still go according to what is scripted/written or has been scripted/written inside of me as my authority over the Bible, or it’s common interpretations by humans.

 

[dianaiad]

You neglected in your earlier posts to qualify your condemnation with “wrong for me.” Now you’re backpeddling?

No. I was very clear. I have ALWAYS been clear on this. You weren't paying attention.

Yes. It’s wrong inasmuch as that opinion is based on “biblical precedent.”

According to whom, and who cares?

And I’m only pointing out the hypocrisy of a Christian who bases discrimination upon biblical precedent.

No. You were accusing ME of having a 'sense of entitlement' because I am heterosexual and AS a Latter Day saint, believe that sex outside of marriage bonds is sinful, and that homosexual SEX is also sinful, since we do not accept same sex marriage in the same way we accept what heterosexual marriage can be.

you are insisting that I accept within my belief system the things YOU accept, and act according to the rules YOU prefer. Isn't that precisely what you are criticizing in other people?

A straight, cisgender identity that falls within the majority, who is able to enact that identity without fear of reprisal, disenfranchisement or judgment.


Why does it have to be hard? What can’t the system (church) do the very hard work of acknowledging that they’ve been wrong?

Because they aren't wrong. Just because you think we are doesn't mean we are.

The Catholics were able to man up about the flat earth.

That's nice.

Sorry; you’re in it. You chose that when you posted.

No, you chose to completely misread and misrepresent what I wrote.

And that, sojourner, isn't on me.

It’s not about belief. It’s about being treated as fully human. Your argument is no different than Jim Crow and separate but equal. It’s a cover up for bigotry.

And what you are trying to do to me isn't? I have news for you.

I am NOT attempting to enforce my beliefs upon you, or upon gays.

YOU, however, are attempting to enforce yours on me. Which one of us does that make 'discriminatory?"

I submit; not me.

 

[SugarOcean]

And if you were to take the exegesis out to its logical end instead eisegeting a proof-text, you’d see that it’s a male noun, ascribed to the active partner. Again, it refers to males (in whom honor is embodied) treating another man shamefully. The active/passive relationship suggests an unequal relationship, either forcing oneself on young boys, or the rape of another man. It had nothing to do with loving and consensual relationships.

That’s because it was widely thought such relationships were impossible. The injunction is against inequitable and culturally shameful acts, and not against healthy and equitable relations. IOW: even with your “evidence,” it still doesn’t mean what you want it to mean.

Actually, that would pertain to you. The bible is very clear that homosexual sex, for the semantic minded, is a sin. Always was. Always shall be.
Because God created one man and one woman to be fruitful and multiply. There was no creation that would allow one woman and one woman to do so. Nor was there for men.
You're throwing out a lot of copied text from other sources in order to make an invalid point concerning the particulars of this one.

 

[SugarOcean]

I can understand that, that perhaps the correct word ended up being inserted into the Bible. And that according to the Bible, homosexuality is still a sin.

Ill still go according to what is scripted/written or has been scripted/written inside of me as my authority over the Bible, or it’s common interpretations by humans.

What's written inside you?

 

[SugarOcean]

You do. You consider gay sex a sin and homosexuals have gay sex

Right over your head. You didn't actually read my reply to you.