Only the 'saved' will get into heaven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SalixIncendium]

That's one of the dumbest thing I've heard. You and everyone else share the same reality. You are just as bad as the ones who believe those things, ex: slavery, murder, rape, etc. There's no difference between you and them. Their beliefs had already effect you to the point where it made you abandon your own beliefs(If you ever had different beliefs) and accept theirs.

Let me ask you this, "what's the difference between someone who believes that slavery, owning another human being as property, is ok and someone who believes that there's nothing wrong with slavery?"

Unless you are living my life, experiencing what I experience, you are not sharing my reality. He's an exercise for you. If we share the same reality, tell me what's sitting on my desk as I type this. What color are the walls in my living room?

And setting up straw men does nothing to support your argument, so I won't be addressing them.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I have answered this already. God knows everything and we were given a choice. God knew what we were to choose, but it was still a choice to us and we chose it.

We both believe in Oneness and we have arrived at it from different ends. If you do not believe Brahma is perfection (note the capital P ) then that is up to you. Oneness is Perfection Oneness cannot be divided, split etc.

He did that, all the while knowing as to what will happen? Sapristi.
Your God is not oneness. He is a slave-driver and very jealous. See the second commandment.

 

[Windwalker]

Not at all.

Then you do agree that the teaching of a literal hellfire where God sends people to be tortured without mercy for ever and ever to a child can be traumatizing and leave scarring effects on their lives? You sounded like you didn't agree with that.

In my experience, people indoctrinate others, not out of cruelty, but because of their own indoctrination.

Child abusers are themselves typically victims of child abuse. Even if teaching your child about hell is part of an indoctrination, it can still abusive in effect, and in application depending upon how it is being taught, as threats for instance to terrify your child into being a good boy or girl and obeying your demands upon them. The indoctrination is comparable to the patterns and cycles of any negative beliefs and actions that can be passed on from generation to generation.

Yes, they may not be doing it maliciously, and I agree with that. But it's still abusive. Like female genital mutilation as a "norm". They don't mean to be cruel.

Should those who wish to or have overcome such indoctrination condemn those that have been indoctrinated themselves and choose to live in accordance with what they've been told be believe and believe they have no other choice?

I believe we should have compassion for those who are themselves victims of the system, and instead condemn the teaching and educate people how abusive it is to break that cycle, rather than justify as a norm.

For some levity and to make a point, here's a great little song that uses the F word, so be forewarned.

Spoiler: Hand of the Almighty

 

[usfan]

The more extreme Christians who espouse the unpleasant, you must be 'saved' dogma, believe that if you ask the long dead Jesus to come into you heart you will get into heaven, and everyone else, however good or decent, will end up in the fires of hell. So in theory someone as evil as Hitler could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven. Whereas a person who has spent there life helping others, but is not 'saved', will go to hell. CRAZY OR WHAT? A god who insists on that is a complete psychopath.

Yes.. ridiculing and mocking the beliefs of others is very enlightened...


Fortunately you have no bizarre beliefs, but stand on the pillars of Absolute Truth..



What is it with the overt religious bigotry, from the progressive indoctrinees? No sense of tolerance and freedom of conscience? Everybody has to believe the same, or face ridicule?
/shakes head/

 

[JJ50]

Yes.. ridiculing and mocking the beliefs of others is very enlightened...


Fortunately you have no bizarre beliefs, but stand on the pillars of Absolute Truth..



What is it with the overt religious bigotry, from the progressive indoctrinees? No sense of tolerance and freedom of conscience? Everybody has to believe the same, or face ridicule?
/shakes head/

I will challenge a belief which causes harm to others, like the crazy, 'you must be 'saved' or else' dogma, which can be very unpleasant when aimed at children and the vulnerable, it spoilt my childhood.

 

[Maximilian]

To the contrary it appears you are confused, Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 from the Jehovah’s Witness Bible says;

For the living know* that they will die,+ but the dead know nothing at all,+ nor do they have any more reward,*because all memory of them is forgotten.+6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.

If they were to be resurrected they would have more reward and they would still have a share in what is done under the sun (ie on earth according to the JW definition of resurrection).

And the multiple resurrections included in the Bible's historical record, including Christ Jesus' own resurrection by Jehovah God, lay bare the errors in your reasoning.

 

[JJ50]

Yes.. ridiculing and mocking the beliefs of others is very enlightened...


Fortunately you have no bizarre beliefs, but stand on the pillars of Absolute Truth..



What is it with the overt religious bigotry, from the progressive indoctrinees? No sense of tolerance and freedom of conscience? Everybody has to believe the same, or face ridicule?
/shakes head/

I have explained why I challenge the nastiness of extremist Christians as it is can be very abusive.

 

[usfan]

I have explained why I challenge the nastiness of extremist Christians as it is can be very abusive.

So let me get this straight..

You've had 'nasty!' people, who identified as 'Christians!' ..offend you in some way.

To get even, you attack ALL OF CHRISTIANITY, as a deadly human evil..

Isn't that a 'some, therefore all' fallacy?

Broad brushes do not paint good detail.

You've never met or known a 'nasty!' person that was of some other ideology? Only Christians?

 

[JJ50]

So let me get this straight..

You've had 'nasty!' people, who identified as 'Christians!' ..offend you in some way.

To get even, you attack ALL OF CHRISTIANITY, as a deadly human evil..

Isn't that a 'some, therefore all' fallacy?

Broad brushes do not paint good detail.

You've never met or known a 'nasty!' person that was of some other ideology? Only Christians?

I have no problem with moderate Christians who are Biblical literalists and who don't force their faith on others with threats if they don't convert. I will always challenge the, ' you must be saved, or else', mob as it is a highly unpleasant dogma with no evidence to support it, the Bible is NOT evidence.

 

[1213]

The definition of evil which I think applies to the god character, profoundly immoral and wicked. synonyms: wicked, bad, wrong, morally wrong, wrongful, immoral, sinful, ungodly, unholy, foul, vile, base, ignoble, dishonourable, corrupt, iniquitous, depraved, degenerate, villainous, nefarious, sinister, vicious, malicious, malevolent, demonic, devilish, diabolic, diabolical, fiendish, dark, black-hearted;

Only an entity with those characteristics would be sick enough to flood a whole planet, killing nearly all humans and animals!

Sorry, I don’t think that fits to God. I think it would be evil, if God would allow evil to continue forever and cause life to be eternal suffering for all.

 

[Maximilian]

The definition of evil which I think applies to the god character, profoundly immoral and wicked. synonyms: wicked, bad, wrong, morally wrong, wrongful, immoral, sinful, ungodly, unholy, foul, vile, base, ignoble, dishonourable, corrupt, iniquitous, depraved, degenerate, villainous, nefarious, sinister, vicious, malicious, malevolent, demonic, devilish, diabolic, diabolical, fiendish, dark, black-hearted;

Only an entity with those characteristics would be sick enough to flood a whole planet, killing nearly all humans and animals!

On what objective moral basis do you dare condemn anyone's moral values? Who made you God Almighty?

 

[Maximilian]

He did that, all the while knowing as to what will happen? Sapristi.
Your God is not oneness. He is a slave-driver and very jealous. See the second commandment.

Are you referring to Exodus 20:4-6?

 

[Aupmanyav]

".. for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation of those who hate me, .."

That 'he is jealous' has been changed in this translation.

 

[dybmh]

".. for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation of those who hate me, .."

That 'he is jealous' has been changed in this translation.

It's an interesting word. In Hebrew it's Kanawh. When I searched it only occurs 7 times in the Tanach. Each time it appears to be attached to a divine name. I imagine it's tricky to translate it into english, but it could be a title or an aspect of God. Something that is brought out during specific circumstances.

Question: Even if it is accuratley translated to jealous, is it a problem? Are there Hindu dieties who would assert themselves in a possesive manner?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Question: Even if it is accurately translated to jealous, is it a problem? Are there Hindu deities who would assert themselves in a possessive manner?

Hindu deities are seldom possessive. I would not say that they never are, but when they are, it is considered to be a fault by Hindus. Hindus do not expect their deities to be possessive, and the deities in the end make up with each other. As perhaps you know, Hindus are free to criticize/analyze their deities.

The story of Hari-Hara is one such example. Shiva and Vishnu (in form of Krishna) supported different factions and fought for them. In the end they realized their oneness (or you can say, Hindus combined them in the form of Hari-Hara, i.e., Vishnu-Shiva).

Harihara - Wikipedia (Vishnu with his attributes on left, Shiva with his on right)

"Shivasya hridayam Vishnu, Vishnoshcha hridayam Shivah"
Vishnu is in the heart of Shiva, and in the heart of Vishnu is Shiva)
Hindu Mythology - Wisdom of Hinduism: Shankara Narayan -- Form of Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu (Both are one )

 

[Lionel Refson]

He did that, all the while knowing as to what will happen? Sapristi.
Your God is not oneness. He is a slave-driver and very jealous. See the second commandment.

I do not believe in anything written after Gen 9:6 as I have now said to you 3 times.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, just like you, I do not believe in many things that Hindus believe in (the first being belief in existence of God/Gods).

 

[danieldemol]

And the multiple resurrections included in the Bible's historical record, including Christ Jesus' own resurrection by Jehovah God, lay bare the errors in your reasoning.

Rofl at considering the Bible to be a history book

 

[JJ50]

Sorry, I don’t think that fits to God. I think it would be evil, if God would allow evil to continue forever and cause life to be eternal suffering for all.

If god create everything as the Bible suggests, it created evil too.

 

[Shadow Link]

If god create everything as the Bible suggests, it created evil too.

Yeah, isn't there something about a tree in a garden containing such contents?