• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Only the 'saved' will get into heaven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JJ50

Well-Known Member
The more extreme Christians who espouse the unpleasant, you must be 'saved' dogma, believe that if you ask the long dead Jesus to come into you heart you will get into heaven, and everyone else, however good or decent, will end up in the fires of hell. So in theory someone as evil as Hitler could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven. Whereas a person who has spent there life helping others, but is not 'saved', will go to hell. CRAZY OR WHAT?:mad: A god who insists on that is a complete psychopath.
 

Firemorphic

Activist Membrane
KitKat_logo.jpg
 

Samana Johann

Restricted by request
Not speaking in regard of this particular Sect, householder JJ50 may refer to, but actually the state at death is very important for someone having not reached the stream of holiness yet. Even if one is leading a virtuous life, doing good, but at the moment of breaking up of the body holds wrong views, although his good actions will also have there effects later, might fall to hell. And yes, even if a mass-murder would by heart turn to the Noble Ones and the good teachings, reaching the stream, would be no more able to fall into a animal womb, or into a bad or hellish existence, state, designated toward liberation within most 7 existences. There is the famous story of Angulimala, the murder who became an Arahat.

In regard of ordinary people, if able to reflect on good Gods, on heaven ond good refuges at death, even if having leaded not so good life, but not made one of the 6 grave misdeeds (murder mother, father, an Arahat, harming a Buddha, splitting the community of monks or holding grave wrong views, they are headed to hell anyway and no chance to grow in the good Dhamma this existance), can expect a heavenly existing next, yet his other kamma will later ripe and he may fall from heaven to hell next. Like states in daily live, you might know. Feeling like in heaven, peng, down to hell right next morning.

That is why wise seek for reaching the stream, reaching "holiness", since nothing left to fear and so much suffering behind, more worthy then all treasures and Kingdoms in this world.

And it's good to hold always to the save bet.
 
Last edited:

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
In order to up my chances of getting into any Heaven - which I don't believe in, but hey, why take the risk (observing Pascal's advice) - I have decided to split off the troublesome, possibly nasty, often naughty, downright evil perhaps, side of myself and we won't be talking as one any more. I will not refer to 'it' subsequently and I won't discuss anything about 'it'. ('It' obviously was responsible for all the bad). 'It' has (wisely) decided to remain mute for eternity.

Will this work? And will 'it' get all my (perhaps deserved) punishments? :oops:
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
The more extreme Christians who espouse the unpleasant, you must be 'saved' dogma,
That's extreme? Or "more extreme?" They typically and rarely are violent at the level of believing basic tenants of their religion.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
The more extreme Christians who espouse the unpleasant, you must be 'saved' dogma, believe that if you ask the long dead Jesus to come into you heart you will get into heaven, and everyone else, however good or decent, will end up in the fires of hell. So in theory someone as evil as Hitler could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven. Whereas a person who has spent there life helping others, but is not 'saved', will go to hell. CRAZY OR WHAT?:mad: A god who insists on that is a complete psychopath.
I kind of feel like the more extreme Christians do a better job at convincing people to go to hell than the Devil is supposed to do.
Like, all the "saved" are these holier than thou racist, homophobic, sexist jerks. And the oh so exquisite reward is spending an eternity hanging out with these douches in Heaven. So quite often my instinctive reaction is, well if y'all are in heaven, then I will gladly dance my way into hell. Hot damn!
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
What if the only way to get to heaven is to eliminate suffering by not judging the views of others?
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
People should be judged if their views cause harm to others, which is the case with extreme Christians and Muslims.

Please share how the views in the OP have harmed you.

Who is it that worthy of passing judgment?

Also, please answer my question that you responded to, because you never did.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
The more extreme Christians who espouse the unpleasant, you must be 'saved' dogma, believe that if you ask the long dead Jesus to come into you heart you will get into heaven, and everyone else, however good or decent, will end up in the fires of hell. So in theory someone as evil as Hitler could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven. Whereas a person who has spent there life helping others, but is not 'saved', will go to hell. CRAZY OR WHAT?:mad: A god who insists on that is a complete psychopath.
What's a "deathbed conversion"?

Anyone who would suggest being saved is an easy thing hasn't got a clue.

The gospel is preached so that men may believe and respond in faith. However, there are many false gospels which can save no one. The sectarian churches teach a spurious God and a spurious Christ.

Jesus says eternal life is in knowing the Father, the one true God, and Jesus Christ, whom He has sent.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
Please share how the views in the OP have harmed you.

Who is it that worthy of passing judgment?

Also, please answer my question that you responded to, because you never did.

I had that garbage fed to me from birth, it spoilt my childhood. My evil paternal grandmother took great pleasure in describing the tortures of hell to me from the age of two, she beat religion into her own children the sadistic *****!! That is child abuse.:mad::mad::mad::mad:
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
What's a "deathbed conversion"?

Anyone who would suggest being saved is an easy thing hasn't got a clue.

The gospel is preached so that men may believe and respond in faith. However, there are many false gospels which can save no one. The sectarian churches teach a spurious God and a spurious Christ.

Jesus says eternal life is in knowing the Father, the one true God, and Jesus Christ, whom He has sent.

Jesus supposedly said a lot of things some of which weren't credible. He was a mere human like the rest of us, far from perfect.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
The more extreme Christians who espouse the unpleasant, you must be 'saved' dogma, believe that if you ask the long dead Jesus to come into you heart you will get into heaven, and everyone else, however good or decent, will end up in the fires of hell. So in theory someone as evil as Hitler could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven. Whereas a person who has spent there life helping others, but is not 'saved', will go to hell. CRAZY OR WHAT?:mad: A god who insists on that is a complete psychopath.

You do not need to be extreme to believe this. The Roman Church teaches that only the sincere believers, including those that sincerely believe unknown to the Roman Church, are saved and go to heaven.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I had that garbage fed to me from birth, it spoilt my childhood. My evil paternal grandmother took great pleasure in describing the tortures of hell to me from the age of two, she beat religion into her own children the sadistic *****!! That is child abuse.:mad::mad::mad::mad:

While I'm sorry this happened to you, I'm afraid that happened to far more than you, myself included. I've made the decision to respect their beliefs, as they exist in their reality, not mine. Judging them only harms me.

By the way, you've still answered none of my questions in my last two posts.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
You do not need to be extreme to believe this. The Roman Church teaches that only the sincere believers, including those that sincerely believe unknown to the Roman Church, are saved and go to heaven.

Just because they teach it doesn't mean it is true, as there is no evidence to back it up.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Just because they teach it doesn't mean it is true, as there is no evidence to back it up.

Nothing anyone says about anything is necessarily true, but it is a matter of fact teaching of the Roman Church detailed emphatically in the Catechism of the Roman Church.

To add most Christian churches teach that some version of sincere belief in Jesus Christ is necessary for 'Salvation.'
 
Last edited:

Unguru

I am a Sikh nice to meet you
The more extreme Christians who espouse the unpleasant, you must be 'saved' dogma, believe that if you ask the long dead Jesus to come into you heart you will get into heaven, and everyone else, however good or decent, will end up in the fires of hell. So in theory someone as evil as Hitler could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven. Whereas a person who has spent there life helping others, but is not 'saved', will go to hell. CRAZY OR WHAT?:mad: A god who insists on that is a complete psychopath.

Even though they're Christians and obviously not great ones, they're not lying.
 
Top