Lies and Phony Caricatures of Christianity

[usfan]

Anti-Christian? You have no idea who you’re dealing with, have you?

nor you. I can only reply to words on a screen, not any claims of expertise.

, speaking of evidence, perhaps you’d care to present some real evidence for the charges you’ve levied here?

I've not levied charges. I'm defending against the FALSE charges, slanderously levied at Christianity.

present your evidence that the assertion that there are errors in the Bible is a false narrative.

You are making the charge, the burden of evidence is on you. I can only dismiss unbased accusations as hostile and prejudicial.

I dare ya.

Right. I have to prove that the accusations are NOT true, while you sit back and accuse? Hardly. 'Presumption of Innocence' is in play, here, and you must evidence the charges, else i (and any rational, fair person) will dismiss them as hostile, false narratives, from an agenda driven accuser.

 

[Milton Platt]

I didn't really get into the 'some/all/none' qualifiers, but focused on the narratives, and offered a challenge to provide evidence for the charge. And, as these have been repeatedly presented in this thread, by SOME, it was an unnecessary distraction, whether some did all of the time, or all did some of the time, or none did none of the time.

Evidence can be presented to refute my claim that these are false narratives, but there hasn't been much of that..

I believe that in most of the cases, if one looked, one could find some Christians who thought most of those things, and atheists who thought some of those things. My point was to say that your generality is entirely too broad and in some cases probably unfalsifiable as a claim.

 

[usfan]

I believe that in most of the cases, if one looked, one could find some Christians who thought most of those things, and atheists who thought some of those things. My point was to say that your generality is entirely too broad and in some cases probably unfalsifiable as a claim.

No problem. I can only deal with one charge at a time, anyway, if it is brought up, as many have, here. It is a general thread, about general charges, or 'narratives', used to malign xtianity.

If someone does not believe a particular charge, great! I don't believe any of them. That is my point, that these are false narratives (or generalities), that are unfairly directed at Christianity in general, to demean it.

 

[oldbadger]

So, you believe paul was lying, and was not sincere. Whatever. It still refutes your claim that 'nobody!' would give their soul for another.

It is an absurd argument, anyway. And how can you claim to know that the writers were 'lying!'? You have no evidence to the contrary, just prejudicial opinion.

You clearly do not understand what Jesus said.
You cannot see it.
That's OK.
I tells me more about you.

How does the altruism of anyone, have any bearing on the validity or historicity of the nt manuscripts?

You're wriggling now.
I don't know a Christian who would give up their place in Heaven for all the rest of humanity to enter.
You have already written that you would not.
That's the bottom-line when it comes down to Christianity..... ultimately it's for self.

Many people HAVE DIED, or given their lives for others.. how can you claim nobody would?

Wriggling, still?
........ Christianity is all about getting self to heaven and not to infinite torture.

 

[oldbadger]

How can it be prophesy? Matthew was written AFTER the crucifixion.

Because it was referring to prophetic words spoken in the past.

You just have to decide whether they were spoke, or not. Your call.,

 

[oldbadger]

Excuses, excuses, excuses....

Can't help you. Recommend you submit all that to prayer.

And I cannot help you.
When asked for examples of affirmations you dig up a bunch of referrals, clinging to them in the amazing hope that they will turn in to positive full-on direct evidences.

I've already saud, if you believe then that's fine., but if you try to shove it down people's throats as certainty then you don't understand what a 'Faith' is. Simple.

 

[sooda]

Because it was referring to prophetic words spoken in the past.

You just have to decide whether they were spoke, or not. Your call.,

Please post the verses in Matthew that you are referring to.

 

[sooda]

I've made no claim of spiritual insight, and have stuck with reason and facts. ..in spite of the ad hom streams, psychoanalysis, false accusations, and smears, I've replied with (mostly!) good humor and patience. I am clearly more educated and knowledgeable on matters of the bible, than most here, but i don't toot my own horn. I correct, and refute the 'lies snd false caricatures' being promoted.

It was very kind of @Spartan to defend me from the ad hom attack from another poster, but we all know it will just continue.

I would be thrilled to debate the 'exegetical process', as well as hermeneutics and other matters of epistemology, but dealing with the lies and false narratives seems to occupy most of my posting time..

But "Biblically-challenged detractors", was the key phrase in his defense, not "spiritually acclimated." That was just a nicety. ..probably not heard much in these parts..

You often toot your own horn.

 

[usfan]

You often toot your own horn.

I don't claim any special privilege or expertise, or make arguments of authority. I quote others, and relay history and written records. I exhibit knowledge about the bible and history, and I'm not always groveling and masking myself in false humility. I catch bluffs, fallacies, and distortions presented as 'fact!'

If that is 'horn tooting!', then fine. I'll toot it.

When it comes to defending the Truth, and the integrity of Christianity and the bible, i don't just toot. I'll lean on the horn with a long blast of truth.

I am clearly more educated and knowledgeable on matters of the bible, than most here, but i don't toot my own horn. I correct, and refute the 'lies and false caricatures' being promoted.

..ya darn tootin'!

 

[usfan]

You clearly do not understand what Jesus said.
You cannot see it.
That's OK.
I tells me more about you.
You're wriggling now.
I don't know a Christian who would give up their place in Heaven for all the rest of humanity to enter.
You have already written that you would not.
That's the bottom-line when it comes down to Christianity..... ultimately it's for self.
Wriggling, still?
........ Christianity is all about getting self to heaven and not to infinite torture.

LOL!

'Wriggling?' You think I'm hooked on your transparent ad hom streams?
ROFL!!

You just want a pissy 'Atheists vs Christians!' flame war, to evade the topic.

Do you want to 'debate' the topic, or deflect with provocation? Your call. I can't refute ad hom, only return more ad hom, and that just derails the thread.. ..perhaps that is your goal?

All human motivations & desires have some kind of self interest. That is supposed to damn Christianity?

You miss the point. The sacrifice of Christ was the ultimate SELFLESS ACT, giving His life for those who were His enemies. I explained this once. You can believe whatever you want, but your 'interpretation' is not compelling absolute truth.

 

[usfan]

but if you try to shove it down people's throats as certainty

Who is trying to shove anything down people's throats?


Oh, yeah.. that would be you, demanding that everyone accept your bigoted, revisionist, disparaging accusations about Christianity.

Your dogmatic clinging to lies and half truths, spin and revisionism, to force a demeaning caricature of the only ideology that brings hope to humanity is blatantly hostile. Some of us will not bite, or eat any of the garbage you try to force down our throats. If you and your bobbleheaded cronies want to eat that crap, fine. Bon appetit.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't claim any special privilege or expertise, or make arguments of authority. I quote others, and relay history and written records. I exhibit knowledge about the bible and history, and I'm not always groveling and masking myself in false humility. I catch bluffs, fallacies, and distortions presented as 'fact!'

If that is 'horn tooting!', then fine. I'll toot it.

When it comes to defending the Truth, and the integrity of Christianity and the bible, i don't just toot. I'll lean on the horn with a long blast of truth.




..ya darn tootin'!

You appear to be conflating tooting your own horn with farting. I see you bandy about terms like " revisionist" but I rarely see you using scholars as support for your claims. And I don't remember any actual corrections.

 

[usfan]

You appear to be conflating tooting your own horn with farting. I see you bandy about terms like " revisionist" but I rarely see you using scholars as support for your claims. And I don't remember any actual corrections.

..bad memory, probably.. Or, maybe you don't bother to actually read my posts, but just launch into the anti-christian talking points kept handily nearby.

..but i do my fair share of 'tooting!' under the other usage of the term.

You think that's what @sooda meant?

 

[Subduction Zone]

..bad memory, probably.. Or, maybe you don't bother to actually read my posts, but just launch into the anti-christian talking points kept handily nearby.

..but i do my fair share of 'tooting!' under the other usage of the term.

You think that's what @sooda meant?

I read very few "anti-Christian" sources. You seem to conflate sites that correct some of the errors in the Bible with being against Christianity . If one can't own up to some of the most obvious errors in the Bible, then one can hardly claim to be a scholar.

 

[usfan]

A reminder:

1. Make your charge.
2. Support it.
3. It can then be examined, and a rebuttal offered.

I can only dismiss assertions and unevidenced accusations. If you really want to debate any of these charges, do it.

 

[sojourner]

nor you. I can only reply to words on a screen, not any claims of expertise.

It's got nothing to do with scholastic pedigree (although I'm reasonably confident in my conjecture with regard to "who knows more about the bible) ;-)
It has everything to do with who and what I am.

I've not levied charges. I'm defending against the FALSE charges, slanderously levied at Christianity.

You said I had an "anti-Christian agenda. That's "levying a charge."

You are making the charge, the burden of evidence is on you. I can only dismiss unbased accusations as hostile and prejudicial.

Right back at ya, Skeezix. You made the charge that the claim that the bible contained errors is a false narrative, propagated by anti-Christian progressive sheep. You need to prove that it's a false narrative. (In debate, the "NUH-UH!" fallacy doesn't count as evidence.) You'll have to do better.

Right. I have to prove that the accusations are NOT true, while you sit back and accuse? Hardly. 'Presumption of Innocence' is in play, here, and you must evidence the charges, else i (and any rational, fair person) will dismiss them as hostile, false narratives, from an agenda driven accuser.

Well... it seems that's what you've been doing. You accused progressive scholars of spreading a false narrative aimed at sullying Christianity. "'Presumption of innocence' is in play here, and you must evidence the charges, else I (and any rational, fair person) will dismiss them as hostile, false narratives, from an agenda driven accuser."

You have to prove that your accusations are true, or it didn't happen, Cochise.

 

[usfan]

I read very few "anti-Christian" sources. You seem to conflate sites that correct some of the errors in the Bible with being against Christianity . If one can't own up to some of the most obvious errors in the Bible, then one can hardly claim to be a scholar.

Care to present ONE alleged error? Quote the offending passage, then source the evidence that proves 'error!' Else, all you have is innuendo allusion, and loudly repeated propaganda.

 

[usfan]

It's got nothing to do with scholastic pedigree (although I'm reasonably confident in my conjecture with regard to "who knows more about the bible) ;-)
It has everything to do with who and what I am.

Oh, good! More horn tooting! Why should i be the only one who toots?

..or, maybe this is just flatulence . hard to tell the difference, sometimes ..

 

[sojourner]

If someone does not believe a particular charge, great! I don't believe any of them. That is my point, that these are false narratives (or generalities), that are unfairly directed at Christianity in general, to demean it.

Wait! You're conflating your charges of false narrative with the statements, themselves. That's not how it works. We don't believe that your charges about the statements are true. We do believe that there are errors in the bible.

I exhibit knowledge about the bible and history … I catch bluffs, fallacies, and distortions presented as 'fact!'

You've failed to do any of those things thus far.

When it comes to defending the Truth, and the integrity of Christianity and the bible, i don't just toot. I'll lean on the horn with a long blast of truth.

Your toot has all the charm and allure of a wet, juicy fart. It's loud, rude, and an unwanted guest at parties. And when it's said and done, it really doesn't amount to much.

You just want a pissy 'Atheists vs Christians!' flame war, to evade the topic.

That's what you started by claiming that the assertions are "anti-Christian." That's a fallacy that simply ain't true, and you used it to differentiate between yourself as a "True Believer (TM)" and anyone who disagreed with you. Take some responsibility.

Who is trying to shove anything down people's throats?

You are when you make baseless accusations without evidence.

 

[sojourner]

Oh, good! More horn tooting! Why should i be the only one who toots?

..or, maybe this is just flatulence . hard to tell the difference, sometimes ..

<Yawn> Ignore.