Questioning God's Morality

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The Bible doesn't condemn slavery anywhere.

Hebrew Slavery

Exodus 21 - New International Version (NIV) | Biblica

So if you are a MAN and HEBREW, you "only" have to be a slave for 6 years?

Yeah.... I stand by my statement: The bible fails to condemn slavery, anywhere.

 

[sooda]

So if you are a MAN and HEBREW, you "only" have to be a slave for 6 years?

Yeah.... I stand by my statement: The bible fails to condemn slavery, anywhere.

Exactly. The devil's in the details.

 

[sooda]

Exactly. The devil's in the details.

Blathering on about God's morality is undermined by the claim that scripture is God-breathed and inerrant. There's lots of hypocrisy in scripture, but not much "morality".

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Blathering on about God's morality is undermined by the claim that scripture is God-breathed and inerrant. There's lots of hypocrisy in scripture, but not much "morality".

Unless you permit the value of "moral" to have a negative sign.

Mayhap it was intended as a "Do Not Do This -- ever!" sort of guide?

 

[sooda]

Unless you permit the value of "moral" to have a negative sign.

Mayhap it was intended as a "Do Not Do This -- ever!" sort of guide?

Like God condemning Esau before his birth?

 

[Jumi]

Keeping the following two passages in mind.

Malachi 3:6
6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

2 Tim. 3: 16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
​

Then we can say that scripture that is not profitable for correction should not be considered scripture.​

1) God's pitiful sense of morality concerning slavery

Exodus 21: 1-2
1 Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing.

Exodus 21:7
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.

Exodus 21:20-21
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.​

2) God's dreadful morality concerning raped virgins

Exodus 22:16
“If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife.​

So, just what kind of god sanctions slavery, and condemns virgins to marry their rapists? Certainly not a kind and loving god.

I don't think such can be called god, but humans.

AND, why aren't Christians following his orders today?

They never followed those, because the New Testament has a different tone.

 

[ecco]

Yeah.... I stand by my statement: The bible fails to condemn slavery, anywhere.

NONSENSE - It's right there in the Ten Commandments

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall make no idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

Oh. My bad.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

NONSENSE - It's right there in the Ten Commandments

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall make no idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

Oh. My bad.

As for me? I refuse to respect a deity that demands adoration in the first four rules.

Ego, much?

 

[74x12]

If there was any truth in any of that, by now God would have taken all lands from all Governments.

Didn't England, France, Spain and Portugal sin (Commandment #8) when they invaded the Americas and killed most of the natives?

Didn't the American Government sin (Commandment #8) when it stole land from the natives?

Believe he's going to judge all nations. It's the mercy of God that makes Him wait. God loves all people and all nations unfortunately if they continue to ignore the warnings; then God will have to destroy them as sovereign state and give their land to others.

God warns and punishes nations with disasters and if they ignore it by refusing to repent and listen to the warning; then unfortunately destruction will come eventually.

Yes, God will judge all nations in history and will judge individuals in eternity. But God is patient and not happy to see any country be destroyed; but wants everyone to come to repentance.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Believe he's going to judge all nations. It's the mercy of God that makes Him wait. God loves all people and all nations unfortunately if they continue to ignore the warnings; then God will have to destroy them as sovereign state and give their land to others..

That is inconsistent with a "loving" god. God "loves" you, so he has to create infinite torture-pits, just in case you don't "love" him back.

What's worse? God absolutely refuses to communicate in any *meaningful* way to his "creation"... the bible is clearly and obviously not even a little divine, so it cannot be from god...

God warns and punishes nations with disasters and if they ignore it by refusing to repent and listen to the warning; then unfortunately destruction will come eventually..

So much for Free Will, and Love. Disasters punish the innocent far more than the guilty...

Yes, God will judge all nations in history and will judge individuals in eternity. But God is patient and not happy to see any country be destroyed; but wants everyone to come to repentance.

There you go again: using the word "love" in a way that is inconsistent with ... actual love...

 

[74x12]

The idea that God ever liked slavery is easily refuted. As Jesus said "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

So we are commanded to only be slaves to God. So as Jesus said; from the beginning it was not so. Men were not made to be slaves of men; but servants of God.

Again Jesus said "Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ."

So we cannot have another master. It's obvious that God only allowed slavery in this world because of the messed up state of the world. Because in the bronze age everyone had slaves and in the Roman empire if you taught against slavery they would just hate you (even more) for it. So, it was pointless to go against it. But whoever is a slave of men if they served Jesus they were free to God.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The idea that God ever liked slavery is easily refuted. As Jesus said "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.".

That does not work, sorry. For starters? You didn't refer to an actual verse, so it's likely you didn't report that verse faithfully.

So we are commanded to only be slaves to God. So as Jesus said; from the beginning it was not so. Men were not made to be slaves of men; but servants of God..

That's not any better: Slavery is immoral. Even being a slave to god? Still immoral.

Again Jesus said "Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.".

Not helping-- slavery is immoral, regardless who the owner is.

Owing slaves is worse-- that means? Your god is immoral!

So we cannot have another master. It's obvious that God only allowed slavery in this world because of the messed up state of the world. Because in the bronze age everyone had slaves and in the Roman empire if you taught against slavery they would just hate you (even more) for it. So, it was pointless to go against it. But whoever is a slave of men if they served Jesus they were free to God.

The god you describe is still immoral.

And? You now paint your god as "Well, I'm powerless to go against the Majority, who owned slaves, so Let's Just Go With That, Then, Okay?"

You describe an inept, immoral and quite incapable deity.

 

[74x12]

Immaterial.

I think it is material. If it was God's will to include that in the Bible; He must have a reason for doing so.

Yet, despite Luke 6:31, god still endorses slavery by setting out the rules by which it can be played.

In the old Testament yes.

So they were the ones pulling the strings.

Q. In raising children which is wiser:

1) Setting out rules, some of which you will have to enforce, so as to produce well behaved children,

2) Don't set out any rules thereby saving your children from breaking them, and saving yourself the trouble of having to enforce them.

Your first choice is wiser which is why according to Jewish beliefs; God made 613 laws. So they as spiritual "children" had plenty of rules already.

But, since we are on the topic of children; could you hold children to the same set of standards that apply for adults? Should you make children work a full time job and pay their own bills? So my point is that just like children need time to grow up. So people needed to grow up a bit. Paul compared the Mosaic Law to a "schoolmaster" that led them to Christ. (Galatians 3:24) A schoolmaster in those days was someone who basically brought children to school. They were the ancient Greek equivalent of a school bus. Except they just escorted children to the school. So my point is that the Law was for --spiritually speaking-- children.

 

[sooda]

I think it is material. If it was God's will to include that in the Bible; He must have a reason for doing so.

In the old Testament yes.

Your first choice is wiser which is why according to Jewish beliefs; God made 613 laws. So they as spiritual "children" had plenty of rules already.

But, since we are on the topic of children; could you hold children to the same set of standards that apply for adults? Should you make children work a full time job and pay their own bills? So my point is that just like children need time to grow up. So people needed to grow up a bit. Paul compared the Mosaic Law to a "schoolmaster" that led them to Christ. (Galatians 3:24) A schoolmaster in those days was someone who basically brought children to school. They were the ancient Greek equivalent of a school bus. Except they just escorted children to the school. So my point is that the Law was for --spiritually speaking-- children.

Wrong. A "schoolmaster" is a teacher. A schoolmistress is a teacher.

See what I mean about education?

 

[74x12]

Wrong. A "schoolmaster" is a teacher. A schoolmistress is a teacher.

See what I mean about education?

Doesn't change my point. And I wasn't wrong. Although the meaning of the Greek word is more than just someone who takes children to school; that's part of it. So don't tell me I need an education. You clearly didn't even look up the Greek word.

παιδαγωγός paidagōgós, pahee-dag-o-gos'; from G3816 and a reduplicated form of G71; a boy-leader, i.e. a servant whose office it was to take the children to school; (by implication, (figuratively) a tutor ("pædagogue")):—instructor, schoolmaster.

 

[sooda]

Doesn't change my point. And I wasn't wrong. Although the meaning of the Greek word is more than just someone who takes children to school; that's part of it. So don't tell me I need an education. You clearly didn't even look up the Greek word.

παιδαγωγός paidagōgós, pahee-dag-o-gos'; from G3816 and a reduplicated form of G71; a boy-leader, i.e. a servant whose office it was to take the children to school; (by implication, (figuratively) a tutor ("pædagogue")):—instructor, schoolmaster.

This forum is in English......

 

[ecco]

Believe he's going to judge all nations. It's the mercy of God that makes Him wait. God loves all people and all nations unfortunately if they continue to ignore the warnings; then God will have to destroy them as sovereign state and give their land to others.

The land will go back to the people - someday.​

That sounds a lot like what Communist Leaders have been saying. I guess they were just trying to emulate god's plan.

God warns and punishes nations with disasters and if they ignore it by refusing to repent and listen to the warning; then unfortunately destruction will come eventually.

Humans live 60-90 years. I don't think too many world leaders are really afraid of what god is going to do. Especially since god was going to do it "any day now" and nothing has happened. Nothing.

Yes, God will judge all nations in history and will judge individuals in eternity. But God is patient and not happy to see any country be destroyed; but wants everyone to come to repentance.

That's quite a change from 4000 years ago when he horrifically drowned almost every animal, man, woman, child, and fetus.

 

[ecco]

In the old Testament yes.

Why do you make that sound like writings in the old testament are not really important?

 

[ecco]

God made 613 laws.

Do any of these 613 laws prohibit slavery? No?

 

[ecco]

a servant whose office it was to take the children to school; (by implication, (figuratively) a tutor ("pædagogue")):—instructor, schoolmaster.

A "servant". I wonder if that refers to a paid servant or a slave servant. Does your Greek specify?