If you say you don't need God

[Willamena]

We can say verbally or think mentally we do not need God. We can see God as a myth or superstition or nonsense.

But to me it is clear as day that if God withdrew His powers for a split second, then existence would cease to exist.

Just the sun alone which i am convinced is in His Hands, if it ceased to exist we would all perish so while we see no need to verbally call out to God, I believe we are very much dependent on Him for our very existence whether we acknowledge it or not.

But why should the rest of us believe in "God" as this unverified source of existence?

 

[loverofhumanity]

But why should the rest of us believe in "God" as this unverified source of existence?

You shouldn’t if that’s how you feel. But I’ve more than verified the existence of God in my heart and mind and am absolutely certain of His existence.

It took me a while as an atheist to find out the truth but I’m glad I did find it and I hope others will also as there is nothing worse than to be hoodwinked into believing there is no God when there is.

It’s a lie to oneself atheism is, as I found out myself, and there is plenty of proof for those who are sincere and are willing to be humble. I followed my own path not others who felt the same. I always questioned myself and found I had it all wrong.

 

[blü 2]

I see God is the giver of the cause of existance. Thus I see all existance returns to a single point and has branched from the letters B & E being joined and knit together. I see that cause is the Holy Spirit that enemates from the Most Great Spirit.

The representatives of God, who are God's Manifestations, are all we can know about God.

Thus for me, the only way to define a beleif in God is through a Messengers Life, Actions and Words.

Regards Tony

So emotion rather than reason? Or is that unfair?

 

[LuisDantas]

We can say verbally or think mentally we do not need God. We can see God as a myth or superstition or nonsense.

But to me it is clear as day that if God withdrew His powers for a split second, then existence would cease to exist.

Just the sun alone which i am convinced is in His Hands, if it ceased to exist we would all perish so while we see no need to verbally call out to God, I believe we are very much dependent on Him for our very existence whether we acknowledge it or not.

It is your right to hold such a belief. But there are two very significant elements of that belief that must be kept in mind.

1. It is indeed your belief. Meaning that it is your matter to do as you want, without necessarily making any sense to anyone else.

2. You are here defining God as the sustainer of existence. That is a very specific role, and declaring that it exists implies nothing whatsoever about the existence or meaning of other roles that are often associated with that word.

Most significantly, it does not tell us anything whatsoever about whether belief in such a concept is at all a good thing. For all we know, your God as defined above might resent worship - if it can even have any awareness of what humans might do or pursue, that is.

Come to think of it, technically you are describing the fundamental forces of physics by the name "God". Or you might as well be, far as consequences go. Or the time-space continuum. Or several other conceivable ideas.

You shouldn’t if that’s how you feel. But I’ve more than verified the existence of God in my heart and mind and am absolutely certain of His existence.

Do you realize that in saying so you are giving up on discussing truth as such and declaring that you prefer to use your certainty as a substitute?

That is exactly what you are saying, with another wording.

It took me a while as an atheist to find out the truth but I’m glad I did find it and I hope others will also as there is nothing worse than to be hoodwinked into believing there is no God when there is.

Trouble is, you have just told us to disregard what you believe in if we are to pursue truth. Therefore your claim here has been voided of any meaning... by you.

And that is a good thing, because otherwise you would have to support your claim, which would involve showing that there is some chance of being "hoodwinked into atheism" and also that atheism is somehow innacurate.

That would be problematic. But it is also unnecessary, now that you gave up on attempting to make a meaningful claim.

The only remaining problem is figuring out why a meaningless claim is worth proposing.

Actually, you probably should not make it, since it might mislead others who are not forewarned to disregard it.

It’s a lie to oneself atheism is, as I found out myself, and there is plenty of proof for those who are sincere and are willing to be humble.

Well, that is what the Qur'an says, anyway. But as you just admitted, such a line of arguing is one that you gave up on trying to justify.

I happen to think that you did well in giving up, because as arguments go this Quranic view is utterly disastrous. It is disrespectful to both atheism and theism, apparently understanding neither. It is uninformed and insulting towards atheists as people, arrongantly calling us liars. And then it lies manipulatively, claiming out of thin air that atheists "need sincerity and humility".

Given that, is it any wonder that Islaam has to resort to threats of death to keep atheists quiet?

I followed my own path not others who felt the same. I always questioned myself and found I had it all wrong.

Who are those "others" and what do you mean about those others "feeling the same"? The same as you? Or as each other?

 

[Altfish]

a cardiologist was visiting a sick neighbor in the intensive care unit, suddenly he collapsed unwell. They did a quick ECG in the ICU, He told them this is a heart attack do this and that. Few minutes later he arrested, resuscitated but to no avail. He passed away among his colleagues and in the ICU to where he came by his feet. The ambulance you would call cannot be any quicker. Please God in a sincere sublimation knock the sky doors in a blink of an eye.

An ECG is a test, not a cure, I've not long had one. The ambulance was an example not a remedy for everything.
And what does that anecdote prove? Sack the doctors, stop medicine? Rely on god instead?
If I had a choice... prayer or medical treatment...I know which I would choose.

 

[Remté]

Okay, I was going to post this before, but decided not to: So what? So what if the showing is to someone else, how does it change your answer to my questions?

1) So what does this "him" need, that we're suppose to feel?
2) And what benefit do we get from showing it?
​

which I'm still waiting for. But now you have three questions to answer:

1) So what does this "him" need, that we're suppose to feel?
2) And what benefit do we get from showing it?
3) How does the showing to someone else change your answer to my questions?

.​

1)Hope
2)Depends where, how and why
3)It changes everything. ^ answer to it if you mean show as an act. If you mean other showing it affects the whole of humanity. It is remarkable that such a phenomenon can be seen in humanity. The world would not be the same if it wasn't shown.

 

[Remté]

Are you suggesting that those of us, who do not turn to a god or gods, have dysfunctional minds or are somehow inhuman?

When one understands the trick behind a magic trick, they cannot go back to thinking it is magic.

No.

 

[Remté]

Trying to prove something by referencing quotes from any given religion's scripture is a hazardous undertaking here. And I'm being generous when I use the word "hazardous".

It isn't a proof. And it isn't scripture.

 

[Remté]

Desperation does not aid clear thinking.

Be so or be not. That has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[Remté]

Is it? I don't think so.

I have seen similar claims fairly regularly. But they always come from Muslim sources (or sometimes Bahai) and they are consistently very unconvincing, to say the least.

Maybe you can give a source, or a couple of examples?

No but you can tell me what is contradictory to science in the Quran.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It is your right to hold such a belief. But there are two very significant elements of that belief that must be kept in mind.

1. It is indeed your belief. Meaning that it is your matter to do as you want, without necessarily making any sense to anyone else.

2. You are here defining God as the sustainer of existence. That is a very specific role, and declaring that it exists implies nothing whatsoever about the existence or meaning of other roles that are often associated with that word.

Most significantly, it does not tell us anything whatsoever about whether belief in such a concept is at all a good thing. For all we know, your God as defined above might resent worship - if it can even have any awareness of what humans might do or pursue, that is.

Come to think of it, technically you are describing the fundamental forces of physics by the name "God". Or you might as well be, far as consequences go. Or the time-space continuum. Or several other conceivable ideas.




Do you realize that in saying so you are giving up on discussing truth as such and declaring that you prefer to use your certainty as a substitute?

That is exactly what you are saying, with another wording.



Trouble is, you have just told us to disregard what you believe in if we are to pursue truth. Therefore your claim here has been voided of any meaning... by you.

And that is a good thing, because otherwise you would have to support your claim, which would involve showing that there is some chance of being "hoodwinked into atheism" and also that atheism is somehow innacurate.

That would be problematic. But it is also unnecessary, now that you gave up on attempting to make a meaningful claim.

The only remaining problem is figuring out why a meaningless claim is worth proposing.

Actually, you probably should not make it, since it might mislead others who are not forewarned to disregard it.



Well, that is what the Qur'an says, anyway. But as you just admitted, such a line of arguing is one that you gave up on trying to justify.

I happen to think that you did well in giving up, because as arguments go this Quranic view is utterly disastrous. It is disrespectful to both atheism and theism, apparently understanding neither. It is uninformed and insulting towards atheists as people, arrongantly calling us liars. And then it lies manipulatively, claiming out of thin air that atheists "need sincerity and humility".

Given that, is it any wonder that Islaam has to resort to threats of death to keep atheists quiet?



Who are those "others" and what do you mean about those others "feeling the same"? The same as you? Or as each other?

You have rightly pointed out that this is what I have found or discovered for myself.

For me the greatest proof that God exists (apart from the creation of the universe) are His Educators like Buddha, Muhammad, Christ, Moses and recently Baha’u’llah and their lives and teachings.

And God is continually appealing to us through these Educators to be at peace with one another and live noble, virtuous lives so I believe God is calling us to do that which is best for the human race - peace with all.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is a bit odd to me, but fair enough.

Do you have any ideas about how/why this God that you conceive chose not to make its existence obvious to everyone? Why would it want its existence to be known only so indirectly, and yet insist that it is a very big deal that people believe in and accept its existence?

Isn't it just more natural and more reasonable to conclude that if such a God exists, it does not particularly wants to be believed in? Or maybe it actively wants to be disbelieved, even?

We can use a metaphor. If the material sun moves closer to earth, then life as we know it would not exist. Thus the sun stays in place and sends life giving rays.

These rays are the Holy Spirit and the people created to mirror these rays, are the Manifestations of God.

God created us to know God and Love God. To do this we need free will to accept or reject Gods Messengers.

Its all for our benefit, to take it or leave it. Muhammad said there is no compulsion in religion.

Regards Tony

 

[Remté]

Actually, you probably should not make it, since it might mislead others who are not forewarned to disregard it.

Disregard what exactly?

because as arguments go this Quranic view is utterly disastrous. It is disrespectful to both atheism and theism, apparently understanding neither. It is uninformed and insulting towards atheists as people, arrongantly calling us liars. And then it lies manipulatively, claiming out of thin air that atheists "need sincerity and humility".

Which ayats?

Given that, is it any wonder that Islaam has to resort to threats of death to keep atheists quiet?

This has nothing to do with the Quran.

 

[Remté]

I'm among those who didn't feel any need to call out to anybody or anything.

When I had my heart attack, I figured I'd just go back to before all this began.

As I have said before there are more terrifying things than one of this kind.

 

[Remté]

So when people doubt God in times of hardships, what does that mean?

Nothing. One can doubt God, believe in God, pray and curse God all at the same time.

 

[Remté]

Most atheists don't call upon God in times of danger. Provide evidence for your claims.
Next.

Why don't you provide to yours?

 

[Remté]

Understatement of the millenium...

Ayat?

 

[Remté]

Nah. Atheists won't. Praying is something that needs to be taught. If one is not taught to pray, it won't happen at all as a reflex act in times of stress and danger.

I doubt it. A prayer is here but a request.

 

[Remté]

I've never called on the Islamic god, so......

This has nothing to do with Islam. And there is no such thing as an Islamic God.

 

[Remté]

This can be easily be proven wrong, esp. because you imply(depth of heart) it is true for all ages

There used to be plenty of tribes who never heard about God (that's why some Christians evangelize)
If they were never told about God, they would not know God, hence they would not "call upon Him"

They didn't have a word God in their vocabularly perhaps. That is all.