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Explain to me why god is real using facts

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Don't all religions contradict one another? Why would God give His messengers contradictory messages?
No, none of the true religions of God *as originally revealed* contradict one another. They appear to only because the followers and the divines corrupted the original religions so they no long represent what the Messengers revealed. This is a complex subject, but I just wanted to give you the gist.
What message did He send from the three Abrahamic religions?
I guess you mean Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
The primary message of Judaism is monotheism, that God is one, a single omnipotent, incorporeal God, who is the creator and ruler of the universe.

Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, explained the primary missions of the last three Messengers; Jesus, Muhammad and Baha'u'llah:

“The Revelation associated with the Faith of Jesus Christ focused attention primarily on the redemption of the individual and the molding of his conduct, and stressed, as its central theme, the necessity of inculcating a high standard of morality and discipline into man, as the fundamental unit in human society. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find any reference to the unity of nations or the unification of mankind as a whole. When Jesus spoke to those around Him, He addressed them primarily as individuals rather than as component parts of one universal, indivisible entity.......

The Faith of Islám, the succeeding link in the chain of Divine Revelation, introduced, as Bahá’u’lláh Himself testifies, the conception of the nation as a unit and a vital stage in the organization of human society, and embodied it in its teaching. This indeed is what is meant by this brief yet highly significant and illuminating pronouncement of Bahá’u’lláh: “Of old [Islamic Dispensation] it hath been revealed: ‘Love of one’s country is an element of the Faith of God.’” This principle was established and stressed by the Apostle of God, inasmuch as the evolution of human society required it at that time. Nor could any stage above and beyond it have been envisaged, as world conditions preliminary to the establishment of a superior form of organization were as yet unobtainable. The conception of nationality, the attainment to the state of nationhood, may, therefore, be said to be the distinguishing characteristics of the MuHammadan Dispensation, in the course of which the nations and races of the world, and particularly in Europe and America, were unified and achieved political independence.....

“One of the great events,” ‘Abdu’l-Bahá has, in His “Some Answered Questions,” affirmed, “which is to occur in the Day of the manifestation of that Incomparable Branch [Bahá’u’lláh] is the hoisting of the Standard of God among all nations. By this is meant that all nations and kindreds will be gathered together under the shadow of this Divine Banner, which is no other than the Lordly Branch itself, and will become a single nation. Religious and sectarian antagonism, the hostility of races and peoples, and differences among nations, will be eliminated. All men will adhere to one religion, will have one common faith, will be blended into one race, and become a single people. All will dwell in one common fatherland, which is the planet itself.” The Promised Day Is Come, pp. 119-121
How do you know He got a message from? How do you know He wasn't lying or deluded?
By looking at all the evidence that surrounds the Revelation of Baha'u'llah; most notably His Character, what He accomplished on His Mission, and His Writings.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Nice attempt at being insulting. You've just insulted most of the world's indigenous religions. You're not fooling anyone with your not so veiled bigotry.

As I made no such accusation, it was you that have read into what was said , that what was not said.

Personally I see the Worlds indigenous religions as the strong foundations for all Faiths and see them as I do my own Faith. That is from God.

You could have asked :)

Regards Tony
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Nice attempt at being insulting. You've just insulted most of the world's indigenous religions. You're not fooling anyone with your not so veiled bigotry.
Sometimes important details can get lost in the big picture that Baha'is present.

It is a Baha’i belief that there are legitimate Prophets who have come to particular localities throughout the world. That means that the indigenous people no doubt had Prophets who revealed legitimate religions that they followed. We do not have a list of all these Prophets and religions, but that does not mean they do not exist. ;)

The Three Kinds of Prophets
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
As I made no such accusation, it was you that have read into what was said , that what was not said.

Personally I see the Worlds indigenous religions as the strong foundations for all Faiths and see them as I do my own Faith. That is from God.

You could have asked :)

Regards Tony
I wasn't reading anything into what you said. You have a habit of posting passive aggressive slights towards those who reject Baha'ism and religions that can't be assimilated or distorted by it.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Sometimes important details can get lost in the big picture that Baha'is present.

It is a Baha’i belief that there are legitimate Prophets who have come to particular localities throughout the world. That means that the indigenous people no doubt had Prophets who revealed legitimate religions that they followed. We do not have a list of all these Prophets and religions, but that does not mean they do not exist. ;)

The Three Kinds of Prophets
There are no such thing as prophets in indigenous Germanic religion.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
There are many reasons I believe it is true but the main reason is because it makes logical sense... The primary underpinning of the Baha'i Faith is that there is one God and all religions come from the same God and they are each revealed by a Messenger in every age of history. That is called Progressive Revelation. All the major religions were *right* for their time in history but as time goes on humanity and the world he lives in changes so we need a new religion, one that is suited to the times.

So why would a god go about things in such an obscure way? Quite apart from the contradictions between religions and the fact that there isn't just one at a time, there are contradictory interpretations within religions themselves.

If a god wants to sent messages to its creation, why weren't they clear and obvious to everybody? It would have saved a lot of conflict in the world...
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Basically, I am an atheist right, so I would like for you to explain to me why your god is real and use facts not opinions, please.

Strange question

I would like for you to explain to me, why you like me to explain to you, why my God is real. No need for facts. Opinion is also okay.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
One can't be interested in something that's shaped world history for millennia just cause it's based in mythology?
True, but that interest is not what the OP is displaying, it seems to me.

It seems instead to be someone looking to bolster their pre-existing convictions by exposing perceived weaknesses in religious belief.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I wasn't reading anything into what you said. You have a habit of posting passive aggressive slights towards those who reject Baha'ism and religions that can't be assimilated or distorted by it.

If you see it that way, sorry I can not change that.

I can only say you have misread and impute intent that is not so.

I am a person of few words. Always have been.

Peace be with you and all, Regards Tony
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Basically, I am an atheist right, so I would like for you to explain to me why your god is real and use facts not opinions, please.
Because it has always been observed that complex information resulting in systemic purpose and function never originates without intelligence as it’s source.

And it’s everywhere. Even cooperation between systems.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
So why would a god go about things in such an obscure way? Quite apart from the contradictions between religions and the fact that there isn't just one at a time, there are contradictory interpretations within religions themselves.
Can you think of any reason why God would want to be really obvious? If it was that easy, what kind of believers would we be?

There are no contradictions between the originally revealed religions; they are additive, each one building upon the next one, further truth being revealed as mankind and his world evolve.

There is just one true *major religion* at a time, such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The contradictory interpretations within religions occurred because there were no appointed interpreters for the scriptures of the older religions, and because of these different interpretations, religions such as Christianity split up into hundreds of sects.
If a god wants to sent messages to its creation, why weren't they clear and obvious to everybody? It would have saved a lot of conflict in the world...
Because God tests His Servants, God does not want to be clear and obvious to everybody. By making it a bit difficult, the sincere seekers are separated for those who are not that interested in discovering the Truth.

You are right, being more clear and obvious could have saved a lot of conflict, but that is the trade off for God allowing us to use our own innate intelligence to figure it out and allowing us to use our free will to choose.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
As a (mostly) observer of the threads I have seen you in, I must say that you do come over as @Saint Frankenstein has said. IMO :)

Regards Jedster

Well I looked up 'passive aggressive'

"Passive aggression is a deliberate and masked way of expressing covert feelings of anger (Long, Long & Whitson, 2009). It involves a variety of behaviors designed to get back at another person without the other recognizing the underlying anger."

That was a wow laugh, Anger, I have none and ;) I have no agressive bone in my body, never have. Thus trying to hide it by being passive, would be because I'm passive I guess.

slights

"insult (someone) by treating or speaking of them without proper respect or attention."

Maybe? I guess one would have to talk face to face. I do not do small talk well and as stated, I also do not do essays.

Thus I guess I will have to wear being a giver of passive agressive slights.

Silence may be better :)

Regards Tony
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Can you think of any reason why God would want to be really obvious?

I don't know but I don't see why, on the one hand, this god thinks the messages are important enough to send, but on the other, allowing to them become hidden amongst all the other false, outdated, and distorted 'messages'.

If it was that easy, what kind of believers would we be?

So it's a test? Test of what?

There are no contradictions between the originally revealed religions; they are additive, each one building upon the next one, further truth being revealed as mankind and his world evolve.

That message contradicts the messages many other believers think are correct.

Because God tests His Servants, God does not want to be clear and obvious to everybody. By making it a bit difficult, the sincere seekers are separated for those who are not that interested in discovering the Truth.

But why the game of hide-and-seek in the first place? What is the virtue or quality that this god is trying to select for?

I'd really like to understand more about the puzzle of existence, but I have yet to see a reason to take the any of the ideas of god(s) seriously. I know quite a bit about the major religion in my culture and a bit about some others, and they seem, to me, to get less believable the more you know about them.

So am I just not the sort of person your god is interested in? Are its messages not for me?

You are right, being more clear and obvious could have saved a lot of conflict, but that is the trade off for God allowing us to use our own innate intelligence to figure it out and allowing us to use our free will to choose.

So in what way can our innate intelligence lead us to this god, when the world is full of people who "know" the truth but are all saying different things, and none of which appear to be able to offer concrete evidence or sound reasoning - because, I assume from what you've said, this god doesn't want to be that clear?
 

Jedster

Well-Known Member
Well I looked up 'passive aggressive'

"Passive aggression is a deliberate and masked way of expressing covert feelings of anger (Long, Long & Whitson, 2009). It involves a variety of behaviors designed to get back at another person without the other recognizing the underlying anger."

That was a wow laugh, Anger, I have none and ;) I have no agressive bone in my body, never have. Thus trying to hide it by being passive, would be because I'm passive I guess.

slights

"insult (someone) by treating or speaking of them without proper respect or attention."

Maybe? I guess one would have to talk face to face. I do not do small talk well and as stated, I also do not do essays.

Thus I guess I will have to wear being a giver of passive agressive slights.

Silence may be better :)

Regards Tony

I agree many people demonstrating PAism are not always conscious of it.
You say you are passive and without anger(congratulations there), ie not PA,
then maybe you could consider the language you use in your answers(without compromising your self).
Just a suggestion :)....ooh and I have given you several 'likes'.

(PS Let us not derail the OP.)
 

Earthling

David Henson
Lets start with the definition of the word god. It means anyone or anything that is considered mighty in that it is of a might greater than that of the one attributing or anyone or anything that is venerated.

So.

The gallery in a theater.

Fox-Entrance-011.jpg

A thing accorded the supreme importance appropriate to a god. i.e. "don't make money your god"

ON-CF689_dollah_M_20170811152733.jpg

An adored, admired, or influential person.

130508-clapton-is-god-640x426.jpg

An image, idol, animal, or other object worshiped as divine or symbolizing a god.

81uu6Pt8iUL._SX425_.jpg
 
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