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Explain to me why god is real using facts

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I agree many people demonstrating PAism are not always conscious of it.
You say you are passive and without anger(congratulations there), ie not PA,
then maybe you could consider the language you use in your answers(without compromising your self).
Just a suggestion :)....ooh and I have given you several 'likes'.

(PS Let us not derail the OP.)

In a way it is not derailing the OP. One of the greatest proofs of God, is the way God chooses to share His Messages.

In each age people are inspired by the Message and it is not the well spoken learned of the age that are chosen. Why is this so? Why choose a fishermen or prostitute with no learning?

Now Look at where they stand in History and look where the learned of the age went. Worth a thought.

Regards Tony
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The only facts we can obtain about God come through Messengers of God... I guess you would not call them facts though, but rather beliefs, since they cannot be verified.

If you want to believe in God, I suggest you check out the latest Messenger so God. He is a Representative of God and has all the latest info on God..... :)
The problem is, these 'messengers' are a dime a dozen. They can be found in any mental hospital throughout the world.
This sort of religiosity is a common symptom in psychoses. It's not surprising that a messianic occasionally gains a following, or that a cult occasionally gains politico-religious power and grows.
Fact: God is real, you're welcome.
Fact: The Sun is a fiery, horse-drawn chariot driven across the sky by Apollo.

Religious myths are also a dime a dozen. If you really want to convince people of the truth of it you need to back up your assertions with empirical facts.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
One of the greatest proofs of God, is the way God chooses to share His Messages.

In each age people are inspired by the Message and it is not the well spoken learned of the age that are chosen. Why is this so? Why choose a fishermen or prostitute with no learning?

Now Look at where they stand in History and look where the learned of the age went. Worth a thought.

This is "one of the greatest proofs" of god, is it? Isn't it, well, a tad underwhelming? Doubly so as the messages don't really seem to fit together (unless you're very selective about it).
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I don't know but I don't see why, on the one hand, this god thinks the messages are important enough to send, but on the other, allowing to them become hidden amongst all the other false, outdated, and distorted 'messages'.
The Message of Baha’u’llah is not hidden at all. It is readily available on the internet:
Baha’i Reference Library online

Everyone might not know they exist, but once they find out they are all there to download or read online.
So it's a test? Test of what?
Test to see how much effort we are willing put forth, how much we are willing to put aside our bias, challenge what we already believe or disbelieve, how much we are willing to sacrifice of our time..... in order to discover the Truth.
That message contradicts the messages many other believers think are correct.
I know, so that is another test... You have to decide which viewpoint makes sense to you. That might take some research and study. But those who put forth the effort get the reward. I am always willing to help those who are sincere seekers of truth, as others once helped me understand. Books are books but most people need someone to help them navigate until they get their bearings. People help people.
But why the game of hide-and-seek in the first place? What is the virtue or quality that this god is trying to select for?
Sincerity and effort and love of God are what God selects for. People prove their worthiness. An omniscient God already knows who will become a believer but He wants us to become who we choose to become through our actions.
I'd really like to understand more about the puzzle of existence, but I have yet to see a reason to take the any of the ideas of god(s) seriously. I know quite a bit about the major religion in my culture and a bit about some others, and they seem, to me, to get less believable the more you know about them.
I do not know which religions you are referring to but I would never believe in any religion other than the Baha’i Faith, because none of the others make complete sense to me. There are good features in every religion but there are too many problems with the older religions, since they have been corrupted by man. How can I believe something that does not make logical sense? I do not operate out of emotions like some people, I operate out of reason. A religion can be reasonable and also appeal to the emotions. One has to have some love for it or they cannot retain faith over time.
So am I just not the sort of person your god is interested in? Are its messages not for me?
They certainly are for you. God's messages are for everybody who wants them. You sound like a sincere seeker to me, even if you do not know it. :)
So in what way can our innate intelligence lead us to this god, when the world is full of people who "know" the truth but are all saying different things, and none of which appear to be able to offer concrete evidence or sound reasoning - because, I assume from what you've said, this god doesn't want to be that clear?
Your innate intelligence can lead you to the truth about God if you are willing to search and know where to search...

I am sorry if I misled you. That happens on these forums. I did not mean to say that God wants to be *unclear* in what He reveals to the Messenger who establishes his religion. The scriptures that reveal the Word of God are very clear. I meant that God does not want to make it so easy that everyone can make the cut.

In every new age, very few people meet the criteria necessary to recognize the new Messenger of God, because it is not that easy for most people. That that does not mean it is impossible, but it requires motivation and effort..

Matthew 7:13-14 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”

As this relates to religion, the religion at the narrow gate is the religion God wants us to find and follow, and it is the gate that leads to eternal life. But it is not that easy for most people to find this gate because most people are steeped in religious tradition or attached to what they already believe. If they do not have a religion, most people are suspicious of the *new religion* and the *new messenger.* If they are atheists they do not like the *idea* of Messengers of God or they think they are all phonies.

It is difficult to get through the narrow gate because one has to be willing to give up all their preconceived ideas, have an open mind, and think for themselves. Most people do not normally embark upon such a journey. They go through the wide gate, the easy one to get through – their own religious tradition or their own preconceived ideas about God or no god. They follow that broad road that is easiest for them to travel. That is human nature.

I hope to see you back later. :)
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
The primary underpinning of the Baha'i Faith is that there is one God and all religions come from the same God and they are each revealed by a Messenger in every age of history
1: That's a good change IMO (all religions come from the same God). The "My God is higher approach" only created wars for thousands of years
2: Muslims say "Muhammad is the seal of prophets" ... yet a new prophet came ... so unsealed. Glad that humans allow God to send new Prophets
3: Hypothetically speaking there could come a new Messenger. God is free to change whenever He decides it's needed I believe

Unsealing the “Seal of the Prophets”
I am so happy that "seal of prophets" is now unsealed.
Seems strange and quite arrogant when humans claim to know, for a Fact, and thereby impose on God, whether or not He could send new Messengers.

If God is almighty then it's God who will decide NOT humans. He can even change Scriptures if He likes.

I see that Baha'u'llah has showed how all True Faith is from God and that all else is made by man.
1) What is your (or Bahaullah's) definition of "True Faith". Faith is a subjective belief in God as far as I know. Is there True and False if we talk about personal belief. Facts can be True or False maybe, but Faith is not about Facts, so I do not understand "True" in this context.

2) Does Bahaullah explicitly declare (beyond a doubt, where no interpretation is needed) that certain Faiths are False/True. Any verses?
 
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Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
A true Messenger of God is not found there. Only false messengers are found there. ;)
Not all messianics, megalomaniacs or narcissists are confined in mental hospitals, though. Many are speaking on the street corners or from the pulpit.
 

Firemorphic

Activist Membrane
life is god; god is life

what is god to you?

God is above existence, the cause of the universe and consequently the cause of life within the universe. God IS and as it is, is separate from life and the universe but is not latent.
Life is circumstantial and transitory but God self-reveals itself to life, as life itself comes to it's own realizations of it independent of it's own self-revelations.
God is not synonymous with life, the universe or collective mankind. God is the ultimate other, the eternally inherent.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
The Message of Baha’u’llah is not hidden at all. It is readily available on the internet:

No, I didn't mean it was hidden in that sense. I mean that there are lots and lots of religions, cults, and sects and none of them are obviously correct. At least most of them must be wrong, so the true message, if it exists, is hidden amongst all the false ones.

Test to see how much effort we are willing put forth, how much we are willing to put aside our bias, challenge what we already believe or disbelieve, how much we are willing to sacrifice of our time..... in order to discover the Truth.

I seriously doubt that one could hope to fully understand every religion, cult, and sect in the world in any sensible proportion of one lifetime - and where is the reason to even expect that one of them is correct, in order to embark on such a project? It looks like a rather foolish thing to do.

I know, so that is another test... You have to decide which viewpoint makes sense to you.

The problem is that the whole idea of a god sending a message to its creation, not making it clear to everyone, then letting it get hidden amongst a whole lot of false messages, and then expecting us to go searching for it (for no obvious reason that I can see) doesn't make any sense to me.

How can I believe something that does not make logical sense? I do not operate out of emotions like some people, I operate out of reason.

So where is the reasoning that suggests any of the religions are genuine, in order to make some sort of search rational?

I meant that God does not want to make it so easy that everyone can make the cut.

Why not? I assume you think believing comes with some benefit to the believer, so why would a god not want everyone to believe? Doesn't it like most of the people it created?
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why does an atheist want to know anything about God? Atheists don't believe God(s) exist.
I used to be an atheist until I realized I didn't know what a real God was, so the question is essentially useful.

As well as that, it would be peculiar if the faithful had no clear idea of a real god, would it not?

So what real thing is the word 'God' meant to denote?

If we find a real entity that's a candidate to be God, what test will tell us whether the entity is God or not?

It seems to me that the answer to that question must entail a clear concept of 'godness' which God possesses and other candidates eg a superscientist do not, but I have no idea what that could be either.

So illumination would be helpful. Indeed, satisfactory answers to those questions might persuade me to reconsider my present condition of nonbelief.
 

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
Basically, I am an atheist right, so I would like for you to explain to me why your god is real and use facts not opinions, please.
In 1997 I had visions when travelling in a train of events that were to unfold in my personal life. They were greater or more intense than dreams. And they came true. It was a spiritual awakening for me as if some power was warning me to be prepared for upheavals in my life. This was followed by strange incidents that I was speaking and writing as though some power had taken over the reigns of my body and mind and getting me to do things in the United Kingdom. That was the spark that generated my interest in seeking whether there was truly a God residing within me. I decided that if there had been a God that had given me those visions, I should be able to communicate back to Him and have an interaction with Him to try and see if He was real or a figment of my imagination. I challenged God to appear to me to prove or disprove whether the visions were indeed warnings of the upheavals to come where I entered into a dog-fight with the UK State to protect my reputation as a sane human being.

I used a digital clock where I said to God, if you were really there and had given me those premonitions you would be able to contact me directly with messages through the digital clock because I needed an objective method to ascertain if I was or was not delusional in these thoughts. So I said, if the clock displays '7' in the time that I check (2.41, 3.04, 6.10, 9.07 etc) it would mean that there was a positive message from God on the questions that I need to take actions on in my battle to protect my reputation. It went on for 19 years of truth search and resulted in my Blog: Shantanu Panigrahi's Blog: Towards Knowledge for World Conservation where I succeeded in protecting my reputation. So I had no choice but to attribute this to God's interjection in my life.

I developed a method for truth seeking through truth accommodation to seek the Nature of God, and it is still proving to be invaluable tool for me as an Existentialist.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Basically, I am an atheist right, so I would like for you to explain to me why your god is real and use facts not opinions, please.
love of self is inherent. it arises from the unconditional mind. know thyself in the beginning love raised the heavens and earth


the path, search, seeking is inward, involute


Revelation 6:14
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.


no man is a mountain unto himself, let the islands collapse in upon themselves.


looking for love? look to heaven above.


it's hiding within self

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
 
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Jos

Well-Known Member
The primary message of Judaism is monotheism, that God is one, a single omnipotent, incorporeal God, who is the creator and ruler of the universe.
Is God male or female?
“The Revelation associated with the Faith of Jesus Christ focused attention primarily on the redemption of the individual and the molding of his conduct, and stressed, as its central theme, the necessity of inculcating a high standard of morality and discipline into man, as the fundamental unit in human society. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find any reference to the unity of nations or the unification of mankind as a whole. When Jesus spoke to those around Him, He addressed them primarily as individuals rather than as component parts of one universal, indivisible entity.......
But Jesus also said that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father but through Him? Why would He speak so exclusively if He's just one of many prophets?
By this is meant that all nations and kindreds will be gathered together under the shadow of this Divine Banner, which is no other than the Lordly Branch itself, and will become a single nation. Religious and sectarian antagonism, the hostility of races and peoples, and differences among nations, will be eliminated. All men will adhere to one religion, will have one common faith, will be blended into one race, and become a single people. All will dwell in one common fatherland, which is the planet itself.”
This sounds the New World Order which according to Christian theology is supposed to be led by Satan and not God.
By looking at all the evidence that surrounds the Revelation of Baha'u'llah; most notably His Character, what He accomplished on His Mission, and His Writings.
I heard Mohammed was a slave owner and what did he accomplish while he was here?
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Nothingness , where no thing exists ! The individualism of space is nothingness and things occupy this nothingness .
space is a thing. just a different type of energy. dark energy


forms arise from the formless, unconditional mind. this is why the name of names implies all that is, was, will be, I AM. in the west it is called the thunder perfect mind. in the east they call it the diamond mind.


forms are temporal. energy doesn't take a definite form this is why E = m(c*c)



The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
you're looking for love = god? look to the mind above, to heaven.

behold it is coming with the thoughts and every seeker will understand it


and the eye of ra looks back
 
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