tas8831
Well-Known Member
lightwave.
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Putting the JW Stand on Evolution in Perspective
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Well, given that I just gave you an example of the orthodox medical system “curing” someone, then I’d say that I do have an argument. But you’re right, anecdotes don’t tell us enough. Let’s look at the numbers that indicate that cancer survival rates have increased over the last few decades, thanks to the “orthodox medical system:”
“Among adults diagnosed with cancer during the period from 1974 through 1976, the 5-year relative survival rate for all cancers combined was 50%. Among whites, it was 51%; among blacks, it was approximately 40%. During the same period, the 5-year relative survival rate for all childhood cancers combined was about 62%. (Note: Relative survival compares the survival of a cancer patient to that of an average person of the same age and sex.) …
Among adults, the 5-year relative survival rate for all cancers combined is now approximately 68%; among whites, it’s about 69%; among blacks, it’s about 59%. The improvements in survival seen since the mid-1970s reflect progress in diagnosing certain cancers, such as prostate cancer, at earlier stages and improvements in treatment.
The 5-year relative survival rate for all childhood cancers combined is now approximately 81%. …
Combination chemotherapy is now standard in the treatment of many cancers and has contributed to increasing survival and cure rates. For example, the introduction of combination chemotherapy that contained the drug cisplatin led to cure rates for testicular cancer of approximately 95 percent. Treatment for this disease has become so effective that 80 percent of patients with metastatic testicular cancer can now be cured. Thirty-five years ago, 95 percent of these patients died, usually within 1 year of diagnosis.”
NIH Fact Sheets - Cancer
What you seemed to miss also, is the fact that that the “natural therapies” industry also rakes in billions of dollars in cash, as they push untested and unproven “cures.” Don’t worry though; my uncle also completely ignores that little fact when he’s going on about how much money the “orthodox medical system” rakes in.
The truth is that people read a bunch of junk on the internet from “natural news” sites that hype up “natural remedies” as something more than they are and it’s giving people false hope. People like my uncle, who would have died injecting himself with peroxide and B17, neither of which are backed up by any medical research whatsoever.
No unwanted side effects? Is death an “unwanted side effect?” I’d say so.
You know what happened to my grandfather after my uncle force fed him his concoction of diluted peroxide? He had to have a fecal transplant because the peroxide had killed all of the bacteria in his body, including the “good” bacteria. That’s what happens when you try to be your own doctor, yet have no medical expertise whatsoever.
But you’re touting natural therapies as some kind of cure. Hmmm …
Well, until they can demonstrate that it’s the cannabis that cured the cancer, they have no business making such claims.
The internet is filled with people claiming to have been abducted by UFOs and claiming that the earth is flat as well. So what? People can claim whatever they want, but something isn’t automatically true, just because someone has claimed it.
I’ve also told you several times that anyone in Canada (and in many places throughout the US and the rest of the world) can access medical marijuana in its dried plant form (or pretty much any form we’re looking for) that “big pharma” has manufactured. I smoked some last night, in fact. I’ve also taken in it pill form or in the form of a “fake drug” as you call it and I can assure you, it’s quite potent. Furthermore, anyone in Canada is allowed to grow up to 4 of their own plants for personal use. So I’m sorry if I don’t know what you’re going on about.
All the components work together, but they also work on their own. Hence the reason THC works best for some things, while CBD (which does not produce the “high” effect that THC does) works better for others. There are over 100 cannabinoids that have so far been identified.
As to the rest, I’m already aware of all this, having studied psychopharmacology on occasion. It is not a “perfect” medicine though, nor is it a cure for cancer. Those claims are getting into snake-oil territory
FYI (even though I’ve pointed this out to you before) the human body is also made up of opioid receptors. I guess you could say that the human body is “designed to work with” opioids.” But you don’t. Hmmmm …
Well, given that cancer survival rates have drastically increased over the last couple of decades, perhaps it’s going to … cancer research!
I don’t know how on earth you can make such claims about cancer, especially since they contradict your earlier claim that cannabis cures cancer.
So is the “natural therapies” business. You can’t honestly use that as a strike against the “orthodox medical system” and not to do the same for the “natural therapies” business. That’s if you’re interested in being honest.
Sorry I don’t buy into this good versus evil forces at work in the universe stuff.
I don’t know what propaganda you’re referring to.
They are tried and tested which is how we discovered the existence of over 100 cannabinoids that are present in the plant.
Again, if it can’t be demonstrated that cannabis cures cancer, then it can’t be asserted. Maybe the “natural therapies” industry is cool with making claims they can’t back up, but the “orthodox medical system” can’t work that way.
Notice how the Israeli scientists don’t tout cannabis as the “cure-all” that you do. They are more realistic and honest about it.
Okay, so in your world, is there anyone NOT involved in some giant global conspiracy? I mean, we’ve got doctors, nurses, technicians, dieticians, surgeons, ophthalmologists, geologists, chemists, biologists, paleontologists, paleobotanists, physicists, zoologists, ornithologists. Is that about right?
So who is NOT involved in this mass global conspiracy? Let me guess, natural therapy practitioners? They’re the only ones who haven’t been brainwashed, right? Oh, and you, of course.
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ecco
Veteran Member
The gap that will always exist...
Ignoramous: There is a gap between 1 and 2
Math Aficionado: I can fill the gap with 1.5
Ignoramous: There is a gap between 1 and 1.5
Math Aficionado: I can fill the gap with 1.25
Ignoramous: There is a gap between 1 and 1.25
Math Aficionado: I can fill the gap with 1.125
Ignoramous: There is a gap between 1 and 1.125
Math Aficionado: Exasperated Sigh oooo OK, you win.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Staring death directly in the face may have had something to do with it.
ecco
Veteran Member
my emphasis...
No. It is illogical to you because that's what JW tells you to believe.
I'll repost my comment that I made to HokeyCowboy...
A non-religious person would never think in terms of information originating from mindless forces.
As a test, I went to Google and entered "complex information originates from mindless forces" without the quotes. The very first thing that comes up is...
This is a link to a JW Watchtower article that contains the term 'mindless process' six times.
As a test, I went to Google and entered "complex information originates from mindless forces" without the quotes. The very first thing that comes up is...
This is a link to a JW Watchtower article that contains the term 'mindless process' six times.
You can deny your indoctrination all you want to, but your own writings are clear evidence.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Grammar pet peeves are hard not to correct. I grind my teeth whenever I see: "I could care less".
This one gets me quite often. Here is a slightly technical explanation:
If I were you - English Grammar
And a video that explains it in everyday terms:
ecco
Veteran Member
Prove where you actually understood what the authors were saying about the particular topic discussed.
Sorry, that's too harsh.
Provide evidence to show you understood what the authors were saying about the particular topic discussed.
Still too harsh.
Give us anything to show you have any understanding of what the authors were saying about the particular topic discussed.
Audie
Veteran Member
Well, who knows. Maybe it is in the playbook,
maybe it is just part of a syndrome.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I tried to explain to him that he was worshiping the all powerful God of the Gaps.
Also I saw that you mentioned Gish in one of your posts recently . I attended one of Gish's debates. I had to look it up on the wayback machine, but it appears that the debate I saw was between Duane Gish and Dr. Samuel Kirkwood at the University of Minnesota on April 29, 1979. That was relatively early in his career and I do not think that scientists were ready to handle the Gish Gallop yet. All I remember of the debate was the obvious dishonesty of Gish. I bought either a book by either Gish or Morris at the debate and was amazed at the lies and distortions in those works. Somewhere in my garage it is buried. with other books. Perhaps I will have to dig it out for old times sake some day.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
Another reminder for the Hockey guy:
YOU WROTE:
Too much diversity exists, for evolution to reasonably explain and account for. No undirected, mindless force could greatly mutate these organisms, and still maintain the balance in nature that exists.
I asked you to imagine that I understand biology but know nothing of evolution and to EXPLAIN what you wrote to me. And you didn't.
YOU WROTE:
Too much diversity exists, for evolution to reasonably explain and account for. No undirected, mindless force could greatly mutate these organisms, and still maintain the balance in nature that exists.
I asked you to imagine that I understand biology but know nothing of evolution and to EXPLAIN what you wrote to me. And you didn't.
I think he means that symbiotic organisms mutate in harmony.
I thought it was rather a high res pic myself. You could even see the red spot.....But never mind....
I'm not an ornithologist or a bird expert, but obviously my brothers had done their homework on this one. I knew there were different gulls in the world, but your protest led me to discover so many more than I ever thought possible.
Oh, I see, it was you feeling humiliated when you had attempted to humiliate my brothers accusing them of being wrong in other things as well.
What ????
I believe my comment was about the church's teachings, if memory serves me. I stand by that, but I was responding to someone else....what does that have to do with my response to you?
I think you just are trying to cover your embarrassment....it's time to put it down now...don't you think?
Yes I get your point, you and your brothers are perfect, make no mistakes and act just like your Jesus.
Your posts tell a different story....
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I listened to a 3 hour debate with him and Dr. Peoples from the University of Michigan on Detroit radio back in the 70's, and Gish came out looking like a fool. Even the moderator at the end chimed in and said that so much of what Gish said was illogical.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
Saw a Hovind debate in the 1990s. Similar results - the Intervarsity actually wrote a letter to the college paper afterward apologizing for Hovind's antics.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
LOL!I think you just are trying to cover your embarrassment....it's time to put it down now...don't you think?
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
I've seen a few Hovind debates. He has one single speech that he recycles over and over and over, no matter what his debate partner says to him. And of course, his speech is just one big long Gish Gallop.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
Actually, 'science' objects to simplification because many things about the world cannot be so simplified that that it cannot be misconstrued, misrepresented, or lied about. Like how you only use Evolution 101 as a source, then claim that because it uses little scientific terminology that you can 'see' how it is all conjecture and the like - even as you totally ignore the references provided on that site to in-depth research. And then you wonder why nobody takes you seriously.
Like how you declare that Medical Science should have cured all manner of diseases by now? That because it hasnb't, it is all about making customers and and the like. You are one of the biggest bullies on this forum - and one of the most ignorant.
No, it is a way to discuss science. That you do not understand the science is obvious, yet this does not deter you from, nevertheless, pontificating on it and passing judgement on those taking part in it. Not only is that major hypocrisy, it is a rather narcissistic manner of going through life, thinking you know all when in reality, you are actually pretty uninformed.
There is #63. You really hate that you cannot understand the language of science, don't you?
Yet how would you even be able to tell? Can you support that crazed claim with examples and evidence?
Or do we just have to take the word of a hypocritical uneducated religious zealot at face value?
OK - lets strip the jargon from bible lore -
an ancient middle eastern tribal deity breathed n dust and a man popped out.
What fool can believe THAT?
I'm betting you wouldn't agree with that assessment for some reason...
Actually, you can.
You just cannot help yourself.
None so arrogant than those that do not know proclaiming to be the sole arbiters of truth.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
Indeed. At one point, his opponent called him out on a lie he had made about moon rocks. when it was his turn to rebut, he did not address the lie at all, he just said "So, you're calling me a liar? well, I know the TRUTH!" and strutted across the stage with his bible held aloft, much to the delight of the home schooled crowd that had been bused in. I was shocked.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Oh yeah, he plays it up with the theatrics too. It's actually kind of nauseating to me at this point. You can only watch so much of it.