Was Muhammad a Messenger of God?

[Prestor John]

I don't think our discussion is going to well. Do you?

That tends to happen when you claim people are ignorant and that they live in a bubble.

As well as you being ridiculous with your "Baha'i people aren't for genocide" nonsense, demanding "proof" on matters of belief, being sanctimonious and applying your own subjective definitions and double standards.

You also do not take enough responsibility for your behavior negatively affecting this discussion. Why didn't you quote the things you said about me when describing how our discussion is not going well?

Are you going to stop assuming things about me, putting words in my mouth, applying double standards and taking the discussion "off-the-rails" with preposterous arguments?

Are you actually going to start being accountable for the things you say?

 

[Vinayaka]

I think it’s important to reflect and not just believe everything we read because a lot of it is factually incorrect as well as heresay and rumour.

We each need to search out the truth for ourselves and not rely on the opinions of others if we are to find out if Muhammad was truly a Messenger of God.

Excellent advice. Too bad many people can't seem to see how it also applies to themselves. So you get atheists quoting other atheists, Muslims quoting other Muslims, Baha'i quoting other Baha'i, etc. If your suggestion was taken seriously, we'd see quotes and 'evidence' from other sources. But I guess that's just too much to ask, no?

From what I've seen 'hearsay and rumour' is just the accusatory language used for opinions that differ from your own. So it's more of the old 'you're speaking nonsense' going from both sides.

 

[j1i]

yes
An ancient version of the Bible of Barnabas was found in Turkey before the birth of Muhammad confirming that he was a prophet

Secret £14million Bible in which 'Jesus predicts coming of Prophet Muhammad' unearthed in Turkey | Daily Mail Online

and
King Solomon 's wife used to say a song with words of praise to Muhammadem

The Qur'an says that the sons of the children of Israel were on high morals when Jacob died
read this verse
Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob, and he said to his sons, "What will you worship after Me?" They said, "We will worship your God, and the God of your fathers, Abraham, Ishmael, and Isaac; One God; and to Him we submit."

They began with their uncle Ismail because he was the eldest
This is proof that they respect the elder first
And that Ishmael is of value to the children of Israel, being like a father like what is mentioned in the Koran

We are one family and I wish we lived as one house
But Satan lived in envy and tried to divide the brothers and make them fight like Abel and Cain


We say this song when we were young
My brother, my brother
Do not lay in the flood
Sleep in a safe place
Sleep in a cold place
I will put you into my heart
I will fight all your enemies even if I have suffered a thousand wounds
and your enemies have turned away from you
I will be glad to see you happy
GOD bless you

 

[TransmutingSoul]

yes
An ancient version of the Bible of Barnabas was found in Turkey before the birth of Muhammad confirming that he was a prophet

Secret £14million Bible in which 'Jesus predicts coming of Prophet Muhammad' unearthed in Turkey | Daily Mail Online

and
King Solomon 's wife used to say a song with words of praise to Muhammadem

The Qur'an says that the sons of the children of Israel were on high morals when Jacob died
read this verse
Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob, and he said to his sons, "What will you worship after Me?" They said, "We will worship your God, and the God of your fathers, Abraham, Ishmael, and Isaac; One God; and to Him we submit."

They began with their uncle Ismail because he was the eldest
This is proof that they respect the elder first
And that Ishmael is of value to the children of Israel, being like a father like what is mentioned in the Koran

We are one family and I wish we lived as one house
But Satan lived in envy and tried to divide the brothers and make them fight like Abel and Cain


We say this song when we were young
My brother, my brother
Do not lay in the flood
Sleep in a safe place
Sleep in a cold place
I will put you into my heart
I will fight all your enemies even if I have suffered a thousand wounds
and your enemies have turned away from you
I will be glad to see you happy
GOD bless you

As the Old Testament and New Testement contain prophecy about Muhammad, is that not proof enough? Muhammad and Ali are surely the two witnesses clothed in sackcloth, quoted in Revelation, that would give prophecy for 1260 days (years).

Peace be upon Muhammad

Peace be upon you and all.

 

[j1i]

As the Old Testament and New Testement contain prophecy about Muhammad, is that not proof enough? Muhammad and Ali are surely the two witnesses clothed in sackcloth, quoted in Revelation, that would give prophecy for 1260 days (years).

Peace be upon Muhammad

Peace be upon you and all.

The Prophet Muhammad was saying to Ali
You are like the prophet Aaron with Moses, but no prophet after me

It means that he was an ordinary man and not a prophet charged with the task of the prophet sent by the Lord

However, Ali is from the House of Prophethood and has the merit and respect

have nice day brother

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Prophet Muhammad was saying to Ali
You are like the prophet Aaron with Moses, but no prophet after me

It means that he was an ordinary man and not a prophet charged with the task of the prophet sent by the Lord

However, Ali is from the House of Prophethood and has the merit and respect

have nice day brother

In my search to date I came across information that Muhammad had appointed Ali verbally, as the one to succeed him after Muhammad had passed on.

Do you know much about this? Any advice would be good?

You also have a nice day and may peace be with you always.

 

[danieldemol]

So first of all, do you believe the event happened?

Yes

Then, since the industrial age didn't happen for several centuries, was killing all prisoners of war and men of a conquered people God's "just" way of dealing with people that Muslims defeated?

I would consider it more a matter of pragmatism than justice alone

And last, is this really the best God come up with? Have his divine, perfectly polished mirror, the one reflecting all of God's attributes, kill all those people?

I think God could have miraculously intervened had God wanted to - to come up with a better solution, however it seems not to have been in God’s will to do so.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes
I would consider it more a matter of pragmatism than justice alone

I think God could have miraculously intervened had God wanted to - to come up with a better solution, however it seems not to have been in God’s will to do so.

I also like to consider views such as these.

http://www.muhammadfactcheck.org/?muhammad=prophet-muhammad-sa-murdered-700-innocent-jews

It deals with many issue at this site;

http://www.muhammadfactcheck.org

Peace be with you always.

 

[danieldemol]

I also like to consider views such as these.

http://www.muhammadfactcheck.org/?muhammad=prophet-muhammad-sa-murdered-700-innocent-jews

It deals with many issue at this site;

http://www.muhammadfactcheck.org

Peace be with you always.

Thanks it is a nice site, although I believe the reason Muhammad is considered to be involved is because He is reported to have called it similar to God’s judgement.

I also believe the ruling was consistent with the Quran at 5:32-34

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thanks it is a nice site, although I believe the reason Muhammad is considered to be involved is because He is reported to have called it similar to God’s judgement.

I also believe the ruling was consistent with the Quran at 5:32-34

Thank you for the response. I can be on either side, as I see no wrong in what Muhammad has revealed in the Koran.

I got my idea from when I read a tablet from Baha'u'llah, think maybe the Kitab-i-iqan. The quote could be found easy I think. It is where Baha'u'llah explains about Moses being guilty of Murder and the veil that placed on the people seeing the divinity of Moses. In that same tablet I think Muhammad is proved without reference to any killing. Of course that may not have been needed, if the explanation proves the divinity of Muhammad.

In the end, I see whatever Muhammad did implement, be it with or without a sword, it was done with divine justice, as its as God had commanded. Muhammad taught submission to Gods Will.

Peace be upon you and all.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Prophet Muhammad was saying to Ali
You are like the prophet Aaron with Moses, but no prophet after me

It means that he was an ordinary man and not a prophet charged with the task of the prophet sent by the Lord

However, Ali is from the House of Prophethood and has the merit and respect

have nice day brother

In your understanding of Islam, does Muhammad predict the coming of the Bab and Baha'u'llah?

 

[j1i]

In your understanding of Islam, does Muhammad predict the coming of the Bab and Baha'u'llah?

The Prophet Muhammad said that there are liars who will call for prophecy and that they will be special people

This introduction is similar to what some Christians and Jews do in sanctifying the righteous because they have the ability to forgive sins

As if they are doing the duties of God as if God is busy in other creatures

by the way
The priests and the monks are certain of the truthfulness of Muhammad's message, but they do not want to spread this word
Because it may expose them to murder and danger but indirectly hint

The subject of triangulation and the introduction of sacramental rituals in religions was one of Satan's plans to destroy human faith

Baha'u'llah is a team strayed from the right path

The Jews splited into 73 divisions (One team of those will survive)
The Christians splited into 72 divisions (One team of those will survive)
Muslims splited into 73 divisions (One team of those will survive)

The proof is that the Christians distorted the Gospel where they said
Those who bear witness in heaven are three
Father, Son and Spirit
In fact, in ancient versions
Spirit, blood, water, and three are one
The theme is the integration of elements and not a measure of deity (THE GOD)

 

[Dawnofhope]

That tends to happen when you claim people are ignorant and that they live in a bubble.

As well as you being ridiculous with your "Baha'i people aren't for genocide" nonsense, demanding "proof" on matters of belief, being sanctimonious and applying your own subjective definitions and double standards.

You also do not take enough responsibility for your behavior negatively affecting this discussion. Why didn't you quote the things you said about me when describing how our discussion is not going well?

Are you going to stop assuming things about me, putting words in my mouth, applying double standards and taking the discussion "off-the-rails" with preposterous arguments?

Are you actually going to start being accountable for the things you say?

You sound offended and this is one of a number of posts from you on this thread denouncing someones character or point of view.

Was Muhammad a Messenger of God?

Was Muhammad a Messenger of God?

Was Muhammad a Messenger of God?

Was Muhammad a Messenger of God?

My intention in starting this thread is to generate informed discussion about Islam. I have no intent to give offence as I try to avoid taking offence. I appreciate the topic of Islam is challenging to many and can generate strong feelings. You response to the OP question was clear enough. You do not believe Muhammad to be a Messenger of God because He has made statements that contradict your Christian beliefs, for example in regards the Divinity of Christ.

Was Muhammad a Messenger of God?

Was Muhammad a Messenger of God?

I have no problem with any of that although we agree to disagree. I also acknowledge that initially through this thread you have responded well to differences of opinion and largely avoided personal attacks.

You have also made statements to the affect that you are disinterested in learning about Hinduism, Islam and the Baha'i Faith.

Was Muhammad a Messenger of God?

Was Muhammad a Messenger of God?

I have no problem with you being disinterested in learning about other Faiths as you clearly believe in the truth of your Christian/LDS Faith.

Unfortunately in some of those comments you have made gratuitous criticisms of both Islam and the Baha'i Faith and made comments that were incorrect and misleading.

That’s right. I think they also claim that Mary was only a little girl at the time.

Even though I believe that Muhammad is not a true prophet and that the teachings of Islam are not completely true, I never meant to claim that everything that Islam believes and teaches is wrong or incorrect.

As the old adage goes, “A broken clock is still right twice a day.”

I have only talked with a handful of those of the Baha’i faith and they seem to try to be “good” with everyone, which reminds me of the saying, “If you stand for everything, you stand for nothing.”

It was in response to both these comments that I posted:

Was Muhammad a Messenger of God?

I concede the use of the words 'ignorant' and 'LDS bubble' could be perceived as being offensive but you have not given me any reason to retract them.

For example as well as the extreme personal attacks...

Was Muhammad a Messenger of God?

you have indirectly compared Islam to the KKK.

I don’t need to know everything there is to know about the KKK or Black Lives Matter to know that I do not want to be associated with either of those organizations.

The “deal breakers” for me are on the surface, therefore, there is no need to delve into them any further.

Just like with Muhammad and his denial of the divinity of Christ. That is my “deal breaker” in regards to Islam.

You have quoted from WikiIslam, a website dedicated to anti-Islamic propoganda.

https://www.quora.com/How-credible-is-wikiislam-net#

I agree that it is a very poor argument. However, it is a common argument used by Islamic Apologists.

Joseph the Pedophile - WikiIslam - Claim that Christian God is a pedophile

Responses to Apologetics: Muhammad and Aisha - WikiIslam - Number 23

Personally, I believe your best option would be to retract and apologise for the remarks you have made about both Islam and the Baha'i Faith. Islam isn't anything like a broken clock that is right twice a day, nor the KKK. The Baha'i Faith doesn't stand for everything. I'm not holding my breath expecting you will. In the interim you just seem to be digging a deeper hole for yourself.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Muslims splited into 73 divisions (One team of those will survive)

That is an interesting number, it equates to 10.

One removed, that makes 9.

9 is the sign of perfection. From what I have read the Number 9 has a lot to do with the Faith Baha'u'llah founded. Thus it could be that the one that survives, is Baha'u'llah and guides the remaining?

Of course, this is only of interest.

Peace be with you.

 

[j1i]

That is an interesting number, it equates to 10.

One removed, that makes 9.

9 is the sign of perfection. From what I have read the Number 9 has a lot to do with the Faith Baha'u'llah founded. Thus it could be that the one that survives, is Baha'u'llah and guides the remaining?

Of course, this is only of interest.

Peace be with you.

Baha al-Din sanctifies figure nine
His faith is no more than admiration of his theories such as Einstein or some physical thinkers
Everything that is creature and real attributes its bounty to God
People discover it and connect it to themselves
The universe is complex and is a complex series of digital, biological, physical and chemical links

I believe that Baha'a 's discoverer is an issue in mathematics not more
And wants to apply them in religions

LOOK AT THIS PICTURE
Imgur

 

[Katzpur]

@adrian009, you may find these two quotes interesting:

“The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.” ~the late LDS Church President, Spencer W. Kimball and the First Presidency of the Church~

“While the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is established for the instruction of men, it is ONE of God’s instrumentalities for making known the truth; yet God is not limited to that institution for such purposes, neither in time nor place. He raises up wise men and prophets here and there among all the children of men, of their own tongue and nationality, speaking to them through means that they can comprehend; not always giving a fulness of truth such as may be found in the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ; but always giving that measure of truth that the people are prepared to receive. Mormonism holds, then, that all the great teachers are servants of God among all nations and in all ages. They are inspired men, appointed to instruct God’s children according to the conditions in the midst of which he finds them… Whenever God finds a soul sufficiently enlightened and pure; one with whom His Spirit can communicate, lo! He makes of him a teacher of men.” ~the late LDS Apostle, B H Roberts~

While Mormons don't see Muhammad as a prophet in the same sense that we do Joseph Smith and other LDS Prophets, I think these two statements are indicative that we do see him as having been inspired in at least some of what he taught.

 

[j1i]

@adrian009, you may find these two quotes interesting:

“The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.” ~the late LDS Church President, Spencer W. Kimball and the First Presidency of the Church~

“While the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is established for the instruction of men, it is ONE of God’s instrumentalities for making known the truth; yet God is not limited to that institution for such purposes, neither in time nor place. He raises up wise men and prophets here and there among all the children of men, of their own tongue and nationality, speaking to them through means that they can comprehend; not always giving a fulness of truth such as may be found in the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ; but always giving that measure of truth that the people are prepared to receive. Mormonism holds, then, that all the great teachers are servants of God among all nations and in all ages. They are inspired men, appointed to instruct God’s children according to the conditions in the midst of which he finds them… Whenever God finds a soul sufficiently enlightened and pure; one with whom His Spirit can communicate, lo! He makes of him a teacher of men.” ~the late LDS Apostle, B H Roberts~

While Mormons don't see Muhammad as a prophet in the same sense that we do Joseph Smith and other LDS Prophets, I think these two statements are indicative that we do see him as having been inspired in at least some of what he taught.

Hello comrade
Why did not you measure Muhammad by prophets?
But tried to confuse the characters Notepad and philosopher?

I know that your convictions are to uncover Muhammad from the place of prophecy

You may doubt if you are not familiar with the Quran and understand the verses
But explicitly, Jesus linked God,

This is exactly unacceptable and logical, and here is a scale

He illustrates an example for you, from your own selves: do you make your servants full partners in the wealth We have given you? Do you revere them as you revere one another? We thus explain the revelations for a people who understand.

you can also watch this

if you are intersting​

 

[Dawnofhope]

@adrian009, you may find these two quotes interesting:

“The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.” ~the late LDS Church President, Spencer W. Kimball and the First Presidency of the Church~

“While the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is established for the instruction of men, it is ONE of God’s instrumentalities for making known the truth; yet God is not limited to that institution for such purposes, neither in time nor place. He raises up wise men and prophets here and there among all the children of men, of their own tongue and nationality, speaking to them through means that they can comprehend; not always giving a fulness of truth such as may be found in the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ; but always giving that measure of truth that the people are prepared to receive. Mormonism holds, then, that all the great teachers are servants of God among all nations and in all ages. They are inspired men, appointed to instruct God’s children according to the conditions in the midst of which he finds them… Whenever God finds a soul sufficiently enlightened and pure; one with whom His Spirit can communicate, lo! He makes of him a teacher of men.” ~the late LDS Apostle, B H Roberts~

While Mormons don't see Muhammad as a prophet in the same sense that we do Joseph Smith and other LDS Prophets, I think these two statements are indicative that we do see him as having been inspired in at least some of what he taught.

Hi @Katzpur,

Thank you for dropping in. Your contribution here is timely. While appreciating we have different worldviews, its really important we're able to appreciate the positives in each others faiths.

I'm a Baha'i representative member and vice chairman of my cities interfaith council. Our current chair is a Mormon and your faith is well represented as we would hope.

I grew up Christian but became a Baha'i nearly 30 years ago attracted to Teachings that recognised the Divine origins of all the main religions so I believe in the same God, Jesus, and bible as I did as a Christian.

Although Baha'is don't believe Jospeh Smith to be a prophet, we do recognise the Mormons as Christians. Your high moral standards such as abstinence from alcohol are admired and Baha'is do not partake of alcoholic beverages either. Clearly Mormons are animated by the Teachings of Christ and that is the most important thing.

Baha'is are also enjoined to associate with peoples of all faiths in a spirit of love and fellowship and avoid conflict and contention. On the other hand we are to be just and fair in our dealings with others. Sometimes that means being firm and correcting those who attempt to disparage the faiths of others through the propogation of false and misleading information.

Best Wishes
Adrian

 

[Dawnofhope]

Baha al-Din sanctifies figure nine
His faith is no more than admiration of his theories such as Einstein or some physical thinkers
Everything that is creature and real attributes its bounty to God
People discover it and connect it to themselves
The universe is complex and is a complex series of digital, biological, physical and chemical links

I believe that Baha'a 's discoverer is an issue in mathematics not more
And wants to apply them in religions

LOOK AT THIS PICTURE
Imgur

Hi @j1i ,
Thank you for dropping by. The OP asks the question is Muhammad a Messenger of God. I believe He is and have no doubt that as a Muslim you belive that to be true. So why do you think Muhammad is a Messenger of God? Are there any other historic religious leaders such as Moses or Christ that you would consider as Messengers of God as well?
Kind regards
Adrian

 

[Sabour]

Hi @j1i ,
Thank you for dropping by. The OP asks the question is Muhammad a Messenger of God. I believe He is and have no doubt that as a Muslim you belive that to be true. So why do you think Muhammad is a Messenger of God? Are there any other historic religious leaders such as Moses or Christ that you would consider as Messengers of God as well?
Kind regards
Adrian

Hello Adrian

Allow me to share my input as a mulsim.

Muhammad peace be upon him is a Messenger of God because he came with the message of worshiping Allah alone and not associating with him any partners. That was his purpose in life.

It wasn't like he chose it himself and that is it, but he received revelation from God.

53:2 Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred,
53:3 Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.
53:4 It is not but a revelation revealed,

By God's will, the message was at the start secretive, meaning that Muhammad peace be upon him would share the message with a close circle of friends. For those who accepted, they used to meet up and discuss the message and understand more and more.

After some time, Allah ordered Muhammad peace be upon him to share the message publicly, so he did start with the area he lived in. After that, he shared the message outside Mecca.

What I want to say is that the message was meant to be shared with the whole world and not only in a particular area.

21:107 And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds.

A message which started with one man is now followed by approx 2 billion people.

For all that was mentioned (and much more), we believe that he is a messenger of God.

Let me add that according to scholars, there is a difference between a prophet and a messenger. Majority of scholars say that the difference between a prophet and a messenger is that the first is not ordered by God to convey the message while the latter is. Hence, every messenger is a prophet, but not every prophet is a messenger. Other scholars say that in addition to sharing the message, messengers come with new laws and shariah (of course revealed from God) whereas prophets don't add to the religion ( if we may call it) and they follow the teachings of the previous messenger.

According to some hadith, there are 120000 prophets in islam who passed through. Others say that this number is inaccurate but what they do agree on is that there are much more prophets than the 25 who were mentioned in the Quraan ( Jonah, Soliman, Moses, Jesus, Noah ...... peace be upon them.)