Truly Enlightened
Well-Known Member
I was just trying to say that reality is not completely objective, which I think is in line with QM. It's along the lines of, "we don't know what we don't know." Is the wave an absolute reality and we simple collapse it to see that cast in stone reality, or is the wave more fuzzy and we, the observer, give it a veneer of reality by our observation?
I understand QM is not the "final proof" of Biblical truth. To me, the Bible itself is all that is required for that.
Mark 11:23
That's a bold statement to make. What do we do with it? Simply pass it off as fantasy? There's certainly a lot at stake. Why is my life the way it is? According to this verse (and others) I am where I am because of what I have believed. Furthermore, I will be where I will be because of what I believe. If true, it certainly behooves me to be aware of what I believe. I have come to the conclusion that the things written in the Bible are my best shot at living a fulfilled life, both now and the future. I've not seen anything with more or better promises than the scriptures. But what if I'm wrong? Will that mean I somehow loose out on something better? I don't see very much of a possibility that I could end up worse off for believing the Bible over any other piece of literature, sacred of not.
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
On another note, I wasn't particularly using QM to prove miracles, although many have. But I've never heard that QM disproves miracles though. I may be wrong, but I think you even implied that classical physics offers a better proof for miracles. I'm very interested. Could you give me more info on that?
Take care...
Thank you again. Your beliefs are very important to you. My understanding of reality is very important to me. I prefer to rely more on what I do know than what I don't know. I also tend to avoid over-generalizing the use of not knowing something, especially, used as an argument against knowing something. What we don't know, we simply don't know. What we are specifically referring to is the nonmaterial, metaphysical, spiritual, supernatural, miracles, and anything that is not affected by the laws of nature. We are not talking about anything that naturally occurs in nature, or is created by man. There is no justification for believing in anything that may exist outside of the nature of our reality, without evidence. Since the claim is extraordinary, the evidence must also be extraordinary. Claiming that one should keep an open mind, is unfortunately not an example of extraordinary evidence. This is only a conscious choice, influenced by many external, social, emotional, educational, and internal factors, other than intelligence. The problem is that most believers do not simply claim that they believe in the existence of the supernatural, they claim that they KNOW that the supernatural exists. They claim that they just can't prove it because it is beyond their understanding. Top-down logic is just presupposition in disguise. The burden of proof must always be shifted, to avoid responsibility.
Reality is completely objective. It does not require our presence to exist. However, we certainly do. If we could "mind melt" with every creature or person on the planet, we would fall short of knowing what our objective reality looks like. Fortunately, we are trapped within our own subjective perspective. I really don't think that we can realistically relate QM with miracles and beliefs. In QM we are talking about disturbances in the fabric of spacetime. In miracles we are talking about interpretations and beliefs. Many scientist believe that QM will be our final proof that explains what reality is, and how it works. The String Theory seems to be the best candidate. It we could find the Graviton, we would be even closer to the Theory of Everything. The wave function you mentioned, is not a wave like we see on the surface of a pond. It is a wave of probability, since all particles(by convention) can be in different positions at once. When you collapse the wave by measuring the particle's position, the particle simple demonstrate only one of those states. These problems do not exist in the classical world, where objects behave predictably, and smoothly. For any miracle to happen, many of the natural laws must be violated or suspended. This simply can't happen, or our entire Universe would cease to exist. How many natural laws must be suspended, for the Earth or time to stop, objects to float or appear, or any future events to be controlled or observed?
If there does exist another form of reality, it has no effect on the laws of nature in our 4 dimensional Universe. Therefore, it can't be directly or indirectly detected, measured, or observed, anymore that we can see our true image through our own eyes. Therefore irrelevant. Thank you again.