Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

[David1967]

If not for all of the without-law apostacy staring us in the face... sheeple, having been commanded by men what we are to believe about God... I mean your so-called Bible canon.

The canon is the whole problem. And it seems to have been put into place for the express purpose of keeping Gentiles/Israel out of the Kingdom of Heaven.

You certainly have some interesting views. Are you a part of a particular denomination?

 

[OtherSheep]

which is?

Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

What Pharisees called Satan was actually the Spirit of God.

 

[OtherSheep]

Exactly!!! Don't give scripture with a "guess what" as the answer. That's not useful.

Repetition is useful. Noted.

 

[David1967]

What Pharisees called Satan was actually the Spirit of God.

That is the view I was speaking of. Calling a good work of God a work of the devil.

 

[Kenny]

QUOTE="OtherSheep, post: 5699608, member: 64612"]
Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

What they were calling Satan was actually the Spirit of God.

http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/B40C012.htm

Read the conversation, look up a few words in the Greek. It's very enlightening. Pharisee (farasaioi) means wound or scatter (parash in Hebrew). And if you do what I did, you'll look up the Greek word behind scattered (v 30, skorpizei). And then look up the word scorpion (Revelation 9:3). Jesus doesn't woe the Pharisees for no reason at all. And He doesn't warn you away from their leaven without cause, either.[/QUOTE
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QUOTE="RabbiO, post: 5700368, member: 34392"]
The word "Pharisees" comes from the Latin, which in turn comes from the Greek. The Greek word is a word equivalent, not quite a transliteration, of the Hebrew word perushim. Perushim means those who keep separate and derives from a root that means separate.

I do not know if there is a Greek homophone for the Greek term for perushim, that means to wound or scatter, but it would be a mistake to attach its meaning to Pharisees.[/QUOTE
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QUOTE="OtherSheep, post: 5701280, member: 64612"]
Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
12:30 He that is not with Me is against Me; and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth abroad.
Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.[/QUOTE
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QUOTE="RabbiO, post: 5701311, member: 34392"]
I'm a little confused.
This is totally non-responsive to my post.[/QUOTE
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QUOTE="OtherSheep, post: 5701370, member: 64612"]
Jesus is saying that the Pharisees were scattering the sheep by pretending that Jesus drove out demons by the power of demons. Which reflects what Jesus says about the Pharisees stopping the sheep from entering the Kingdom, and not entering in themselves. Here's the proof of what Jesus says:

John 7:48 Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on Him?
7:52 They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.

"No prophet"... except for Jonah, Micah, Elijah... and Jesus and John.

Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.[/QUOTE
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QUOTE="RabbiO, post: 5701808, member: 34392"]@OtherSheep -
Which part of my post, #16, did you not understand that you posted two responses that had nothing to do with what I brought up in my post?[/QUOTE
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Matthew 15:9 "But in vain they do worship Me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men."

Isaiah 29:13 "And the Lord has said, This people draw nigh to Me with their mouth, and they honour Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me: but in vain do they worship Me, teaching the commandments and doctrines of men."--Septuagint

I didn't see anything about blaspheming the Holy Spirit in those scriptures although all those scriptures do say things that are detrimental to one's future. I think the Apostle Paul (Saul), among others, could fit those scriptures but it seems like God was able to reach him and transform him.

It would be classified as things that the blood of Jesus can erase.

 

[Brickjectivity]

What is it? Please discuss and provide scripture.
Thanks

When Jesus mentions this in the gospels he may be commenting upon, interpreting Leviticus 24:16 which quoted says: "(NIV) anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death." In the NIV NT Jesus says 'Never' however Greek verb tense is present-future I think, so it may not mean 'Never' and may just mean 'Not'. Whatever he means he absolutely is commenting on how to interpret Leviticus 24:16 or building upon a common understanding of it. Best guess this has to do criticizing political corruption, and it is about submitting to the foreign government due to the situation in Luke 12. "Endure. Careful what you say in secret. Be satisfied. Think of yourselves as waiting for the bride and groom..." Things like that. He is talking about submission to Rome externally.

 

[OtherSheep]

You certainly have some interesting views. Are you a part of a particular denomination?

I follow Jesus, the good shepherd, the one shepherd, the only shepherd.

 

[David1967]

I follow Jesus, the good shepherd, the one shepherd, the only shepherd.

Good for you. But that's not what I had in mind. Every Christian says they follow Christ. Do you attend any church?

 

[OtherSheep]

I think the Apostle Paul (Saul), among others, could fit those scriptures but it seems like God was able to reach him and transform him.

It would be classified as things that the blood of Jesus can erase.

Look at it in the context, and you won't think so.

12:24 But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast [them] out? therefore they shall be your judges.
12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
12:30 He that is not with Me is against Me; and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth abroad.
12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.

Jesus didn't say all of the Pharisees except Saul. He says that they, one and all, are responsible for the murder of the righteous. And what do we see Saul bragging about? Murdering the righteous, and making them blaspheme. Because of all of the things he wrote in the letter to the Galatians, he is still teaching people to blaspheme God and Jesus.

Jesus warns us that eating food sacriticed to idols will be death and hell, Paul says do it as long as nobody who believes God is watching. He loves me, he loves me not.

 

[OtherSheep]

Good for you. But that's not what I had in mind. Every Christian says they follow Christ. Do you attend any church?

Jesus warns us away from hirelings, in John 10. I don't fit the description of Christian,
since I don't follow the canonized Paul. There are no churches that don't preach Paul.
Like I said, I follow Jesus... ONLY.

 

[David1967]

Jesus warns us away from hirelings, in John 10. I don't fit the description of Christian,
since I don't follow the canonized Paul. There are no churches that don't preach Paul.
Like I said, I follow Jesus... ONLY.

This is like pulling teeth. Do you 'worship' with anyone or do you study privately only?

 

[Kenny]

Look at it in the context, and you won't think so.

12:24 But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast [them] out? therefore they shall be your judges.
12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
12:30 He that is not with Me is against Me; and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth abroad.
12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.

Jesus didn't say all of the Pharisees except Saul. He says that they, one and all, are responsible for the murder of the righteous. And what do we see Saul bragging about? Murdering the righteous, and making them blaspheme. Because of all of the things he wrote in the letter to the Galatians, he is still teaching people to blaspheme God and Jesus.

Jesus warns us that eating food sacriticed to idols will be death and hell, Paul says do it as long as nobody who believes God is watching. He loves me, he loves me not.

These are very good scriptures but these people were speaking against Jesus not the Holy Spirit, and thus "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him"

Are you saying, by your definition, that since Saul was against Jesus, he didn't get saved, didn't receive forgiveness?

 

[OtherSheep]

This is like pulling teeth. Do you 'worship' with anyone or do you study privately only?

I don't go to church, because none of them have kicked Saul to the curb.
I don't know anybody who isn't on the internet who's kicked Saul to the curb.

You act as though private study is a bad thing. Or worse, as though keeping myself from being poisoned by bad doctrine is the same thing as founding my own private anti-anomia cult. Believe me, if I thought such a cult would take hold in these without-law days, I'd be paying a bookbinder to make a Kingdom Gospel Only New Testament... it'd be thin, so it'd be cheap... 3 books only.

 

[David1967]

You act as though private study is a bad thing.

Don't know what gave you that idea. I do a lot of private study on many subjects. Religion being one of them.

Or worse, as though keeping myself from being poisoned by bad doctrine is the same thing as founding my own private anti-anomia cult

Again. Don't know what gave you that idea. Must be in your sub conscience.

Believe me, if I thought such a cult would take hold in these without-law days, I'd be paying a bookbinder to make a Kingdom Gospel

Uhm, OK. I dont know why YAH would want too though.

 

[OtherSheep]

these people were speaking against Jesus not the Holy Spirit

12:24 cast out devils, but by Beelzebub
12:28 cast out devils by the Spirit of God
12:32 speaketh against the Holy Ghost

The Pharisees called the Holy Spirit the prince of devils, straight up.
Of course, at the same time they blasphemed God and Jesus.

 

[OtherSheep]

I dont know why YAH would want too though.

To keep mankind from breaking the First Commandment.

I'm happy that digital exists for that very reason.
I have the Tanach, Matthew, John, & Revelation

... without the anomia-spiritualism nonsense.

 

[Rival]

To keep mankind from breaking the First Commandment.

...procreation? It will keep people from procreating? How?

 

[Kenny]

12:24 cast out devils, but by Beelzebub
12:28 cast out devils by the Spirit of God
12:32 speaketh against the Holy Ghost

The Pharisees called the Holy Spirit the prince of devils, straight up.
Of course, at the same time they blasphemed God and Jesus.

Yes, that is one way... of course the other viewpoint is, speaking about Jesus and not the Holy Ghost (since Jews didn't believe in the Holy Spirit:

:24 But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] (jesus) doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast [them] out? therefore they shall be your judges. (Jesus cast them out)

12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men:
(saying that they could be forgiven

But don't;

but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.

I don't think you answered my question since your position is about the Holy Spirit and not about Jesus... since :30 He that is not with Me is against Me; and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth abroad.

Was Paul saved? Or was this subject matter about Jesus and the HS reference was a side notation?

 

[OtherSheep]

...procreation? It will keep people from procreating? How?

"Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

"32 And the transgressors shall bring about a covenant by deceitful ways: but a people knowing their God shall prevail, and do valiantly. 33 And the intelligent of the people shall understand much: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, and by captivity, and by spoil of many days. 34 And when they are weak they shall be helped with a little help: but many shall attach themselves to them with treachery.

35 And some of them that understand shall fall, to try them as with fire, and to test them, and that they may be manifested at the time of the end, for the matter is yet for a set time.

36 And he shall do according to his will, and the king shall exalt and magnify himself against every god, and shall speak great swelling words, and shall prosper until the indignation shall be accomplished: for it is coming to an end. 37 And he shall not regard any gods of his fathers, nor the desire of women, neither shall he regard any deity: for he shall magnify himself above all."
--Daniel 11, Septuagint

http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/Daniel/index.htm

 

[Rival]

"Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

"32 And the transgressors shall bring about a covenant by deceitful ways: but a people knowing their God shall prevail, and do valiantly. 33 And the intelligent of the people shall understand much: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, and by captivity, and by spoil of many days. 34 And when they are weak they shall be helped with a little help: but many shall attach themselves to them with treachery.

35 And some of them that understand shall fall, to try them as with fire, and to test them, and that they may be manifested at the time of the end, for the matter is yet for a set time.

36 And he shall do according to his will, and the king shall exalt and magnify himself against every god, and shall speak great swelling words, and shall prosper until the indignation shall be accomplished: for it is coming to an end. 37 And he shall not regard any gods of his fathers, nor the desire of women, neither shall he regard any deity: for he shall magnify himself above all."
--Daniel 11, Septuagint

http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/Daniel/index.htm

Sorry, you lost me. Within Judaism the first commandment is to reproduce, as stated in Genesis.