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Featured Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by David1967, Jul 13, 2018.

  1. OtherSheep

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    I'm saying that Jesus never chose Saul, or any other Pharisee.
    Jesus never forgave Judas, so Jesus never forgave Saul.
     
  2. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    If to what you say is right, That Jesus warned about Paul, Then why did Jesus chose Paul ?
    And why did all the other disciples accept Paul as one of their disciples.
     
  3. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    My question to you is, As to how you know for sure that Jesus didn't forgive Judas and Paul.
    It seems like you do alot of saying things, without having anything to back up what you say.

    When anyone Repents, Jesus will forgive them.
    Judas Repented to what he did, Thereby Jesus forgave Judas.

    "Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders"
    Matthew 27:3.

    Therefore Judas Repented, upon a person Repenting, Jesus will forgive them.
     
  4. OtherSheep

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    [That's a seriously cute kitten, btw.]

    Gathering a congregation of strangers for the previously dispersed of Israel.

    Isaiah 56:6 "And I will give it to the strangers that attach themselves to the Lord, to serve Him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be to him servants and handmaids; and as for all that keep My sabbaths from profaning them, and that take hold of My covenant; 7 I will bring them to My holy mountain, and gladden them in My house of prayer: their whole-burnt-offerings and their sacrifices shall be acceptable upon Mine altar; for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations, 8 saith the Lord that gathers the dispersed of Israel; for I will gather to him a congregation."

    This next verse is a thing that is yet to be. When it physically happens, they are singing the song of Moses, in the verse below it.

    Revelation 5:9 "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;"

    Revelation 15:2 "And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. 3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous [are] thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [are] thy ways, thou King of saints."

    There are other Scriptures that say the same thing, so there's no reason to kick the Law to the curb in order to have an invitation. In fact, God says that the exact opposite of that is the thing to do.
     
    #84 OtherSheep, Jul 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
  5. OtherSheep

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    What Saul says of Saul is inadmissible, since it takes two witnesses to establish anything. Even Jesus says that if He is His only witness, then His witness is not true. And what Acts says about Saul came from Saul, too. That makes a total of one witness to the conversion experience that kicks the Law of Moses to the curb.

    And nobody seems to care, these days. They're so steeped in tradition, that they're afraid to take a single step outside of the box, because it would shatter what they think of as faith. Faith isn't a feeling. Faith is trust in God. It's not trust in some man who wants to tell you all about a god that his fathers never knew. If you keep on that road, you will follow the beast who does very the same thing.
     
    #85 OtherSheep, Jul 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
  6. OtherSheep

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    The son of perdition is Judas.

    John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

    Jesus says that the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. The Pharisees did that.
    Jesus says woe to the one who causes His followers to stumble. Saul made them blaspheme.
    Saul murdered the followers of Jesus, and fulfilled the prophecy of Matthew 23:34-35.

    How many chances do you think he should get? It doesn't matter, because Jesus says every one of those things is never forgiven. And how do you ask forgiveness of a man you murdered, anyhow?
    You can't. Repent until the cows come home, and it won't do you any good... and it sure won't help the guy you ended. Maybe there's a perfectly good reason for Jesus telling you not to kill anyone.
     
    #86 OtherSheep, Jul 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
  7. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
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    Where did I say I dislike scripture? I love the Bible, I love Jesus, and I love the apostles.

    All the best with your time on RF.
     
  8. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
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    This I understand, but this has been in operation for millennia. Jews are not a race but an ethnicity. It plainly says strangers attach themselves to the LORD to serve him, love, be servants. Tell me what do you think happens to such a person? They are Jewish.

    Revelation? Now Paul is involved again.

    So be Jewish?
     
  9. OtherSheep

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    "and as for all that keep My sabbaths from profaning them, and that take hold of My covenant; 7 I will bring them to My holy mountain, and gladden them in My house of prayer"

    It probably depends on what you think Jewish means. Jesus taught them that their Pharisees were teaching the doctrines of men. That probably meant the Talmud. A lot of websites are willing to tell you what that set of books are saying. If you can read more than a handful of its pages without developing a migrane and a case of the giggles, you're stronger than I am. The Jewish Encyclopedia tells us what are the code words for what they're saying about Jesus and His followers.

    Jesus says that nobody comes to the Father but by Him. Jesus also says that the Pharisees refused to enter in, and kept people from entering the Kingdom by the doorway that is Jesus. I'm thinking that the Talmud is still having that same effect. And so of course has Saul.

    Saul calls his foundation without the law the thing that will save you, and against that you will be judged. He says he has begotten you by his gospel. And he tells you to eat in the very temple of the demon. He does what Jesus tells us not to do, in other words. In fact, he pushes you away from the Law that God says will save us, and makes himself your savior. I doubt that very many people have seen any of this, because Saul pushes you away from Jesus, as well. Because Jesus tells us that eating the food of the demons will cause death and hell for us. But Saul puts his revelations in front of your eyes, and blinds you to what God has said for millennia.

    Jesus says that His word is that against which we will be judged, in John 12:48. That being the case, along with the fact that Jesus has fulfilled the sacrificial offering during these days after the temple fell, I would say that what Jesus says is all that we need to do. When the Millennium begins, the temple of Ezekiel is there. And we will be in the land. Many of the laws of Moses cannot be done in governments such as we have, or apart from the Promised Land. So Matthew and John and Revelation are our main source. We can keep the 10 Commandments, half of which belong to our service to God, and the other half to our fellow man. Jesus says He chastens those He accepts. Repent, and all of the blessings that are given to the people in the 7 assembilies who are overcoming the world, will belong to every one of us.
     
    #89 OtherSheep, Jul 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  10. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Got to be kidding, Judas is not the son of perdition.
    As to how do you come by that ?

    The Pharisees never committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

    As to how you come by that.

    Jesus in the book of Mark 13, foretold what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is.

    And when it will happen.

    And by who can commit it.
     
  11. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
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    The primary reason its difficult to determine is that I am not Jewish and am merely simulating Torah life in my brain. I have not really dealt with the Torah in a practical way, dont know the language and am not a peacemaker. If this were a dance I would be the man sitting alone with two left feet.

    There is not one Talmud but two Talmud, the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian, and this is because people were separated for a long time. Both Talmud A and Talmud B predate Pharisees of all kinds.

    My opinion is that you have not explained to me what Jesus means. I think what he opposes is not tradition but tradition. He opposes putting faith into the master-student relationship and is not opposing the Talmud nor study of it. He complains that the teacher who is well meaning nevertheless corrupts the student, twice a son of hell. Jesus refuses to teach his own disciples everything. He tells them they must learn by the holy spirit, but this does not rule out Torah or Talmud. It rules out storing manna for tomorrow thats all. Jesus says the word is alive and active and sharper than the sword, but he also upholds the Law. Therefore he has not ruled out the Talmud except for making it the last word on things. In fact he is in favor of continuous revelation rather than an end of prophecy.

    My challenge to you remains. Who invites you and I to the table if not Paul? Who gives us a window or any connection? Marrk 16 records that the twelve went throughout the world preaching and completed their task, but it was only the Jewish world. Again, where is our invitation? Paul.

    Talmud is a necessary work. It hurts your head, because it is a conversation back and forth through time, past and future. The writers of the past are treated as living. Their wisdom gets updated, and the goal appears to be timeless wisdom. I have no problem with it, but yes Jesus does not like the faith in master-student. Jesus has a different interoretationof obeying parents. Renember when at 13 he ditches his parents and they go looking for him for three days? He is saying his Father in heaven is his real, ultimate parent, moreso than Adam or Abraham. He does obey his parents but differently than the pharisees advise. He does uphold the efficacy of the Talmud, too, because he tells his disciples "Do what the pharisees tell you but not what they do."

    I have no problem wuth criticism of Paul, but remember he is more than one person. Filter and critique him, but he remains an important connection to Jesus and the Bible and Judaism. Recall Isaiah "A bruised reed he will not break and a smoldering wick he wont quench." That smouldering wick is you and me. Should we be ended merely because we have not yet been consumed by the fire? No that is nit how fire proceeds. We will be enveloped.

    More than one writer is called Paul. You must bind the truth in your heart I think and learn to weed out good from bad. Dont throw out wheat with tares or yoh will have neither seed nor bread. I think we have some good in us as does Paul.

    Sacrifices are not magic. They are covenants of peace. Each one present promises to forgive the rest. Christ is meant as a covenant broader than what Jews have but of a similar nature. From this comes the word catholic which means universal. It is a covenant for all who would be in it. Paul offers some interesting discussion about it, but he also should not be treated as the last word nor the gospels. Keep the old treasure but also make new.
     
  12. OtherSheep

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    Jesus says Judas is a devil... which is what the son of perdition means. Apollyon is king of the devils... perdition is the same Greek word.

    John 6:70 "Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot [the son] of Simon: for He it was that should betray Him, being one of the twelve."

    Matthew 21:37 But last of all He sent unto them His Son, saying, They will reverence My Son. 38 But when the husbandmen saw the Son, they said among themselves, This is the Heir; come, let us kill Him, and let us seize on His inheritance. 39 And they caught Him, and cast Him out of the vineyard, and slew Him. 40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will He do unto those husbandmen? 41 They say unto Him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, 45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard His parables, they perceived that He spake of them.

    I've clipped what you needed to see re: this prophecy of the murder of Jesus. But the rest of the context shows the wicked men being ground to powder, as the stone of Daniel grinds to powder, the iron and clay feet of the image. Jesus expects you to see these word connections, if you have eyes to see.
     
  13. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Who exactly do you think the Devil is, The Devil is sure not Judas that's for sure.

    You haven't a clue who the son of perdition is. And it's sure not Judas, that's for sure.

    Who told you that Judas is the son of Perdition.
    There's no where in the Bible, that claims Judas as the son of perdition.

    So how or who told you that ?
     
  14. OtherSheep

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    No, it was to the Lost Sheep of the Tribe of Israel.
    Not Judah/Benjamin. That's a different kettle of fish.

    Israel has been lost for a very long time since Ashkenaz and Minni and Ararat caused the fall of Nineveh in 612 B.C. Who knows how many Manasseh-type mixtures are lost in the world, by now? But if you read ancient history, you'll see the mixture of people happening, and realize that it didn't only happen in the Bible among the Israelites and the nations around them. And since Ararat is Togarmah, who spread into Phyrgia, where another tribe of Gomer comes to live... called Galatia, who were under the Law before Saul showed up.... It's impossible to believe that no Israelite blood ever flowed in the veins of a gentile.

    And God calls Manasseh a member of Israel in Revelation. Not only because he was adopted in, but because he did something that Ephraim hasn't yet... believe Jesus. The last time we see Ephriam, he's drunk and covered with vomit.

    Yes, that is what I'm saying: If we hear Jesus' voice, we just might be a bit Israelite.
    And I don't mean the spiritualized version of... one of the Pauls.
     
    #94 OtherSheep, Jul 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  15. OtherSheep

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    Feel free to ignore me, then. :rolleyes:
     
    #95 OtherSheep, Jul 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  16. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    I'm not ignoring you, it's just your taking anything out of it's context.

    There's no where in the Bible that says Judas as being the son of perdition.

    There's only one son of Perdition and it's sure not Judas, As people are taught that it is.
     
  17. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
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    Israelite is not a blood type just like American is not. Its also not a phenotype and never was either blood or phenotype. There is no Israelite blood type, no Israelite gene, none. I am American, but my blood does not make me that. If I go somewhere I am still American, and also if I have a blood transfusion or marrow replacement. Israelite is similar and is not genetic. The Levites may adopt as can any tribe. They are like multicolored corn.

    I get the impression you are mired in imagined biblical racism. All blood is red, and the life is in the blood. Moses marries someone with a different phenotype. Caleb who inherits land is a convert. Its the egyptians who care about the firstborn, not Israel. Who are Davids ancestors? They are nobodies, and yet they are equal to kings. Ever wonder why the nazis hated judaism? Wonder why the KKK persecuted Jews? Anyone can be Jewish thats why - among other reasons.
     
  18. OtherSheep

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    You are confusing what Saul said with what Jesus says in two places. And I still haven't figured out what you're trying to say about Mark, because I don't read Mark who is not a Disciple-Apostle of Jesus.
     
  19. OtherSheep

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    Exodus 6:2 "And God spoke to Moses and said to him, I am the Lord. 3 And I appeared to Abraam and Isaac and Jacob, being their God, but I did not manifest to them My name Lord. 4 And I established My covenant with them, to give them the land of the Chananites, the land wherein they sojourned, in which also they dwelt as strangers. 5 And I hearkened to the groaning of the children of Israel (the affliction with which the Egyptians enslave them) and I remembered the covenant with you. 6 Go, speak to the children of Israel, saying, I am the Lord; and I will lead you forth from the tyranny of the Egyptians, and I will deliver you from bondage, and I will ransom you with a high arm, and great judgment. 7 And I will take you to Me a people for Myself, and will be your God; and ye shall know that I am the Lord your God, who brought you out from the tyranny of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you into the land concerning which I stretched out my hand to give it to Abraam and Isaac and Jacob, and I will give it you for an inheritance: I am the Lord."

    Matthew 10:5-6 "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

    Revelation 7:4 "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

    Matthew 22:6 "And the remnant took His servants, and entreated [them] spitefully, and slew [them]. 7 But when the king heard [thereof], He was wroth: and He sent forth His armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city."

    ____________
    The Israelites are the genetic chidren of Jacob. The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel are literally the children of Jacob, of the 10-northern tribes of the Divided Kingdom. The Bible is a literal document at every turn... except for the places where obvious similies are being used. According to the rules of Prophecy, if it makes literal sense, you must interpret it literally. If Jacob isn't literal to you, then no part of the Bible is real to you.
     
    #99 OtherSheep, Jul 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
  20. OtherSheep

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    I don't wonder about any of that, because I read history, including what people thought about the Talmud, once they read what it says about gentiles. Plus the fact of Rosa Luxemburg. The Talmud calls Jesus an idol... to worship Him in a country under the enforced Noachide Laws would mean beheading. America has such a law in place, which Trump has signed onto. It only lacks their perception that we can be dragged off in the middle of the night. It worked before, and it will work again, because people refuse to learn from history.
     
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