The Insignificance of Gilgamesh

[Earthling]

I can see by this response that you have no education at all in the sciences and are willing to listen to lying sources.

Pangaea, please note spelling, began to break up about 200 million years ago. It has nothing to do with the Noah's Ark flood myth. Laurasia and Gondwana broke up about 25 million years later, they have nothing to do with the myth either.

Yes, climates have changed over the ages. And no, Mammoths have not been found with "grass in their mouths". Grass stuck between their teeth, yes, but they did not tend to brush between meals.

If you want to be taken seriously you should see if you can support any of this with valid sources. Well you don't need valid sources for Pangaea etc., but they don't help your claims at any rate.

I simply presented a list of words. What claims have I made? What sources? There were no sources.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I simply presented a list of words. What claims have I made? What sources? There were no sources.

So being forthright is not a quality of yours.

Surely you had a point in posting those words. I am pretty sure that my assessment of you was spot on.

 

[Earthling]

So being forthright is not a quality of yours.

Surely you had a point in posting those words. I am pretty sure that my assessment of you was spot on.

That I was wrong, without making any claims, because you know my position against your agenda? That my sources were incorrect when I had none?

 

[Earthling]

Let's get back on track. The possibility that there were stories of the flood found before Moses wrote the Bible doesn't mean much of anything, for example, that the Bible copied them or the Bible can't be legitimate, agreed?

 

[Subduction Zone]

That I was wrong, without making any claims, because you know my position against your agenda? That my sources were incorrect when I had none?

What "agenda"? How is standing up for reality an agenda? And yes, like it or not you were wrong, again.

But some good news for you. You are right about Gilgamesh not affecting the historicity of the Bible. We knew that the Noah's Ark story was a myth long before the Epics of Gilgamesh entered into the argument.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Let's get back on track. The possibility that there were stories of the flood found before Moses wrote the Bible doesn't mean much of anything, for example, that the Bible copied them or the Bible can't be legitimate, agreed?

To be correct you should avoid saying "before Moses". It is a bit like using an argument saying "before the Easter Bunny". And no, there were stories of a flood, not "the flood". You are trying to support a myth with a myth. It would be wiser to find out how we know that there was no flood of Noah.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

So you're basically brushing aside the original myth (and there's more to it than his flood and his raft, by the way) for what is essentially Canaanite fan-fiction.

'Kay.

 

[David T]

If you read an article in Time magazine about some event and then later read a more detailed account in another article by another publisher it wouldn't indicate that the event didn't occur or that the later publication copied from the first. It's that simple.

Edited By Author To Add: By insignificant I mean in relation to the authenticity or historicity of the Bible.

I think you are alluding to the flood narrative.

We can today place the story geologically as far back or as recent as 12,000 15,000 AD. That would place the story out of bounds to intellectually understand it it without it being simply projection. It should be noted the story also carries with it the aspect of population bottleneck.

The problem I think you are alluding to is that some have stated that magically the Bible is invalidated because of the flood story in gilgemesh. That's like saying homo sapien is not valid because they are related to chimpanzee. Symbiosis and metamorphosis are topics not understood inspite of the reductionism blathering In science. I could roll this into music just as easily..

 

[David T]

You probably misread it and should have linked it. The Noah story was copied from the Epics of Gilgamesh, not the other way around. And the Gilgamesh story was a reworking of an even older one. Perhaps it was this article that you were talking about:

Before Noah: Myths of the Flood Are Far Older Than the Bible

At any rate there are countless reasons that we know that there was no worldwide flood.

The story is 12,000 17,000 years old.

 

[Earthling]

So you're basically brushing aside the original myth (and there's more to it than his flood and his raft, by the way) for what is essentially Canaanite fan-fiction.

'Kay.

No. Again, let me clarify. The start of the flood was about 2370 B.C.E. Moses completed Genesis about 1513 B.C.E. That's 857 years for the story of the global deluge to spread. After it happened but before Moses allegedly wrote about it.

 

[Estro Felino]

No. Again, let me clarify. The start of the flood was about 2370 B.C.E. Moses completed Genesis about 1513 B.C.E. That's 857 years for the story of the global deluge to spread. After it happened but before Moses allegedly wrote about it.

In Historiography it is a given that the Hebraic identity formed itself simultaneously with the Phoenician one. If Moses really existed, he must have lived after 1200 BC...
Both cultures developed their first systems of writing in that period.
I think both peoples colonized Canaan at the same time...

 

[Rational Agnostic]

If you read an article in Time magazine about some event and then later read a more detailed account in another article by another publisher it wouldn't indicate that the event didn't occur or that the later publication copied from the first. It's that simple.

Edited By Author To Add: By insignificant I mean in relation to the authenticity or historicity of the Bible.

So you're back. Did ya miss me too much?

 

[Earthling]

So you're back. Did ya miss me too much?

You know I did!

 

[Subduction Zone]

The story is 12,000 17,000 years old.
View attachment 22528

Not the Gillgamesh story. You are conflating two totally different floods.

 

[David T]

Not the Gillgamesh story. You are conflating two totally different floods.

Well as an analogy, curt cobains cover of lead bellys cover of unwritten oral transmitted song is exactly what we are talking about here. What exactly did you think we are talking about in Context to these ancient stories. If that isn't understood then it's just Diego Delanda and the Mayans.. These stories are way way older than writing and are clearly not literal historical transmission.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well as an analogy, curt cobains cover of lead bellys cover of unwritten oral transmitted song is exactly what we are talking about here. What exactly did you think we are talking about in Context to these ancient stories. If that isn't understood then it's just Diego Delanda and the Mayans.. These stories are way way older than writing and are clearly not literal historical transmission.

These stories are myths. Flooding happens in many different areas. People make up myths as a result. The flood that caused the Epic of Gilgamesh to be written is not the same flood as in your image.

 

[David T]

These stories are myths. Flooding happens in many different areas. People make up myths as a result. The flood that caused the Epic of Gilgamesh to be written is not the same flood as in your image.

Really I can't believe it. I thought it all happened in eastern washington. Is population. Bottleneck a myth? I thought the buffalo population going from 29 mil. To 1091 in 80 years was real.

 

[blü 2]

If you read an article in Time magazine about some event and then later read a more detailed account in another article by another publisher it wouldn't indicate that the event didn't occur or that the later publication copied from the first. It's that simple.

Edited By Author To Add: By insignificant I mean in relation to the authenticity or historicity of the Bible.

To be clear, are you arguing that at some time in human history when woodworking technology was sufficiently advanced to build a very large barge or vessel, the 'tops of the tallest mountains' were under water, as the bible says?

If not, what version of the Flood are you arguing for?

 

[Estro Felino]

These stories are myths. Flooding happens in many different areas. People make up myths as a result. The flood that caused the Epic of Gilgamesh to be written is not the same flood as in your image.

Honestly...reading some posts I'm glad I grew up in a cultural context where the Bible was dismissed as mythological book.

 

[Earthling]

To be clear, are you arguing that at some time in human history when woodworking technology was sufficiently advanced to build a very large barge or vessel, the 'tops of the tallest mountains' were under water, as the bible says?

If not, what version of the Flood are you arguing for?

That's a good question, though I don't think it's relevant to the very specific point I was trying to make in the OP.

The ark was a chest. A floating box. Affirmative on the tops of the mountains, though I don't see the relevance.