A: This is how you deal with Trump Supporters

[columbus]

I simply asked why you would want to see Trump under oath since you wouldn't believe him no matter what.

Because I see his pattern of lying, obstruction, and appointments pointing to behavior that is bordering on, if not flatly, treason.

I see quite enough evidence now to start asking the questions that he can't just blow off, claiming that the liberal media is out to get him or it's all just fake news. He will lie to the people, including his supporters. I want him to have to answer questions about his behavior in a setting that he can't just lie his way out of, banking on his supporters to dismiss the evidence in front of their noses.
Tom

 

[Stanyon]

Because I see his pattern of lying, obstruction, and appointments pointing to behavior that is bordering on, if not flatly, treason.

I see quite enough evidence now to start asking the questions that he can't just blow off, claiming that the liberal media is out to get him or it's all just fake news. He will lie to the people, including his supporters. I want him to have to answer questions about his behavior in a setting that he can't just lie his way out of, banking on his supporters to dismiss the evidence in front of their noses.
Tom

With as many enemies as he has gained and as obvious as you say his crimes are it shouldn't be anything to actually gather enough evidence to file formal charges and convict him.

 

[columbus]

With as many enemies as he has gained and as obvious as you say his crimes are it shouldn't be anything to actually gather enough evidence to file formal charges and convict him.

Trump has done a good job of obstructing the investigation, hasn't he? Maybe Comey could have cleared all this up. Maybe Trump could release enough financial records to demonstrate that he doesn't have ties to Russia. Maybe Trump could explain why he appointed Flynn to a top national security post when Flynn had to lie to get approved?
Trump could do a lot of things to clear all these questions up, if he didn't have anything to hide.
Still Waiting.
Tom

 

[Stanyon]

Trump has done a good job of obstructing the investigation, hasn't he? Maybe Comey could have cleared all this up. Maybe Trump could release enough financial records to demonstrate that he doesn't have ties to Russia. Maybe Trump could explain why he appointed Flynn to a top national security post when Flynn had to lie to get approved?
Trump could do a lot of things to clear all these questions up, if he didn't have anything to hide.
Still Waiting.
Tom

If there is enough evidence of any illegal activity he will be formally charged.

 

[columbus]

If there is enough evidence of any illegal activity he will be formally charged.

Will he?
He has gotten away with a lot in the past.
I would like to think so, but billionaires are good at buying "justice" .

One of his lawyers just claimed he paid off a porn star who boinked Trump, out of his own money and for no reason related to the Trump campaign. Because that would be wrong.
Tom

 

[Stanyon]

Will he?
He has gotten away with a lot in the past.
I would like to think so, but billionaires are good at buying "justice"

If there is enough evidence of any illegal activity he will be formally charged

One of his lawyers just claimed he paid off a porn star who boinked Trump, out of his own money and for no reason related to the Trump campaign. Because that would be wrong.
Tom

Yes, Stormy Daniels is her name and she was at LEGS Party Bar in Kansas City a week or two ago, pretty lady. If Trump actually did "boink" her then all I can say is that he has good taste!

I can PM you their link if you like

 

[columbus]

If there is enough evidence of any illegal activity he will be formally charged

Unless he and his supporters manage to obstruct the process. And enough people say "I don't care about that", which has been a common response to Trump's behavior in the past. Like when he lied multiple times about releasing his tax returns.
Tom

 

[Mindmaster]

Do you believe that two wrongs make a right?
Secondly, it is you who is playing partisan politics with this-- not me. As an example, I felt that Bill Clinton, Al Franken, and John Conyers should have resigned, and the latter two did.

Resigned for what exactly? Nothing that has been alleged has been proven, cripes even the mainstream news is dropping the Russian narrative for how ridiculous it is.

I do know that one tends to be at least somewhat like the company one tends to keep.

OK, we'll hold you responsible for every stupid legal thing your friends get in trouble with because you must have been involved. That's exactly how fair this sort of judgement is. Their stupidity reflects on you now, so I hope you keep good company, lol.

BTW, whaddya think about Trump's personal lawyer, Cohen, admitting that he paid the porn star who admitted having an affair with Trump even though Trump and Melania were only married for a few months? This is the kind of guy you want as your president, and this isn't the first time he's done stuff like this? Don't basic ethics count, and which "Old Religion" does behavior like that fit into?

I don't think anything, because it's completely irrelevant to me who Trump might have screwed or where he spends his money since it doesn't have anything to do with the job. Secondly, if his wife can deal with it (and she probably has) why should I be bothered? If it wasn't resolved, I'd imagine she'd have divorced him already. Either that, or she knows absolutely nothing happened. I still don't think it's my business any more than Clinton's affairs or JFK's.

Whatever does my "Old Religion" have to do with the discussion? My actual religious views are left nebulous here on purpose, because people like you use that as some sort of low hanging fruit to demean and disregard people without proper consideration. It was a trap, just to bait out people I'd be wasting my time with - feel salty and enjoy.

 

[Stanyon]

Like when he lied multiple times about releasing his tax returns.

If he did release his taxes I would imagine what you would get out of it is the fact that he, like anyone else, will do whatever they can to pay the least amount of taxes legally possible.

Apparently there is no law requiring anyone to release their taxes:
"Individual income tax returns — including those of public figures — are private information, protected by law from unauthorized disclosure. Indeed, the Internal Revenue Service is barred from releasing any taxpayer information whatsoever, except to authorized agencies and individuals.
Like all other citizens, U.S. presidents enjoy this protection of their privacy. Since the early 1970s, however, most presidents have chosen to release their returns publicly. In the hope of making this information more widely available, the Tax History Project at Tax Analysts has compiled an archive of presidential tax returns."
Tax History Project -- Presidential Tax Returns

 

[metis]

cripes even the mainstream news is dropping the Russian narrative for how ridiculous it is.

You must be only watching Fox because all the other networks have been covering it just about every day.

I don't think anything, because it's completely irrelevant to me who Trump might have screwed or where he spends his money since it doesn't have anything to do with the job.

So, that tells me morals are not that important to you. Did you ever stop and think that if a person acts immorally in one area that (s)he likely acts immorally in maybe some other areas? Trump's immorality extends well beyond how he has treated women.

Whatever does my "Old Religion" have to do with the discussion?

Because no religion that I'm aware of takes the kind of calloused and uncaring positions that you all so often advocate. All religions teach basic morals, and yet you continue to excuse or ignore the immoral acts of certain people that you politically agree with.

 

[Mindmaster]

You must be only watching Fox because all the other networks have been covering it just about every day.

No, I'm pretty sure only the liberal fake news sites cover it at all. But, recently... Even those haven't... Maybe somewhere far down the page, but not the front, lol. That is a notable shift... Anyway, to say what is being made these days is anything but entertainment, is a stretch. It's a bit of news with a lot of opinion. I'd tell you where I got my information, but I find it amusing that you keep up with the strawman-esque stuff and the genetic ad hominem attacks. Far be it from me to deny your addiction, I am to please.

So, that tells me morals are not that important to you. Did you ever stop and think that if a person acts immorally in one area that (s)he likely acts immorally in maybe some other areas? Trump's immorality extends well beyond how he has treated women.

You know that is not true, being a little frisky doesn't indicate that someone is involved in any other dubious behavior. That, of course, presuming said allegations are correct. These insinuations are simply a product of a panicked or wandering mind. What if Melania knows and doesn't even care? Might be much ado about nothing...

Because no religion that I'm aware of takes the kind of calloused and uncaring positions that you all so often advocate. All religions teach basic morals, and yet you continue to excuse or ignore the immoral acts of certain people that you politically agree with.

My religion says that the only person I need to worry about morally is myself, because others flaws are their own problems to sort out. In that, I give others the breadth to redeem themselves in the manner they require because in the end it is between themselves and their creator. By forming judgement on them, they would be punished for mostly minor events for the rest of their lives. It isn't my job to punish them or shame them and I won't infect my soul with anger, hatred, or malice toward anyone. Even the worst person you can conceive of can change...

 

[columbus]

If he did release his taxes I would imagine what you would get out of it is the fact that he, like anyone else, will do whatever they can to pay the least amount of taxes legally possible.

It is not a legal requirement. It didn't have to be, because every serious candidate in my adult life has done it voluntarily. It helped demonstrate that they weren't hiding conflicts of interest. If all it showed was legal tax minimizing, why is he lying and hiding them?
It would even be different if he had a public record, the way all other candidates did. Every other candidate has held high office, governor or Senator or something with a voting track record that's public. Trump doesn't. His only real credential was his vaunted business experience. His financial records would go a long way towards establishing them as bonafide.
The other side of this is the string of lies. First he said he would release them before the election. Then he lied about an audit holding up the release. Then he said he would when Obama proved he was born in the USA. Then he said he would if Hillary released a bunch of personal emails.

His pattern of lies and obstruction and appointments have given lots of people reason to suspect him of colluding with hostile foreign governments.
That's called treason.

Tom

 

[metis]

My religion says that the only person I need to worry about morally is myself,...

That's not "religion"-- that's self-centeredness that's the polar opposite of what religion teaches.

So thanks for clarifying this for us.

fini

 

[columbus]

That, of course, presuming said allegations are correct. These insinuations are simply a product of a panicked or wandering mind.

It's not just the philandering itself.
If the lawyer who claims he did the payoff himself can be shown to have an interest in keeping her quiet for political reasons it's an illegal campaign contribution. Which is legally actionable.
Tom

 

[Mindmaster]

That's not "religion"-- that's self-centeredness that's the polar opposite of what religion teaches.

So thanks for clarifying this for us.

fini

It's just a bs reason for you to attack me when you can't make a sensible argument in any way. There is no religion that says others have to live up to your moral code, they just specify a code for YOU as a follower of that. Projecting that on another person is just your own malfunctioning mind.

 

[Mindmaster]

It's not just the philandering itself.
If the lawyer who claims he did the payoff himself can be shown to have an interest in keeping her quiet for political reasons it's an illegal campaign contribution. Which is legally actionable.
Tom

No, it's not an illegal campaign contribution. She was not running for an office at the time, and that is the only thing that matters. Nothing about Trump matters in this situation, and he can hand out his money to anyone he likes. Hoooowever... It is interesting that this attorney has a business relationship with her and that the money that supposedly was Trump's was actually supplied by him. This might be a completely fake story just to sell a book.

 

[columbus]

No, it's not an illegal campaign contribution.

Yes, if he was buying her silence for political purposes then it was a campaign contribution. To Trump.
Tom

 

[Mindmaster]

Yes, if he was buying her silence for political purposes then it was a campaign contribution. To Trump.
Tom

This is a completely false statement, and incorrect no matter how you feel about it. If it was hush money, there is no law against that... So... yeah whatever... It isn't a campaign contribution if she's not running for an office... I have no idea what logic you used to believe this, but it's wrong... dead wrong...

 

[Revoltingest]

This is a completely false statement, and incorrect no matter how you feel about it. If it was hush money, there is no law against that... So... yeah whatever... It isn't a campaign contribution if she's not running for an office... I have no idea what logic you used to believe this, but it's wrong... dead wrong...

He might be arguing that the payment benefits
Trump, & is therefore a campaign contribution.
This would be a very tortured argument, but the
rampant hatred encourages such thinking.

 

[Mindmaster]

He might be arguing that the payment benefits
Trump, & is therefore a campaign contribution.
This would be a very tortured argument, but the
rampant hatred encourages such thinking.

Yeah, it might benefit Trump, but also realize that this lawyer is engaged in book deals and things with this woman. That means they both stand to financially gain if such assertion was true, and since greed is a pretty dubious foundation to truth it's more likely this is a complete scam than anything else. Since, that is the case the odds that it is a false statement increase exponentially and if we were going to "take a leap" at it, it's more likely my idea is the case. Needless to say, it's not a campaign contribution or Trump would already be facing legal problems with it. I mean, they would hammer this to no end - they're looking for things so badly they've taken to literally inventing things. That's when there is a problem in their thinking, it's not whether Trump is some especially moral character or not that is the problem.