A: This is how you deal with Trump Supporters

[Mindmaster]

This is posted mostly in reference to @Kartari's thread, but posted where opposing views can reply. (re: How Do You Deal With Trump Supporters?)

Our anger and outrage lie only in ourselves and our arrogance to presume that others are ignorant because they don't agree with us is simply a reflection of our own ignorance. Where one's own ego is bruised there is emotional upset, but let's stop pretending that's someone else's fault, eh? You choose what upsets you, you choose not to forgive them, you choose who you hate, and you've picked the viler path whether you admit it to yourself or not. The minute you move from the posture of trying to work toward the ultimate good with anyone, you've boned it. Find out why that is, but stop blaming everyone else. Even where points of disagreement will continue, you will get further with the carrot than the whip.

Moreover, blaming others for Trump's actions is equally ridiculous. They have absolutely no responsibility for what he has done, or not done. They made the decision to vote for him based on his platform, not because they're a bunch of brainwashed zombies. His failure or success can only ultimately be judged on whether he tries to keep those promises to his supporters. It will not be determined by vitriolic, egotistical, or vile people whom sabotage his efforts at every turn. No one respects those haters because they don't respect anyone else. As a serving President, regardless of who he is, attacking his office and impeding him damages our country. If you love your ideas more than you love the country the defect is in your own mind. It is nothing Trump nor anyone else can fix.

 

[Stanyon]

I have always been of the mind that it is better not to try to help the anti-Trumpeteers understand anything, let them wallow in their self pity, anger, and delusions. Like petulant children they are still screaming and crying about an election their chosen ones lost all by themselves even though much of the media assured them a victory. Unable to come to grips with this world shattering reality they cling to the only thing they have left, the false Russia narrative, a conspiracy theory that has been big on claims and very short on believable evidence. So what are they left with to salve their hurting souls besides petty attacks and unsubstantiated claims.

 

[Mindmaster]

I have always been of the mind that it is better not to try to help the anti-Trumpeteers understand anything, let them wallow in their self pity, anger, and delusions. Like petulant children they are still screaming and crying about an election their chosen ones lost all by themselves even though much of the media assured them a victory. Unable to come to grips with this world shattering reality they cling to the only thing they have left, the false Russia narrative, a conspiracy theory that has been big on claims and very short on believable evidence. So what are they left with to salve their hurting souls besides petty attacks and unsubstantiated claims.

I will just never side with the mean, vile, and nasty even if I would agree with them otherwise. It's not their views I particularly disagree with - it's their acts. Everyone that disagrees is painted as some sort of racist, nazi, or some other insulting remark. I refuse to let any of this nasty behavior infect my soul, nor would I support it in any way willingly. The details are almost irrelevant, as whether certain individual facts are true or not it doesn't take away from this fundamental problem. We can't go this way and get anything good from it, so why entertain it? That, in a nutshell, is where I am at. One group is working to belittle and dehumanize people, and I'll never support it.

 

[Skwim]

This is posted mostly in reference to @Kartari's thread, but posted where opposing views can reply. (re: How Do You Deal With Trump Supporters?)

Our anger and outrage lie only in ourselves and our arrogance to presume that others are ignorant because they don't agree with us is simply a reflection of our own ignorance. Where one's own ego is bruised there is emotional upset, but let's stop pretending that's someone else's fault, eh? You choose what upsets you, you choose not to forgive them, you choose who you hate, and you've picked the viler path whether you admit it to yourself or not. The minute you move from the posture of trying to work toward the ultimate good with anyone, you've boned it. Find out why that is, but stop blaming everyone else. Even where points of disagreement will continue, you will get further with the carrot than the whip.

Moreover, blaming others for Trump's actions is equally ridiculous. They have absolutely no responsibility for what he has done, or not done. They made the decision to vote for him based on his platform, not because they're a bunch of brainwashed zombies. His failure or success can only ultimately be judged on whether he tries to keep those promises to his supporters. It will not be determined by vitriolic, egotistical, or vile people whom sabotage his efforts at every turn. No one respects that haters because they don't respect anyone else. As a serving President, regardless of who he is, attacking his office and impeding him damages our country. If you love your ideas more than you love the country the defect is in your own mind. It is nothing Trump nor anyone else can fix.

Ah, you might want to revisit kaetari's post, read it with an open mind, and then respond in a creditable manner. .............Or not.

.

 

[Mindmaster]

Ah, you might want to revisit kaetari's post, read it with an open mind, and then respond in a creditable manner. .............Or not.

.

What is not credible about addressing that post the way I did?

I mean you're not even giving me anything to respond to here, lol.

I'm not really trying to address the meanderings of that post, but rather what the flaws of that worldview are. These things are in your head:

1) Fear (self-created, generally)
2) Hate (never justified)
3) Intolerance to people with different views (ego, arrogance)
4) Blaming others for someone else's failings, and damning them. (guilty by association)

There is no need for me to address these mental limitations, but rather refute them as the ghosts of one's own mind and leave it there and condemn them for generally not being good behavior in the long run.

 

[Revoltingest]

I have always been of the mind that it is better not to try to help the anti-Trumpeteers understand anything, let them wallow in their self pity, anger, and delusions. Like petulant children they are still screaming and crying about an election their chosen ones lost all by themselves even though much of the media assured them a victory. Unable to come to grips with this world shattering reality they cling to the only thing they have left, the false Russia narrative, a conspiracy theory that has been big on claims and very short on believable evidence. So what are they left with to salve their hurting souls besides petty attacks and unsubstantiated claims.

This sounds like a recipe for living in an echo chamber.
Should I eschew lively discussion with my friends who
wanted Hillary? Nah. Life would be less interesting.
Echo chambers are evil. Corrupt them with diversity
of thought, & civil discourse.

 

[PureX]

It is clear to me that there is no effective way of responding to people who support Trump, and the insane, destructive desires that Trump represents.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is clear to me that there is no effective way of responding to people who support Trump, and the insane, destructive desires that Trump represents.

Employing thoughtful discussion, I have helped in the
recovery of bigoted fundies, racists, & even socialists.
How dare you deny them your wisdom & insights!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Our anger and outrage lie only in ourselves and our arrogance to presume that others are ignorant because they don't agree with us is simply a reflection of our own ignorance.

Don’t assume that just because someone disagrees with you and thinks you’re ignorant that they think you’re ignorant because they disagree with you.

I will just never side with the mean, vile, and nasty even if I would agree with them otherwise. It's not their views I particularly disagree with - it's their acts. Everyone that disagrees is painted as some sort of racist, nazi, or some other insulting remark.

Not everyone; only the racists.

It’s true that Trump’s policies and platforms do have many racist elements. It’s also true that many racists - including actual Neo-Nazis - have been emboldened by Trump’s win, but this doesn’t mean that all of his supporters are racist. People can support him without being racists themselves. They’re not necessarily racist; they’re just people who don’t see racist policy planks as a deal-breaker.

 

[PureX]

Employing thoughtful discussion, I have helped in the
recovery of bigoted fundies, racists, & even socialists.
How dare you deny them your wisdom & insights!

In my experience, willful ignorance is just that: willful. And when combined with the stupidity it tends to generate, it becomes insanely intractable. Like pushing a river back up a hill. Once the dam of reason breaks, there is no stopping the flow of stupid that it was holding in check.

 

[Revoltingest]

In my experience, willful ignorance is just that: willful. And when combined with the stupidity it tends to generate, it becomes insanely intractable. Like pushing a river back up a hill. Once the dam of reason breaks, there is no stopping the flow of stupid that it was holding in check.

Sounds like a good excuse to avoid discussing issues with people who disagree.
If I avoided talking to "insanely intractable" posters on RF, my post count would plummet.
(People aren't as immutable as you think.)

 

[Stanyon]

In my experience, willful ignorance is just that: willful. And when combined with the stupidity it tends to generate, it becomes insanely intractable. Like pushing a river back up a hill. Once the dam of reason breaks, there is no stopping the flow of stupid that it was holding in check.

That river flows many ways you know

 

[icehorse]

How about we discuss and debate trump's ideas and actions? My personal take is that there are dyed in the wool trump supporters who will not engage in any sort of rational conversation. But there are others who will engage, and we should attempt to engage with those folks.

(As an aside, just because I'm anti-trump doesn't mean I'm pro-Hillary, I was mortified by both candidates.)

 

[icehorse]

That river flows many ways you know

say what?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How about we discuss and debate trump's ideas and actions? My personal take is that there are dyed in the wool trump supporters who will not engage in any sort of rational conversation. But there are others who will engage, and we should attempt to engage with those folks.

(As an aside, just because I'm anti-trump doesn't mean I'm pro-Hillary, I was mortified by both candidates.)

I do wish there was more debate on policy. It bugs me when I see anti-Trump stuff in my social media feeds that’s just making fun of his hair, his weight, how Melanie doesn’t seem to be happy to be around him, or that “covfefe” nonsense. There’s lots to criticize in his actual policies and all that junk is a distraction.

 

[YmirGF]

I do wish there was more debate on policy. It bugs me when I see anti-Trump stuff in my social media feeds that’s just making fun of his hair, his weight, how Melanie doesn’t seem to be happy to be around him, or that “covfefe” nonsense. There’s lots to criticize in his actual policies and all that junk is a distraction.

I definitely agree, but it is the sad truth that we entered the Ad hominem era awhile back. My guess is that policy discussions are incredibly complex and not easy to critique while it is child's play to attack the person. Have we become a race of lazy and highly reactionary thinkers?

 

[Stanyon]

It is clear to me that there is no effective way of responding to people who support Trump, and the insane, destructive desires that Trump represents.

If you honestly feel that way I fully encourage you to go to the polls and vote your conscience when it is time.

 

[columbus]

As a serving President, regardless of who he is, attacking his office and impeding him damages our country.

Part of the virulence of the anti-Trump people is the huge hypocrisy of this statement.
I don't necessarily mean you, personally, because I don't know you well enough. But Trump supporters, as a group, have been attacking the sitting president since the 90s. The crap flung at President Clinton was hugely damaging to the USA. The country was doing great, so the Republicans managed to turn a BJ into an impeachable offense. Then Bush II blew up the Middle East, trashed the economy, sent the Federal debt into disaster, and started the police state. And was consistently defended by the people who now support Trump. Then Obama got elected by the USA electorate and the partisan attacks resumed, full tilt boogie!
And Trump was doing it himself! He was a rock solid Birther until late in the campaign. Claiming that Obama is a Kenyan born Muslim. That Obama is a communist. Etc etc etc.

Now the Basket of Deplorables is squealing "We should respect the president. He cheated his way into office fair and square!"
Trump has been lying since the day he first began his run for office. He has given evidence of having a potentially treasonous relationship with Putin's Russia. He has done a great job of dividing this country, and empowering some of our worst elements.

So, instead of making up things to criticize(the way the Deplorables did Obama) , Trump has created a bunch of stuff to virulently criticize.
And instead of actually responding to the facts, the Deplorables generally deflect. From "But Hillary. .." to "Stop whining!", I find it nearly impossible to get Trump supporters to have a discussion that isn't rife with nonsense.
It gets frustrating.
Tom

 

[Stanyon]

The crap flung at President Clinton was hugely damaging to the USA. The country was doing great, so the Republicans managed to turn a BJ into an impeachable offense.

That was about a sexual harassment lawsuit, perjury, and obstruction of justice, not a blowie and a cigar (had to throw the cigar in)

 

[columbus]

That was about a sexual harassment lawsuit, perjury, and obstruction of justice, not a blowie and a cigar (had to throw the cigar in)

Put Trump on the stand, under oath, and start asking him embarrassing questions.
Then let things take their course.

How about that?
Tom