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Have Evangelicals Destroyed Christian Morality in the US?

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Colorado Springs, where I live, is the home of over 300 Christian non-profit "ministries", including Focus on the Family. Focus on the Family is a large Evangelical organization founded by James Dobson that, among other things, seeks to influence politics in the US on all levels. It is especially notorious for its attacks on the rights of LGBT folks, but its activism doesn't stop there. It pushes a broad social and political agenda.

Some long time ago, I came across a chilling quote of Dobson's in the local newspaper. It was from around the time when he founded Focus on the Family. I can no longer recall the exact words he used but I believe this is an accurate paraphrase:

"People have got it wrong. They think Christian morals are about old ladies being nice, sweet, treating everyone fairly. But that's only the velvet glove of Christianity. We are going to show people the iron fist. We are going to change how people view Christianity. We are going to make sinners fear us."​

Now, I don't suppose everyone who is younger than about 40 these days is fully aware of how Christianity and Christian morals were most often thought of by most people back before James Dobson and other Evangelical leaders changed the public perception of the religion. However, I've heard more than one person my own age or older speak with regret about the "old days".

You see, back in the old days, the most popular view was that Christians -- if and when they lived up to their ideals -- had exemplary morals. In fact, it was not uncommon to think and speak of "true Christians" as the most moral people in any given community -- even the most moral people possible.

To call someone a "True Christian" in most communities was to say in effect that they treated everyone, regardless of their background (such as race, social and economic class, religion, etc) with fairness, dignity, and respect. It was to say that they were a gentle person who rigorously avoided unnecessarily hurting anyone, who readily forgave any slights against themselves, who ever sought to see the best in others (even people considered grievous sinners), and who strove to be the most humane person they themselves could be.

And that was just the start of it. In the popular imagination, a true Christian was the peak, the acme of human moral excellence. The phrase, true Christian, even at times was applied to people who were not Christians, as in, "He's Jewish, but he's more of a True Christian than most Christians".

Of course, there were people who didn't hold such a positive view of Christian morals, but they seemed to me a relatively small minority at the time. The main criticism you heard of Christians was that they didn't always live up to their ideals, not that their ideals were bad or evil.

I think it's very different today. The custom of praising someone for being a true Christian is almost unheard of now. So many people these days find that they disagree with what passes for core Christian values now -- anti-choice, anti-LGBT rights, anti-evolution, anti-climate change, pro prosperity gospel, and even willing to condone such evils as racism, sexism, sexual molestation, wealth inequality, and so forth if it is politically expedient to do so. Political power at all cost. That's what Christianity -- in moral terms -- has come to mean for so many people today.

I think Evangelicals -- the folks who by all accounts led this change -- were deeply unwise to do so. I suspect that the coming years will see interest in their brand of Christianity wane with most morally healthy people while it yet increases with the morally insane.

But what do you think?

For further reading: The Death of Christianity in the US. An angry, but I think fairly accurate condemnation of today's Evangelical values.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
No arguments here.

I can't do anything about what they are doing, other than condemn it.

So I just do the best I can to show there is another way.
 

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
I concur completely.
I’ve been saying this to anyone who will listen for about a year now.

They don’t possess truth and goodness, so in the long run they will lose.
It’s been happening since man invented religion. One religion or another has found a way to bring ugliness to the world in the name of God. But civilization advances in spite of them.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Wow from what i’ve read, Evangelicals really are like a political party masquerading as Christian.

A political party masquerading as Christian. That might be a good way of putting it -- with the caveat that it's more Evangelical leaders doing that than it is rank and file Evangelicals.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
CxIKULN.jpg

20120606-083529.jpg

CaPEmAXUkAA35FH.jpg
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Christian morality is still alive and well in the US but does not get any headlines. There are groups in my area who have a mission to help the poor and so forth.

But it is true that the word 'evangelical' has become so tainted that even theological conservatives are unhappy.

Pointing out the meaning has 'changed drastically' since he founded Redeemer Presbyterian Church, New York in 1989, he wrote: 'People who once called themselves the "Moral Majority" are now seemingly willing to vote for anyone, however immoral, who supports their political positions.'


'"Evangelical" used to denote people who claimed the high moral ground; now, in popular usage, the word is nearly synonymous with "hypocrite." When I used the word to describe myself in the 1970s, it meant I was not a fundamentalist. If I use the name today, however, it means to hearers that I am.'


In a subtle dig at fellow evangelical leaders he said: 'The conservative leaders who have come to be most identified with the movement have largely driven this redefinition.'

Tim Keller: Evangelicals are viewed with 'fury' and 'disgust' because of taint of Trump and Moore
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Colorado Springs, where I live, is the home of over 300 Christian non-profit "ministries", including Focus on the Family. Focus on the Family is a large Evangelical organization founded by James Dobson that, among other things, seeks to influence politics in the US on all levels. It is especially notorious for its attacks on the rights of LGBT folks, but its activism doesn't stop there. It pushes a broad social and political agenda.

Some long time ago, I came across a chilling quote of Dobson's in the local newspaper. It was from around the time when he founded Focus on the Family. I can no longer recall the exact words he used but I believe this is an accurate paraphrase:

"People have got it wrong. They think Christian morals are about old ladies being nice, sweet, treating everyone fairly. But that's only the velvet glove of Christianity. We are going to show people the iron fist. We are going to change how people view Christianity. We are going to make sinners fear us."​

Now, I don't suppose everyone who is younger than about 40 these days is fully aware of how Christianity and Christian morals were most often thought of by most people back before James Dobson and other Evangelical leaders changed the public perception of the religion. However, I've heard more than one person my own age or older speak with regret about the "old days".

You see, back in the old days, the most popular view was that Christians -- if and when they lived up to their ideals -- had exemplary morals. In fact, it was not uncommon to think and speak of "true Christians" as the most moral people in any given community -- even the most moral people possible.

To call someone a "True Christian" in most communities was to say in effect that they treated everyone, regardless of their background (such as race, social and economic class, religion, etc) with fairness, dignity, and respect. It was to say that they were a gentle person who rigorously avoided unnecessarily hurting anyone, who readily forgave any slights against themselves, who ever sought to see the best in others (even people considered grievous sinners), and who strove to be the most humane person they themselves could be.

And that was just the start of it. In the popular imagination, a true Christian was the peak, the acme of human moral excellence. The phrase, true Christian, even at times was applied to people who were not Christians, as in, "He's Jewish, but he's more of a True Christian than most Christians".

Of course, there were people who didn't hold such a positive view of Christian morals, but they seemed to me a relatively small minority at the time. The main criticism you heard of Christians was that they didn't always live up to their ideals, not that their ideals were bad or evil.

I think it's very different today. The custom of praising someone for being a true Christian is almost unheard of now. So many people these days find that they disagree with what passes for core Christian values now -- anti-choice, anti-LGBT rights, anti-evolution, anti-climate change, pro prosperity gospel, and even willing to condone such evils as racism, sexism, sexual molestation, wealth inequality, and so forth if it is politically expedient to do so. Political power at all cost. That's what Christianity -- in moral terms -- has come to mean for so many people today.

I think Evangelicals -- the folks who by all accounts led this change -- were deeply unwise to do so. I suspect that the coming years will see interest in their brand of Christianity wane with most morally healthy people while it yet increases with the morally insane.

But what do you think?

For further reading: The Death of Christianity in the US. An angry, but I think fairly accurate condemnation of today's Evangelical values.
I think that any hypocrisy shown by Christians only deteriorates the religion further. I try not to use the no true Scotsman fallacy but I think there is such a thing as a true Christian. It reminds me of this video it should be shared where a pastor pretended to be a homeless person.

Matthew 25:34-40
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
Colorado Springs, where I live, is the home of over 300 Christian non-profit "ministries", including Focus on the Family. Focus on the Family is a large Evangelical organization founded by James Dobson that, among other things, seeks to influence politics in the US on all levels. It is especially notorious for its attacks on the rights of LGBT folks, but its activism doesn't stop there. It pushes a broad social and political agenda.

Some long time ago, I came across a chilling quote of Dobson's in the local newspaper. It was from around the time when he founded Focus on the Family. I can no longer recall the exact words he used but I believe this is an accurate paraphrase:

"People have got it wrong. They think Christian morals are about old ladies being nice, sweet, treating everyone fairly. But that's only the velvet glove of Christianity. We are going to show people the iron fist. We are going to change how people view Christianity. We are going to make sinners fear us."​

Now, I don't suppose everyone who is younger than about 40 these days is fully aware of how Christianity and Christian morals were most often thought of by most people back before James Dobson and other Evangelical leaders changed the public perception of the religion. However, I've heard more than one person my own age or older speak with regret about the "old days".

You see, back in the old days, the most popular view was that Christians -- if and when they lived up to their ideals -- had exemplary morals. In fact, it was not uncommon to think and speak of "true Christians" as the most moral people in any given community -- even the most moral people possible.

To call someone a "True Christian" in most communities was to say in effect that they treated everyone, regardless of their background (such as race, social and economic class, religion, etc) with fairness, dignity, and respect. It was to say that they were a gentle person who rigorously avoided unnecessarily hurting anyone, who readily forgave any slights against themselves, who ever sought to see the best in others (even people considered grievous sinners), and who strove to be the most humane person they themselves could be.

And that was just the start of it. In the popular imagination, a true Christian was the peak, the acme of human moral excellence. The phrase, true Christian, even at times was applied to people who were not Christians, as in, "He's Jewish, but he's more of a True Christian than most Christians".

Of course, there were people who didn't hold such a positive view of Christian morals, but they seemed to me a relatively small minority at the time. The main criticism you heard of Christians was that they didn't always live up to their ideals, not that their ideals were bad or evil.

I think it's very different today. The custom of praising someone for being a true Christian is almost unheard of now. So many people these days find that they disagree with what passes for core Christian values now -- anti-choice, anti-LGBT rights, anti-evolution, anti-climate change, pro prosperity gospel, and even willing to condone such evils as racism, sexism, sexual molestation, wealth inequality, and so forth if it is politically expedient to do so. Political power at all cost. That's what Christianity -- in moral terms -- has come to mean for so many people today.

I think Evangelicals -- the folks who by all accounts led this change -- were deeply unwise to do so. I suspect that the coming years will see interest in their brand of Christianity wane with most morally healthy people while it yet increases with the morally insane.

But what do you think?

For further reading: The Death of Christianity in the US. An angry, but I think fairly accurate condemnation of today's Evangelical values.
I straight-up shared this post with a lot of Christian friends of mine. If this were Reddit, this is what I'd do to the upvote button:
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I think Evangelicals -- the folks who by all accounts led this change -- were deeply unwise to do so. I suspect that the coming years will see interest in their brand of Christianity wane with most morally healthy people while it yet increases with the morally insane.

But what do you think?
I think you are defining a brand of Christianity that is ruled by ego, and by it's pretense of righteousness, rather then by the spirit of love, forgiveness, kindness, and generosity that 'Christ' embodies. And I think the failure occurred because even back in the "good old days" the various churches of the Christian faith found it more convenient to preach faith as being obedience to religious dogma, rather than faith being action founded in our hope for a better humanity; a humanity that reflects the loving spirit of it's Divine Creator.

It's the ego that craves obedience, and that inspires willful ignorance of our own flaws, while glorifying the flaws of others. And this is the sin that so many of the self-proclaimed Christians and their respective churches have succumbed to. As Thomas Merton once wrote, "A Pharisee is a man who's righteousness is nourished by the blood of sinners". This is what these people have become - modern day Pharisees. And they've done so because the illusion of their own righteousness has become their primary concern.

But I would add that they had help in choosing their own egos over the Divine Spirit that their religion proclaimed to be their salvation. And that help came from the corruption of our whole culture by the unfettered greed of capitalism. Everything of value in this world has become commodified by the systemic greed of capitalism. The serving of self is the endless and ever-present message being blasted at us from every media outlet we encounter; "consume, consume, consume; want, and want, and want more". Commercial advertising has been brainwashing us all to be more selfish, and more desirous, and to covet wealth and power because wealth and power are now the measure and substance life, itself. And of freedom, and of opportunity.

These are the lies we all now take to be reality. And so they have become our reality. So it's not surprising that so many modern day Christians have succumbed to this same sickness within their religious ideology and practice. Bigotry is just the act of turning strangers into another consumer product, in our minds, to be used to serve the endless desire of our own egos to be more righteous and superior than everyone else.
 
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pearl

Well-Known Member
I don't think that Christian morality has been destroyed due to only one segment of Christians, Evangelicals, but they have certainly reduced its claim to morality by rendering it irrelevant with its 'the end justifies the means', and have, I believe, corrupted the principles of morality in favor of a political agenda.

"For much of American history, evangelicalism was aligned with progressive political causes.

Nineteenth century evangelicals fought for the abolition of slavery, universal suffrage, and public education. But contemporary evangelicals have defaulted on this majestic legacy, embracing instead an agenda virtually indistinguishable from the Republican Party platform."

'Thy Kingdom Come An Evangelical's Lament'

Randall Balmer
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I think that any hypocrisy shown by Christians only deteriorates the religion further. I try not to use the no true Scotsman fallacy but I think there is such a thing as a true Christian. It reminds me of this video it should be shared where a pastor pretended to be a homeless person.

Matthew 25:34-40
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Interesting video. Too bad more new pastors aren't doing that.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Colorado Springs, where I live, is the home of over 300 Christian non-profit "ministries", including Focus on the Family. Focus on the Family is a large Evangelical organization founded by James Dobson that, among other things, seeks to influence politics in the US on all levels. It is especially notorious for its attacks on the rights of LGBT folks, but its activism doesn't stop there. It pushes a broad social and political agenda.

Some long time ago, I came across a chilling quote of Dobson's in the local newspaper. It was from around the time when he founded Focus on the Family. I can no longer recall the exact words he used but I believe this is an accurate paraphrase:

"People have got it wrong. They think Christian morals are about old ladies being nice, sweet, treating everyone fairly. But that's only the velvet glove of Christianity. We are going to show people the iron fist. We are going to change how people view Christianity. We are going to make sinners fear us."​

Now, I don't suppose everyone who is younger than about 40 these days is fully aware of how Christianity and Christian morals were most often thought of by most people back before James Dobson and other Evangelical leaders changed the public perception of the religion. However, I've heard more than one person my own age or older speak with regret about the "old days".

You see, back in the old days, the most popular view was that Christians -- if and when they lived up to their ideals -- had exemplary morals. In fact, it was not uncommon to think and speak of "true Christians" as the most moral people in any given community -- even the most moral people possible.

To call someone a "True Christian" in most communities was to say in effect that they treated everyone, regardless of their background (such as race, social and economic class, religion, etc) with fairness, dignity, and respect. It was to say that they were a gentle person who rigorously avoided unnecessarily hurting anyone, who readily forgave any slights against themselves, who ever sought to see the best in others (even people considered grievous sinners), and who strove to be the most humane person they themselves could be.

And that was just the start of it. In the popular imagination, a true Christian was the peak, the acme of human moral excellence. The phrase, true Christian, even at times was applied to people who were not Christians, as in, "He's Jewish, but he's more of a True Christian than most Christians".

Of course, there were people who didn't hold such a positive view of Christian morals, but they seemed to me a relatively small minority at the time. The main criticism you heard of Christians was that they didn't always live up to their ideals, not that their ideals were bad or evil.

I think it's very different today. The custom of praising someone for being a true Christian is almost unheard of now. So many people these days find that they disagree with what passes for core Christian values now -- anti-choice, anti-LGBT rights, anti-evolution, anti-climate change, pro prosperity gospel, and even willing to condone such evils as racism, sexism, sexual molestation, wealth inequality, and so forth if it is politically expedient to do so. Political power at all cost. That's what Christianity -- in moral terms -- has come to mean for so many people today.

I think Evangelicals -- the folks who by all accounts led this change -- were deeply unwise to do so. I suspect that the coming years will see interest in their brand of Christianity wane with most morally healthy people while it yet increases with the morally insane.

But what do you think?

For further reading: The Death of Christianity in the US. An angry, but I think fairly accurate condemnation of today's Evangelical values.

What I've noticed is that a lot of people in this category believe that one can be saved by faith alone, that one's "works" don't really matter, whether they're good works or evil works. That seems to be the loophole that they're operating under, that all they have to do is have faith in Christ, and then they can do whatever they want.

I'm reminded of the time when Jimmy Swaggart was caught with a prostitute and trying to hide girly mags under the seat of his car when he was pulled over. And then he made this tearful confession to his flock that "I have sinned."

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
A song...

People have got it wrong.
They think Christian morals are about old ladies
(pastors, pervs and crazies)
being nice, sweet, treating everyone fairly.
But that's only the velvet glove of Christianity.
We are going to show people the iron fist.
(No opportunity missed)
We are going to change how people view Christianity.
We are going to make sinners fear us."

CHORUS

The roof is on fire
Mes gars sont tous die [All my men are dead]
La miss, elle fait des manières [The lady, she does it her way]
Et, moi, j'suis complètement ailleurs [And me, I'm away!]
ASKIP! [It seems like it!]

Yes people are oh so wrong.
I kill those godamned sinners with my fire daily
(And the pastors, pervs and crazies)
I call it new street justice à la Jesus.
Yeah, gonna make those sinners fear us.
We've drawn ourselves a hit list
(No opportunity missed)
Off with the kid gloves here we come.
We are going to make sinners fear us.

CHORUS

The roof is on fire
Mes gars sont tous die [All my men are dead]
La miss, elle fait des manières [The lady, she does it her way]
Et, moi, j'suis complètement ailleurs [And me, I'm away!]
ASKIP! [It seems like it!]

Sorry @Sunstone, couldn't resist.

[Actual ASKIP lyrics too]
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
An interesting poll of Catholics and how they voted was reported in "America" magazine (Jesuit) back last summer, and here's what they found with the Catholic vote (rounded down because I can't remember what the last digit was): 40% voted for Trump; 60% of "white" Catholics voted for Trump; but only 20% of Catholics who went to mass weekly or more voted for Trump (mass is said everyday in most RCC).
 

PureX

Veteran Member
What I've noticed is that a lot of people in this category believe that one can be saved by faith alone, that one's "works" don't really matter, whether they're good works or evil works. That seems to be the loophole that they're operating under, that all they have to do is have faith in Christ, and then they can do whatever they want.
Yes, and they interpret that word "faith" to mean an unquestioned and unwavering adherence/obedience to their religious dogma. Which is not faith at all, but is just the blind pretense of their own absolute righteousness.
 
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