Why do Christians defend the horrendously brutal and genocidal God of the Old Testament?

[Jainarayan]

to understand OT you need to understand this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)

Cognitive dissonance too: what does or does not make sense v. what is being said by "authority" figures.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I thought the article you included from Answers in Genesis was excellent. Thanks for posting it.

I don't think Christians defend the brutality of the OT which is upsetting you so much. I'm sure it is just as upsetting to any Christians. What Christians are defending is God's character because God as the Creator sees and understands the big picture, as well as the details of each situation, that you or I have no way of knowing or understanding. God alone is in the position to determine what is good and righteous and what is evil and depraved and when to bring judgement upon people or groups. If God who sees all and knows all had specific and valid reasons for His actions in the OT , then how do you from a limited, finite, and disconnected position presume to judge His motives?

It's not upsetting to me at all. :0)

It's a topic of debate that I find interesting as is with apologetics.

As a former Christian, I feel Christianity shouldn't be immune as with any other religion in face of asking very hard and difficult questions.

It's along the same vein by which many EX religious point out critical flaws and various discrepancies of their former affiliations, using debate as an excellent medium to get critical points addressed, and contested and bring such topics out into the open as the case here.

To continue on with the latter part of your statement...

There is supposedly a virtue of discernment, that of the knowledge of good and evil by which we "limited, finite, and disconnected" life-forms are able to distinguish. Right ?

Yet for some reason or another cannot apply in one context such actions perpetrated by God, but fully apply in another that is perpetrated by man or humankind, involving the same exact things by which this discernment has been based. How do you explain the clear contradiction then?

It's interesting that you would omit God from any and all wrongdoing based on the the same standards that have been brought forth in the Old Testament, by standards of Good and Evil that are established in the New Testament.

If you can't call God evil, it stands that you cannot call God good either.

Remember the verses about being lukewarm?

 

[Jainarayan]

Why do Christians even attempt to defend this, and then further say God is always good and righteous when in fact much of the Old Testament is choc full of God's actions and deeds that point to the extreme opposite of what good and righteousness is supposed to be?

Cognitive dissonance.

Btw, I have my own theory and beliefs about the bullying nature of the biblical God...

See, what I believe is that he is no different than any other asura or rakshasa running amok and bullying the universe... e.g. Mahabali, Hiranyakashipu, Ravana, Mahishasura, or any of that ilk. And we know what happened to them. For reasons I'm too small and human to understand, Lord Vishnu is letting him run amok and giving him enough rope. Scriptures say we have to wait another 428,898 years before Vishnu appears on Earth again to kick butt (seems his work is never done). Yeah well, I haven't got all day, er I mean eternity.

 

[osgart]

I thought the article you included from Answers in Genesis was excellent. Thanks for posting it.

I don't think Christians defend the brutality of the OT which is upsetting you so much. I'm sure it is just as upsetting to any Christians. What Christians are defending is God's character because God as the Creator sees and understands the big picture, as well as the details of each situation, that you or I have no way of knowing or understanding. God alone is in the position to determine what is good and righteous and what is evil and depraved and when to bring judgement upon people or groups. If God who sees all and knows all had specific and valid reasons for His actions in the OT , then how do you from a limited, finite, and disconnected position presume to judge His motives?

Why should humans carry out God's judgment to kill certain groups and possess the land? And doesn't that violate the commandment 'thou shall not kill'.

Shouldn't God carry out the authority of his own actions, and not leave it to humans to do his bidding?

Blind submission isn't reasonable, or just.

God should rather introduce God's own motives, and judgments, and than carry those out by his own power and authority and not leave it to humans.

The hands of justice should rule the earth, and not allow violence and crime to run free to this day.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

To correct your error in thinking?

According to the "evidence", God has had a gun to humanity's head on multiple occasions. Even demanding compliance under the threat of killing the non-compliant parties' children.

When a human does things like this, we lock them away without regret. When God does it, He's supposed to be respected, feared and even worshipped.

I don't care if God actually did create me... I am currently (and for the foreseeable future) incapable of respecting Him, plain and simple.

 

[Skwim]

First of all OT is intended for people who lived 3500 or so years ago, it is intended for Sons of Israel ONLY, it is not intended for people of modern type of consciousness, it was intended first of all for people with Cain type of consciousness who would kill their own brothers, parents, e.t.c. People of Cain type of consciousness need a different approach to explain things, they do not understand "do not murder' unless an authority of terrible punishment ( from God) unless the sword of punishment is constantly over their head .

So, just because it's no longer intended for Christians---I assume this is your point---does this make everything said about god false?

.

 

[socharlie]

So, just because it's no longer intended for Christians---I assume this is your point---does this make everything said about god false?

.

I imply that whoever wrote OT had a noble intentions and our judgement of those intentions should stop with those times, places and people. God is not false. We just do not understand God.

 

[Srivijaya]

"What is bad when we do it is good when when god does it. How much simpler can it get? Case closed. Now, let's move on to something other than god's "goodness." Shall we?

.

"God made the world. He gets to make the rules!"

Recently seen on a board outside a Baptist Church in my town.

 

[socharlie]

"God made the world. He gets to make the rules!"

Recently seen on a board outside a Baptist Church in my town.

They refer to demiurge...

 

[Srivijaya]

They refer to demiurge...

Only if you're a heretical Gnostic. Those guys have god on their side and they're happy to let you know it.

 

[james dixon]

Because it is part of our history?

b.t.w. the bible Jesus was teaching from; was what we now call the Old Testament.

in my view at least -

 

[Twilight Hue]

"God made the world. He gets to make the rules!"

Recently seen on a board outside a Baptist Church in my town.

I figure if rules apply, then why would God instruct people who supposedly had a knowledge of Good and Evil to go and do evil horrible things in his name?

 

[Srivijaya]

I figure if rules apply, then why would God instruct people who supposedly had a knowledge of Good and Evil to go and do evil horrible things in his name?

I'll check the board next time I drive past. They might have an answer to that question on it.

 

[Baroodi]

The god of the Old Testament is evil depraved and vicious demanding complete subjugation.

Why do Christians even attempt to defend this, and then further say God is always good and righteous when in fact much of the Old Testament is choc full of God's actions and deeds that point to the extreme opposite of what good and righteousness is supposed to be?

I'll start off with this rather bizarre response from one of our favorite apologists on the subject of an evil God, Answers in Genesis.


https://answersingenesis.org/who-is...ld-testament-harsh-brutal-and-downright-evil/

That is not the real God, most of the old testament is fabricated by the jews who killed many of their own prophets and who disobeyed God orders after seeing very clear signs from God. The Original revelation to Moses was lost. So nothing pristine is available regarding that relic.

 

[Skwim]

I imply that whoever wrote OT had a noble intentions and our judgement of those intentions should stop with those times, places and people.

But I'm not making any judgement about anyone's intentions. I'm simply asking:

In light of the your claim that the OT is not intended for Christians, does this make everything said in it about god, false?

"God made the world. He gets to make the rules!"

Recently seen on a board outside a Baptist Church in my town.

And who gets to interpret those rules? Don't suppose it could be the Baptist Church in your town by any chance, do you. Nah!

.

 

[74x12]

The god of the Old Testament is evil depraved and vicious demanding complete subjugation.

Why do Christians even attempt to defend this, and then further say God is always good and righteous when in fact much of the Old Testament is choc full of God's actions and deeds that point to the extreme opposite of what good and righteousness is supposed to be?

I'll start off with this rather bizarre response from one of our favorite apologists on the subject of an evil God, Answers in Genesis.


https://answersingenesis.org/who-is...ld-testament-harsh-brutal-and-downright-evil/

It's a loaded question. "Why do Christians attempt to defend this". You're already assuming God is what you say.

Where would we be without fire? Fire gives us warmth. Allows us to cook(purify) our food. Create combustion engines. Even our very bodies are generating energy through combustion. So we wouldn't live without fire. Fire is inside of us as long as we live. Yet, fire can be very dangerous if we aren't careful and respect the fire. We tell little kids "don't play with matches" for a reason. But, we don't say "matches are evil".

In the old days sailors really respected the sea. They may have loved their sailor lives on the sea but they knew the sea had to be respected. They did not hate the sea because it was dangerous; it was also beneficial. They made their living on the sea. They traveled the world. They got fish etc. Why don't people respect God who is greater than the sea and yet gives us all things that we enjoy?

God is a consuming fire. (Deut. 4:24) He hasn't changed. He's not evil. He's holy. He is the way He is whether anyone approves or not. On the other hand He's loving, merciful. This is seen throughout the old Testament as well as His holy "fire" nature. God is a fire and we have to come to terms with reality.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That is not the real God, most of the old testament is fabricated by the jews who killed many of their own prophets and who disobeyed God orders after seeing very clear signs from God. The Original revelation to Moses was lost. So nothing pristine is available regarding that relic.

That being the case, then why is the Old Testament still gladly accepted as part of Christian Canon? Christian's ought to condemn it by saying the Old Testament is not their God and throw it entirely out.

 

[socharlie]

Only if you're a heretical Gnostic. Those guys have god on their side and they're happy to let you know it.

I am a " heretical Gnostic" and I supposed to know, lol.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It's a loaded question. "Why do Christians attempt to defend this". You're already assuming God is what you say.

Where would we be without fire? Fire gives us warmth. Allows us to cook(purify) our food. Create combustion engines. Even our very bodies are generating energy through combustion. So we wouldn't live without fire. Fire is inside of us as long as we live. Yet, fire can be very dangerous if we aren't careful and respect the fire. We tell little kids "don't play with matches" for a reason. But, we don't say "matches are evil".

In the old days sailors really respected the sea. They may have loved their sailor lives on the sea but they knew the sea had to be respected. They did not hate the sea because it was dangerous; it was also beneficial. They made their living on the sea. They traveled the world. They got fish etc. Why don't people respect God who is greater than the sea and yet gives us all things that we enjoy?

God is a consuming fire. (Deut. 4:24) He hasn't changed. He's not evil. He's holy. He is the way He is whether anyone approves or not. On the other hand He's loving, merciful. This is seen throughout the old Testament as well as His holy "fire" nature. God is a fire and we have to come to terms with reality.

It's clearly not a loaded question because I'm speaking about written material on record in the Old Testament. It's a mystery why Christians constantly defend this, given the epitome of the standards by which morality is being based within the Christian religion.

It's interesting how you compare God with the perils and benefits associated with fire and the sea.

It would effectively make God an indiscreet force rather than a living entity with purpose and direction.

 

[InChrist]

It's not upsetting to me at all. :0)

It's a topic of debate that I find interesting as is with apologetics.

As a former Christian, I feel Christianity shouldn't be immune as with any other religion in face of asking very hard and difficult questions.

It's along the same vein by which many EX religious point out critical flaws and various discrepancies of their former affiliations, using debate as an excellent medium to get critical points addressed, and contested and bring such topics out into the open as the case here.

To continue on with the latter part of your statement...

There is supposedly a virtue of discernment, that of the knowledge of good and evil by which we "limited, finite, and disconnected" life-forms are able to distinguish. Right ?

Yet for some reason or another cannot apply in one context such actions perpetrated by God, but fully apply in another that is perpetrated by man or humankind, involving the same exact things by which this discernment has been based. How do you explain the clear contradiction then?

It's interesting that you would omit God from any and all wrongdoing based on the the same standards that have been brought forth in the Old Testament, by standards of Good and Evil that are established in the New Testament.

If you can't call God evil, it stands that you cannot call God good either.

Remember the verses about being lukewarm?

I see no contradiction between using discernment concerning human behaviors of right and wrong, while allowing for the reality that God is far above humanity and had valid reasons for the things which occurred in the OT. I think you, rather than trusting that God is good and/or at least considering the possibility that He had righteous reasons for the actions you are focusing on in the OT, you are instead using the information revealed as an excuse to reject God. Obviously, God saw no need to hide this information in His word, while at the same time the scriptures reveal the consistent holy righteousness and goodness of God's character. The fact is that Jesus and all the writers of the NT, with the standards good and evil therein, all believed and trusted in the holy, righteous God of the OT and saw no contradiction.

People often want to know how to harmonize God’s judgement with His love and mercy, but seldom reverse this desiring to know how to harmonize His love and mercy with His justice and judgement. Instead of wondering why a loving, merciful God destroyed the Canaanites or the Amalekites, why not wonder why a just, holy and true God was patient with them for such a long, long time considering their completely degraded wicked and dangerous behavior to themselves and all around them?.

Just the fact that you even say you don't find the "genocide" you are complaining about as horrendously brutal, upsetting to you. seems to reveal that your concern really isn't about the morality of the issue as much as about slandering God's character so you can justify yourself from any accountability to God, or rather this false, evil god you have created in your mind. It is also revealing that many who charge God with cruel, immoral behavior in the OT have no problem and even fully support abortion today which is nothing less than the slaughter of innocent children by the millions .