How the Left Lost Its Mind

[Sunstone]

How the Left Lost Its Mind

In a post-truth world, the Left is not immune to the sort of lying that has already consumed the Right. But what can we do about it? Please discuss.

NOTE: Leftists Only

 

[Stevicus]

How the Left Lost Its Mind

In a post-truth world, the Left is not immune to the sort of lying that has already consumed the Right. But what can we do about it? Please discuss.

NOTE: Leftists Only

The left has its share of anti-establishment types as well. The problem for the left at present is that they've forgotten and all but abandoned their core constituency in the working class.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I think I still qualify as Liberal.
There is a limited amount we can do about it, in truth, but I guess it's kinda 'think globally, act locally' in a way.

I think part of the problem is that we focus way too much on the message of political opponents, and not on their authenticity or transparency. We are failing to see or respect our opponents now more than ever.

This can lead to a 'fight fire with fire' attitude. Even worse we're tarring people with a single brush, dehumanizing 'the other side' and pulling out the most extreme of them as examples of why we're right and they're wrong.

Nietzsche knew what he was talking about, ultimately.
(I mean Fred, rather than @Nietzsche)

Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.

 

[Stevicus]

This can lead to a 'fight fire with fire' attitude. Even worse we're tarring people with a single brush, dehumanizing 'the other side' and pulling out the most extreme of them as examples of why we're right and they're wrong.

It's even worse than that, however. Oftentimes, politics is about fighting with fire and demonizing the other side, but the question here is, which "other side" is the left demonizing? Are they demonizing the wealthy people on the coasts, or are they demonizing the working classes who live in "flyover country"?

Why would the left, which traditionally supported the interests of the poor and working classes, turn their backs on the poor? They almost seem to revel in making fun of "hillbillies" and "bumpkins" that it appears that they've truly lost their way and have no firm principles anymore.

 

[PureX]

The left has its share of anti-establishment types as well. The problem for the left at present is that they've forgotten and all but abandoned their core constituency in the working class.

I assume that you mean the democratic party, not "the left", whatever that is.

Yes, the democratic party has been bought off by the corporate lobbyists just as have the republicans, and I'm not sure that the democratic voters understand this as well as they need to, yet. But enough of them understand it that they were not going to accept having Hillary Clinton shoved down their throats when they clearly preferred Bernie Sanders. And when we see the democratic politicians doing and saying next to NOTHING while the republicans are busy dismantling the mechanisms of established government right before our eyes, and are preparing to cause great hardship for millions of americans just so they can give their wealthy patrons more tax breaks.

 

[David T]

How the Left Lost Its Mind

In a post-truth world, the Left is not immune to the sort of lying that has already consumed the Right. But what can we do about it? Please discuss.

NOTE: Leftists Only

By doing what the right wing refuses to do.
1. Turn the tv off
2. Learn to understand that Politics is a by product of something else it is not fundemental.
3. Breathe.
4. Understand that fascism is bi-partisan.
5. Learn to listen to nature.
6. Recognize that you ARE also the disease not just the cure.
7. Take time for art.
8. Allow for differences, stop already with imposing the need for everyone to embrace differences.
9. Be different.

No particular order except breathe, and listen to nature maybe these are top choices . Both are Way way underrated and not much understood about either one because "normals" believe they understand it, but i see zero evidence of that on TV.

 

[Stevicus]

I assume that you mean the democratic party, not "the left", whatever that is.

Yes, the democratic party has been bought off by the corporate lobbyists just as have the republicans, and I'm not sure that the democratic voters understand this as well as they need to, yet. But enough of them understand it that they were not going to accept having Hillary Clinton shoved down their throats when they clearly preferred Bernie Sanders. And when we see the democratic politicians doing and saying next to NOTHING while the republicans are busy dismantling the mechanisms of established government right before our eyes, and are preparing to cause great hardship for millions of americans just so they can give their wealthy patrons more tax breaks.

Well, yes, the Democratic Party has been bought off, but "the left" itself has also become somewhat diffuse and discordant. It's more a loose collection of disparate factions than anything else, some of which may be in conflict with each other. You're right, it might have been different if Sanders had gotten the nomination, but the Democratic Party made their choice.

As for "the left," who knows? There are a few voices on the left who seem to be getting it. I've read a few articles which would indicate that they're starting to understand where they made their mistakes and how they've alienated large segments of the voting public. But the question is, will they actually learn from their mistakes and change how they approach politics in the future?

 

[Altfish]

Mensch is NOT of the left !!
She was a the Tory MP for Corby.
In the UK she is mocked for her nutcase right wing views.

 

[sun rise]

Yes, sadly, the left is not immune.

And that includes death threats when someone does something you don't like as in this case: Death threats directed at Assembly leader over universal health care bill

At least in this case, I think it stems from the infantalism of "I want. I want. I want." which is all over the far right as well. Rationally even if you love single payer, that bill was, as stated, woefully incomplete and did not have a way of paying for the cost.

An adult response would have been to acknowledge there was flaws in the bill and work with legislators to address those flaws.

As a side-note, I really like the @David T list.

 

[Sapiens]

In the final analysis the left is primarily composed of skeptics and the right of more doctrinaire types. This results in the left having occasional swings and the right marching lock-step backwards.

 

[PureX]

Well, yes, the Democratic Party has been bought off, but "the left" itself has also become somewhat diffuse and discordant. It's more a loose collection of disparate factions than anything else, some of which may be in conflict with each other. You're right, it might have been different if Sanders had gotten the nomination, but the Democratic Party made their choice.

As for "the left," who knows? There are a few voices on the left who seem to be getting it. I've read a few articles which would indicate that they're starting to understand where they made their mistakes and how they've alienated large segments of the voting public. But the question is, will they actually learn from their mistakes and change how they approach politics in the future?

I don't know what "the left" is. But I suspect it's the definition that has become discordant, not the people. I think people have always been diverse and complex, politically. It's the neo-conservative media that has been insisting that there is some holistic entity called "the left" and that it is in disarray, or that it hates God and Christmas, or that it thinks it's "entitled" to rich people's money, or whatever other slanderous nonsense they could try and make stick to it.

And by the way, I think the same is true of "the right". As I know plenty of political conservatives that are pro choice, AND pro capital punishment. And who could not bring themselves to vote for Trump. Or that believe we need a universal single-payer health care system. "The right" is as much an illusion when it comes to homogeneous beliefs and opinions as "the left" is.

 

[Quetzal]

Are they demonizing the wealthy people on the coasts, or are they demonizing the working classes who live in "flyover country"?

I think both parties are guilty of this one. When was the last time the interests of Nebraska made it into the touring schedule? I think the Democrats could gain some ground by investing time and resources into these areas.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Why would the left, which traditionally supported the interests of the poor and working classes, turn their backs on the poor?

Who's championing universal health care and the rest of the social safety net, increasing minimum wage, empowering unions, workplace protections, etc.? It's not the right.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

An interesting snippet from Wiki:

"In politics, the term Left derives from the French Revolution, as the anti-monarchist Montagnard and Jacobin deputies from the Third Estate generally sat to the left of the presiding member's chair in parliament, a habit which began in the Estates General of 1789. Throughout the 19th century in France, the main line dividing left and right was between supporters of the French Republic and those of the Monarchy.[6][page needed] The June Days Uprising during the Second Republic was an attempt by the Left to assert itself after the 1848 Revolution, but only a small portion of the population supported this."

As a European the Left to me is always associated with socialism, that is where it had its roots (I'm all for abolishing the British monarchy as well for that matter!). However, the world has changed drastically since those early days, the movement grew up because there was a crying need for it. Poor working class people were treated with cruelty and very little respect. Certainly, in first world countries things are not as desperate any more, and left wing parties have moved to the centre and become more "corporate", I'm talking about the UK here. I think working class people feel less of a connection these days, that the left is their "natural home".
We should celebrate this much though: left wing politics, left wing ideals have won an awful lot of victories for ordinary people over the centuries, and promoted racial and sexual equality. Of course we are far from perfection, but I wonder what the world would look like if the "ruling classes" had not been challenged and opposed by the "lefties" over the centuries. I seriously doubt they would have implemented all the social change out of "charity". Viva la revolucion comrades!

 

[Stevicus]

I don't know what "the left" is. But I suspect it's the definition that has become discordant, not the people. I think people have always been diverse and complex, politically. It's the neo-conservative media that has been insisting that there is some holistic entity called "the left" and that it is in disarray, or that it hates God and Christmas, or that it thinks it's "entitled" to rich people's money, or whatever other slanderous nonsense they could try and make stick to it.

And by the way, I think the same is true of "the right". As I know plenty of political conservatives that are pro choice, AND pro capital punishment. And who could not bring themselves to vote for Trump. Or that believe we need a universal single-payer health care system. "The right" is as much an illusion when it comes to homogeneous beliefs and opinions as "the left" is.

In my view, "the right" is anyone who supports anarcho-capitalism, globalism, and the interests of the wealthy. "The left" supports the opposite (usually socialism or a mixed economy).

But the problem today is that the left is siding with the wealthy (celebrity activists and limousine liberals, mainly) against the poor (calling them "hillbillies" and "bumpkins"). The left supports free trade which has ruined the American economy. The left supported NAFTA. The left supports the entire Republican economic program, while it's Trump who supports tariffs which would be beneficial to America's working class.

.

 

[Stevicus]

I think both parties are guilty of this one. When was the last time the interests of Nebraska made it into the touring schedule? I think the Democrats could gain some ground by investing time and resources into these areas.

Indeed, they could.

 

[Stevicus]

Who's championing universal health care and the rest of the social safety net, increasing minimum wage, empowering unions, workplace protections, etc.? It's not the right.

It's not the left either.

 

[Politesse]

A long-standing concern of mine. We've lost all journalistic integrity in this country, and I don't think it has anything like as much to do with party affiliation as people imagine. I think it has a lot to do with the deprofessionalization of the media themselves and the ease with which a false fact or story can promulgate faster than it is checked.

 

[PureX]

In my view, "the right" is anyone who supports anarcho-capitalism, globalism, and the interests of the wealthy. "The left" supports the opposite (usually socialism or a mixed economy).

But the problem today is that the left is siding with the wealthy (celebrity activists and limousine liberals, mainly) against the poor (calling them "hillbillies" and "bumpkins"). The left supports free trade which has ruined the American economy. The left supported NAFTA. The left supports the entire Republican economic program, while it's Trump who supports tariffs which would be beneficial to America's working class.

I don't agree. The left is not "siding with the wealthy". The left did not support NAFTA, Clinton did. The left is not "against the poor". They are against the willful ignorance being displayed by red state "hillbillies and bumpkins" that are foolishly supporting the very people that seek their annihilation. The left does not support "free trade" any more or less than anyone else, does.

I think you're getting your "news" from liars and propagandists, and it's twisted your view of reality.

 

[Quetzal]

A long-standing concern of mine. We've lost all journalistic integrity in this country, and I don't think it has anything like as much to do with party affiliation as people imagine. I think it has a lot to do with the deprofessionalization of the media themselves and the ease with which a false fact or story can promulgate faster than it is checked.

Further, it is about what sells. Not about what is accurate.