Why do you think the Jews rejected Jesus?

[It Aint Necessarily So]

From what I gather Jesus's geneology is what disqualifies him from the bloodline of David. Joseph was never the father due to the account being a virgin birth.

I'm guessing it's one key point as why Jesus is not overly recognized in the traditional Jewish faith as a messiah.

Which of the two genealogies did you mean?

And why are they mostly men? Didn't Jesus have any female ancestors?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Jesus did not conform to the Jewish expectation of messiah which was not a God-man that preached love,but one powerful who would restore Israel to the times of David.

The either Jesus was not the messiah, or prophecy is meaningless.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Especially the Prophets, most of whom were murdered by the Jewish establishment. Jesus was murdered by the Roman and Jewish establishments.

Jesus wasn't murdered. Murder is the deliberate, unlawful killing of a human being.

He was executed after being convicted of two different capital crimes by two unrelated legal systems.

 

[Ingledsva]

...
Erhman is an ultra liberal theologian who makes outlandish statements about Jesus and the Bible but NEVER provides any evidence for what he says. He wouldn't recognize the truth if it bit him on his butt.

Josephus and a Roman historian, Ticitus(sp) both mention Jesus. So Erhman is wrong about even a simple thing like that. If you want to put your faith in Erhman, good luck, you will need it.

Neither Josephus nor Tacitus were alive then, they were both born after Jesus' death, - so - hearsay, - not fact.

The Jesus info in Josephus is considered a later falsified insertion, possibly by Eusebius in the fourth century.

*

 

[wizanda]

Why do you think the Jews rejected Jesus?

Because some people are arrogant, and rather then question what the text stated, they stick with their own personal version of events.

When shown alternative facts often many mock, scoff, and ridicule the information, proving even more so it is just hubris that has made them deny the facts.

Really feel sorry for many, as the text stipulated this is what is to happen to catch them all out (Isaiah 28:22, Isaiah 29:20, etc), and they still think they're being funny, when they're proving what it stated is true, and showing fulfillment of prophcey by their own arrogance.

 

[Nietzsche]

Because some people are arrogant, and rather then question what the text stated, they stick with their own personal version of events.

When shown alternative facts often many mock, scoff, and ridicule the information, proving even more so it is just hubris that has made them deny the facts.

Really feel sorry for many, as the text stipulated this is what is to happen to catch them all out (Isaiah 28:22, Isaiah 29:20, etc), and they still think they're being funny, when they're proving what it stated is true, and showing fulfillment of prophcey by their own arrogance.

I don't recall Jesus ever slaying a giant primordial monstrosity and then making a feast of its flesh and draping Jerusalem with its skin. I feel that's some extremely important bits to leave out of the whole "Messiah" thing.

 

[wizanda]

I don't recall Jesus ever slaying a giant primordial monstrosity and then making a feast of its flesh and draping Jerusalem with its skin. I feel that's some extremely important bits to leave out of the whole "Messiah" thing.

Sorry i don't get that, can you elaborate please?

 

[Nietzsche]

Sorry i don't get that, can you elaborate please?

One of the things that the Messiah is supposed to do, according to the Jews, is slay the Leviathan. Then he makes a feast of its flesh and crafts various things from the corpse, and specifically he drapes the skin over the walls of Jerusalem.

Unless someone just decided to leave that out, I don't think Jesus slayed a giant dragon and made sandwiches and purses out of it.

 

[wizanda]

The other aspect of those stiff necked who've refused correction, which sit scoffing and mocking (Isaiah 28:22, Isaiah 29:20), just helps clarify why the whole people have been cut off.

Isaiah 43:27-28 Your first father sinned, and your mockers (teachers) have transgressed against me. (28) Therefore I will profane the princes of the sanctuary; and I will make Jacob a curse, and Israel an insult.”

It is amazing how arrogance can blind us to the reality, whilst continuing to feel we're in the right.

 

[omega2xx]

I'm sure that we're all extremely impressed by your huge mastery.

It is not my mastery, it is being able to understand the mastery of others.

By the way, you screwed up your reference to Gen 3:15 bigly. No one who has followed your antics should be surprised.

That is the usual comment from those who lack understanding even of their own Scriptures. You see saying I screwed up is meaningless, unless you show how i did


Gen 17:19 - But God said, No, but you shall call his name Isaac and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.

Luke 3:34 - The son of Jacob, the son of Isaac...

 

[omega2xx]

These are we all possess to some degree.

Right---Let us make man in our image...

Perhaps Jesus was correct when He quoted from psalms 82:6 to say we are all gods.

In the sense we can know good and evil. Gen 3:22 - Then the Lord God said, "the man has become like us(Us is another reference to the Trinity) knowing good and evil...

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

John 10:31-34

If the verse said "Gods" then I would have problem. Using gods, can be addressed as I just tried to do. We should understand that gods are not Gods.

Two ministries? I haven't heard that one before. Please elaborate.

Th ministry of the Holy Spirit is to guide God children into all the truth, and to glorify Jesus(Jn 16:13-14. The ministry of Jesus was to glorify the Father(Jn 17:1-4)

You are correct that the concept is simple and I don't believe it. It appears irrational and contradictory to other scripture. The reason I personalise my beliefs is out of respect for others who believe differently such as yourself. It also provides you with an opening to explain your beliefs. My beliefs are not unique to me. There are many others including those who consider themselves Christian who hold such beliefs.

Because spiritual concepts can't be proved, they are irrational. All religions have some good aspects. Yours has many good moral teachings, most, if not all can be found in the Bible. The main reason conservative Christians do not accept other religions, is because they never have a Biblical concept of God or of Jesus. It would be hypocritical to accept any religion that has more than one God or even one god.

I do agree that a belief in Jesus as God incarnate is probably held by the majority of Christians although many Christians in my experience either do not really know what they believe or struggle to explain it. Does that shoe fit? You seem to consider yourself to have some authority to determine what constitutes correct and incorrect belief. Is that self appointed, or did someone give it to you?

I only have God's word. If you can't point out where I do not understand it, please do. I am not claiming to be some super dupper Bible Scholar, but I do have the ability to read and understand text usually written at about a 10th grade level.


Gen 17:19 - But God said, No, but you shall call his name Isaac and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.

Luke 3:34 - The son of Jacob, the son of Isaac...

 

[omega2xx]

LOL! I doubt that very much.
Since such resources are available, why do you accuse me of lying?

He was a Jew. He taught ONE God YHVH, - no trinity, - three in one, etc.

The doctrine of the Trinity is ONE GOD.

You know perfectly well that the 4 in 1 YOU, is not the same thing. There is not a visible separate YOU son walking around at the same time as the NOW You, and praying to YOU.

It is the same principle.

The Bible has a sentence having all of them doing different things at the same time. Three SEPARATE beings.

You have to learn to accept during His incarnation, Jesus' Godly attributres were not available to Him

Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

1. - 2. - 3. - separate beings - at the same time. No trinity God in one.

And I might add; - why the need for more then one throne in heaven - if they are one being? Why would Jesus need a separate throne?

Why would he sit beside God at the end, - if he was God?



Jesus never said he was God - or part of any trinity. That is the way it is. You can't change that.

AND - he DID claim to be the awaited Messiah.

(Jesus) Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

We also have this, -

Joh 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

Joh 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

*

If you understand the Bible, you can understand it does teach the Trinity. The Trinity is a spiritual concept that must be accepted by faith alone. Who do you think the "us" and "our" in Gen 1:26 refers to? Keep in mind that angels do not have any creative abilities and they are not made in the image and likeness of God.

Isa 6:3 - Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts... Why 3 holies? why not one or 7? I will let you figure that one out.


Gen 17:19 - But God said, No, but you shall call his name Isaac and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.

Luke 3:34 - The son of Jacob, the son of Isaac...

 

[omega2xx]

Jesus isn't from the line of David.

Joseph is, - but you folks claim God did it. So NO Davidic lineage.

The Bible says there is so I will continue to accept what God says instead of what man does not understand.

And this is what Gen 3:15 actually says -

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel*

God was speaking to Satan. The seed of Eve are the children of God. the wheat, the children of Satan are the tares(Mt 13:38). The good seed will be gathered into "God's barn(heaven). The tares are worthless, they will be burned with fire.

The prophecy speaks of the ultimate victory of Jesus over Satan.



Gen 17:19 - But God said, No, but you shall call his name Isaac and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.

Luke 3:34 - The son of Jacob, the son of Isaac...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It is not my mastery, it is being able to understand the mastery of others.

We all eagerly await your demonstration of such understanding.

That is the usual comment from those who lack understanding even of their own Scriptures. You see saying I screwed up is meaningless, unless you show how i did

What a remarkably stupid statement.

Gen 17:19 - But God said, No, but you shall call his name Isaac and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.

Poor Sarah.

(You are laughably bad at this stuff. )

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Because much of it probably never happened literally. Its great allegory and symbolism though.

The resurrection with an ascension through the stratosphere to literally sit at the right side of God makes no sense, even considering an Omnipotent, All-powerful God. However the story helps us understand about the spiritual nature of our lives and life after death.

Walking on water is an allegory for rising above our lower nature (ego and desire) and walking the spiritual path (love, truth, justice).

Turning water into wine speaks of the potency of God's word to transform hearts and lives.

Raising people from the dead means through Christ's teachings we can have spiritual life.

The virgin birth helps us understand the sanctified nature of Jesus.

If one is free to take that degree of latitude in interpretation, then none of the words in the Bible can be said to mean anything specific. Aren't we free to continue with your process and say that "God" isn't a sentient, creative agent, but just man projecting himself and his sense of his potential and destiny onto the cosmos? Or maybe "God" can be the personification of the unconscious universe in the way that "Mother Nature" is.

You might say that I have gone too far - that one cannot expunge the god from the scriptures. Sure, you might say that the six days of creation are allegorical, but not the god featured in the story.

If so, I ask what test or feature allows us to decide which words must be taken literally, and which can be considered poetry, that is, words telling us nothing that we don't bring the the process ourselves, like verbal Rorschach tests.

And what becomes of prophecy if what it refers to can be transformed into whatever you want it to say? What if "the destruction of the temple" can be transformed into the loss or destruction of any person or situation according to the reader's whimsy. Did it happen? Can we say whether they were fulfilled or not if we are free to interpret them as we please. Maybe the temple was the Soviet Union. If so, the prophecy was fulfilled. Perhaps the temple refers to the Catholic Church. Then, no, unless you want to interpret the Protestant revolution as the prophesied fall.

I think you see my point. If the words can mean anything you want, then they mean nothing specific at all.

 

[omega2xx]

Are we discussing Jesus or Immanuel?

Jesus, who is Immanuel.


Gen 17:19 - But God said, No, but you shall call his name Isaac and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.

Luke 3:34 - The son of Jacob, the son of Isaac...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Jesus, who is Immanuel.

Nonsense.

Gen 17:19 - But God said, No, but you shall call his name Isaac and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.

Go back and read Genesis 17:19 again, and then see if you can actually quote it correctly.

 

[omega2xx]

We all eagerly await your demonstration of such understanding.

I have been, you just can't understand it.

What a remarkably stupid statement.

That is the usual comment I get from those who lack understanding.

Poor Sarah.

What a remarkably stupid statement.

](You are laughably bad at this stuff. )

That is the usual comment I get from those who lack understanding.


Gen 17:19 - But God said, No, but you shall call his name Isaac and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.

Luke 3:34 - The son of Jacob, the son of Isaac...

 

[omega2xx]

Nonsense.


Go back and read Genesis 17:19 again, and then see if you can actually quote it correctly.

So I left out the part about Sarah. That does not change the meaning of the verse.

Gen 17:19 - But God said, No, but you shall call his name Isaac and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.

Luke 3:34 - The son of Jacob, the son of Isaac...

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Jesus is the Son. Christ is not. Jesus is the Word(actually the logos); the word was God. How much clearer can it be?

Really? Try to write something less clear and more vague than what you just wrote.