But I do not. I gave you the gift.
So, was that a gift if I take it back when I want?
Ciao
- viole
-
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The FLOOD, God's Great Failure?
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
But I do not. I gave you the gift.
So, was that a gift if I take it back when I want?
Ciao
- viole
MansFriend
Let's champion the rights of all individuals!
Saying it was or wasn't a failure depends upon whether or not you understand what the objectives were in mind. People assume God is or should be some kind of tyrant that makes everyone into these perfectly behaving automatons. So, when they survey the tendencies of people's behavior and see a good many people sinning, they try to push the blame onto God.
What I have come to understand is the enemy to God is who actually believes there should be a monolithic system imposed where people are turned into automatons under a system of law that takes away their individual sovereignty.
So, it isn't really fair to accuse God of failing when you are holding him accountable to do that which is actually the goal of God's enemy, in his own way based upon what he deems moral and right. What is "right" to this being is that everyone becomes a minion in his global central control and command "utopia". However, this is what God would deem as a person having their "breath of life" drowned out, because their individual sovereignty was taken from them.
Think of the flood of Noah's time as the implementation of a system of global tyranny. The "waters" that put an end to people's "breath of life" is the suffocating lies and falsehoods that people should give up their individual sovereignty to a central authority.
How does such a flood work? The propagation of lustful and sinful behavior is what ultimately leads people to call out for this type of a system to be implemented and the more sinful people become the more there will be an inclination to yield up individual sovereignty to such a system. Thus, the people yield up all of their individuality in the name of benefiting the collective.
However, for God to succeed, is all He needs is a faithful remnant who holds true to the principles of individual sovereignty and the attending personal responsibilities that go along with such rights. And, for this remnant to have somewhere upon the planet, even if it is a small city or small nation, to keep and preserve this system, by their own free will and choice, not because they were forced to, which goes completely against the whole premise of a Godly society.
This type of Godly society also cares for the collective, but it puts first and foremost the individual and unalienable rights of individuals and treats this as the bedrock of a good and moral and happy society. It deems that true "life" must include classic liberty and that to take this away is to take away life itself. If people want to live in sin, God won't force them to stop. They will reap the consequences of their own actions soon enough. But, if people are trying to forcibly take away the unalienable rights of those who are devoted to God, then you have a real fight on your hands.
What I have come to understand is the enemy to God is who actually believes there should be a monolithic system imposed where people are turned into automatons under a system of law that takes away their individual sovereignty.
So, it isn't really fair to accuse God of failing when you are holding him accountable to do that which is actually the goal of God's enemy, in his own way based upon what he deems moral and right. What is "right" to this being is that everyone becomes a minion in his global central control and command "utopia". However, this is what God would deem as a person having their "breath of life" drowned out, because their individual sovereignty was taken from them.
Think of the flood of Noah's time as the implementation of a system of global tyranny. The "waters" that put an end to people's "breath of life" is the suffocating lies and falsehoods that people should give up their individual sovereignty to a central authority.
How does such a flood work? The propagation of lustful and sinful behavior is what ultimately leads people to call out for this type of a system to be implemented and the more sinful people become the more there will be an inclination to yield up individual sovereignty to such a system. Thus, the people yield up all of their individuality in the name of benefiting the collective.
However, for God to succeed, is all He needs is a faithful remnant who holds true to the principles of individual sovereignty and the attending personal responsibilities that go along with such rights. And, for this remnant to have somewhere upon the planet, even if it is a small city or small nation, to keep and preserve this system, by their own free will and choice, not because they were forced to, which goes completely against the whole premise of a Godly society.
This type of Godly society also cares for the collective, but it puts first and foremost the individual and unalienable rights of individuals and treats this as the bedrock of a good and moral and happy society. It deems that true "life" must include classic liberty and that to take this away is to take away life itself. If people want to live in sin, God won't force them to stop. They will reap the consequences of their own actions soon enough. But, if people are trying to forcibly take away the unalienable rights of those who are devoted to God, then you have a real fight on your hands.
Did you say; Here is a gift for you to keep forever?
Well, yes. It is implicit. Because a gift is such that it belongs to the receiver. Otherwise, it would not be a gift. It would be a loan.
When you give a gift, do you warn that it might be taken back at any time?
Ciao
- viole
Skwim
Veteran Member
Is that what he wanted to do, punish?
Genesis 6:5-7, 13, 17
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.
13 And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
17 And behold, I Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die.
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.
13 And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
17 And behold, I Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die.
pun·ish·ment
(pŭn′ĭsh-mənt)n.
1. The imposition of a penalty or deprivation for wrongdoing:
(pŭn′ĭsh-mənt)n.
1. The imposition of a penalty or deprivation for wrongdoing:
is only meted out where the person being punished can understand its reason, or at least others who are not being punished can comprehend the reason. Think all the people around the world knew why they were being killed by the flood? How about all the innocent children and the birds of the air? Did they merit punishment? Nope. God simply wanted them all off the face of the planet.
.
Skwim
Veteran Member
That you evidently feel the flood did make a difference.
This only means that the flood was still an utter failure.
.
neologist
Member
My question "How are we doing?" Referred to "we" as the human race. You answered according to your POV.
Perhaps you simply misunderstood.
I see your point but i was also raised in a human environment where people snub their noses at a loan. God however, or the Son of God anyway. Didn't care around a lot of extra baggage. Even said it was better to simply have what you need when you need it. So there's something to be learned there.
Oh, ok, I misread.
So, do you think we are doing bad? And this is because we rebelled?
Ciao
- viole
neologist
Member
You seem to confuse punishment with consequence,
If you get hit by a car while jaywalking, that would be a consequence.
Skwim
Veteran Member
God however, or the Son of God anyway? What do you mean? I thought the son of God is God, too.
So, it is a loan, after all.
Ciao
- viole
Skwim
Veteran Member
RedDragon94
Love everyone, meditate often
Who cares what you think?
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
I don't believe in God. From my perspective we aren't obedient or disobedient to any ethereal know-it-all who's keeping score.
The claim made very often that God is "infallible" is what is at issue here. Juxtaposed against GOD'S OWN "INSPIRED" WORD: "for I am sorry that I have made them"
Despite all of your attempts to make excuses for what the flood could be indicative of, God makes it clear He felt He made a mistake. What else could the bolded statement above possibly mean? You really, REALLY have to stretch in order to make it out to be "all part of the plan" when the planner Himself is apologizing for His hand in a HUGE part of it.
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God the Father and the Son of God are two different beings. It's a gift, since this life is like a seed, then we die and get planted in the ground, and get a new body at the resurrection that never dies.
neologist
Member
Consider what was involved in the rebellion. By eating the fruit, Adam and Eve chose to set their own standards of good and bad. Jeremiah 10:23 rightly reminds us of our deficiency.
In 6000 +/- years we have affirmed Jeremiah's observation
neologist
Member
Of course.
But not all consequences are punishments.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Well, you replied to my post so I think the answer is obvious: You do.
Thank you for caring..