Nationalist/far-right subforum?

[Saint Frankenstein]

I have seen former Nazis etc who very strongly advocate against such ideas

I'm one of them. You can't reason someone out of what they weren't reasoned into in the first place.

 

[Quetzal]

As a Communist I can assure that we are complete *******s intent on destroying you and everything you care about. Communists are comparable to the nazis in terms of the means and ends of unlimited state power although there are significant differences in behaviour and motivation. arguably communists are worse because we do away with the "civil society" as a space independent of the government. We don't want your conformity- we want you to love big brother. Your thoughts are not your own- they belong to the party.

Of course, I am a communist so I could be lying to you for the good of the party. But How will you know?

So, why do you support it?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I have no dog in the fight either way. I just find it amusing to observe that people, whatever "side" they're on, seem to have a strong tendency to claim that their definitions of their own ideological labels are the only correct ones, while at the same time, also claim that their definitions for other's ideological labels are the only correct ones.

Everybody wants to control definitions (and by extension information/perceptions) according to their own agendas - and all under the guise of self-righteous, moral justification (without a hint of irony). Humans never cease to crack me up.

 

[Laika]

That's your Stalinist nonsense and that's completely on you for holding those views. You'd have to kill me, too, by the way. Change your views since you're obviously ashamed of them (and should be, imo).

Yes to the first part. Yes to the second part. See below for the third.

So, why do you support it?

..because as far as I can tell it's true. I hate it but so far I don't think that's a good enough reason to dump it. hating the law of gravity, or the theory of evolution or the fact that world is round doesn't mean it ceases to be the case. These are things you have to live with. Communist theory is based on asserting "scientific" laws of history, so if they are as scientifically valid as all the laws of natural science you just have to find ways to adapt to them. It's not a "choice".

Either way, I wouldn't put up with all the **** I get unless I thought I had something of value that- even if people disagree with me and often for good reason- it's still worth sharing.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

As a Communist I can assure that we are complete *******s intent on destroying you and everything you care about. Communists are comparable to the nazis in terms of the means and ends of unlimited state power although there are significant differences in behaviour and motivation. arguably communists are worse because we do away with the "civil society" as a space independent of the government. We don't want your conformity- we want you to love big brother. Your thoughts are not your own- they belong to the party.

Of course, I am a communist so I could be lying to you for the good of the party. But How will you know?

I wish you'd stop calling yourself communist because I don't want be associated with your repugnant ideology.

 

[Quetzal]

..because as far as I can tell it's true. I hate it but so far I don't think that's a good enough reason to dump it. hating the law of gravity, or the theory of evolution or the fact that world is round doesn't mean it ceases to be the case. These are things you have to live with. Communist theory is based on asserting "scientific" laws of history, so if they are as scientifically valid as all the laws of natural science you just have to find ways to adapt to them. It's not a "choice".

Either way, I wouldn't put up with all the **** I get unless I thought I had something of value that- even if people disagree with me and often for good reason- it's still worth sharing.

I am more interested in the humanitarian, genocidal aspect. Why would that be an appropriate approach? PS: None of this is an attack on you, just curiosities.

 

[MD]

We've actually been talking recently about decommissioning the "political only" forums altogether. They've been causing enough challenges that some of our staff felt that needed to be on the table. But if we make any sort of change like that, we will definitely run it by the members first.

If you remove the political DIRs then you might as well remove the religious DIRs as well, as people can talk about the superiority of their faiths. For example just today Servant posted about how Islam gave the Arabs dominance over the Persians and Romans. Might as well be consistent banning all views, instead of the ones that make you uncomfortable.

 

[lovesong]

It's not just the far-right we should be avoiding here but the far-anything. Extremism in either form (left or right) being supported by a subforum legitimizes the often harmful claims and would undeniable shake up more drama than the regular political subforums already do.

 

[Rival]

I just took a test and got this result:

What is your political persona?
Your result

Soviet Communist
Equality and loyalty to the socialist cause are some of your most important values. On the one hand, you think the collective should always be prioritized above the individual. On the other, you are the first to mobilize to protect entitlements. So which is it: “Ask not what your country can do for you” or “demand what your country can do for you”? In Soviet Russia, irrational argument choose you!

Quiz

 

[MD]

I just took a test and got this result:

What is your political persona?
Your result

Soviet Communist
Equality and loyalty to the socialist cause are some of your most important values. On the one hand, you think the collective should always be prioritized above the individual. On the other, you are the first to mobilize to protect entitlements. So which is it: “Ask not what your country can do for you” or “demand what your country can do for you”? In Soviet Russia, irrational argument choose you!

Quiz

LOL I got, it's waay too narrow

Welfare Socialist
You support redistribution on the grounds that it helps the poor. - Especially if it has to be paid for by your grandchildren. Damn kids need to stop asking for Christmas presents- when will they learn that gifts and inheritances are evil?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I just took a test and got this result:

What is your political persona?
Your result

Soviet Communist
Equality and loyalty to the socialist cause are some of your most important values. On the one hand, you think the collective should always be prioritized above the individual. On the other, you are the first to mobilize to protect entitlements. So which is it: “Ask not what your country can do for you” or “demand what your country can do for you”? In Soviet Russia, irrational argument choose you!

Quiz

I got, lol:

Hippie Communist
You truly believe in personal freedom and want to go your own way. While living in your hippie commune you don't find time to think about concepts such as property or the price mechanism. You’re too busy weaving alpaca blankets, singing Kumbaya, and ignoring the impending famine.

 

[Laika]

I am more interested in the humanitarian, genocidal aspect. Why would that be an appropriate approach? PS: None of this is an attack on you, just curiosities.

No worries. I actually prefer it when people just straight up ask as it's easier to deal with than people just assuming things about you.

If you ask yourself what you'd live for, die for and kill for- it puts things into perspective in a way nothing else does. You can't lie or ******* anymore and it means you have to clear away your illusions. There is both a horror and a sort of tranquility in it because it is a path to accepting your own mortality. Like looking up in to the night sky- you don't know what is out there. Are our fears of the unknown just a projection of our own sense of inferiority? Or does it express something essential to our humanity- our love of life, our desire to grow and endure, to transcend our individual self?

That is very much the existential (almost religious) part of communism: the self being transcended by belonging to something greater. You can call it humanity, the state, the proletariat or society (or God) but it feels the same. Communists share things in common with social Darwinists and the tendency to think in evolutionary terms means they think in terms of something growing, something dying and the struggle between them.

The monstrous bit is when this is applied to society. If you believe capitalism is already a dying system- why not accelerate it? Why not wipe out the reactionary forces of capitalism, religion and backward ways of thinking so that it clear the path for socialism as the "new world"? Is it really so wrong just to speed up a natural process? Is murder wrong when we are all going to die anyway?

I don't have an answer (and it certainly feels wrong a lot of the time) but I think I'm a better person for being prepared to ask those kind of questions. That's special in a way.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

There are forums for beliefs I find evil.

I think it depends, greatly. Is this a matter of "Christians finding Paganism evil"? In such an argument, positives can be shown. Definite positives.

What are the positives of Nazism?

 

[Stevicus]

I think its reasonable to say that RF now has quite a few outspoken Trump and Brexit supporters. This doesn't automatically make it "far-right" but there are similarities and patterns. So it struck me as odd that there isn't a subforum for it. I'm just curious whether there is actually demand for one. Its the numbers that counts.

Given that members have consistently expressed concerns over immigration, multi-culturalism, political correctness, cultural threats to western values such as Islam or cultural marxism/the left and feminism, etc, I thought I'd throw this idea out there to see if it sticks.

I don't know about "far right," although I can see where paleo-conservatives and those who consider themselves patriots may fall somewhere in between without being outright nationalists or fascists. They might also disagree with some positions held by neo-conservatives. They may not actually want to harm anybody, but they don't want their own country to go down the drain either. A lot of fear out there, and fear can breed anger and hatred if it's left unaddressed.

That's probably the main problem with "political correctness," as it is often called. It glossed over too much and tried to pretend that everything was hunky-dory, while not really addressing the underlying concerns and fears of people resistant to change.

Left-wing nationalism does exist but its a bit of an abberation so in practice nationalism is often a solidly far right position.

A lot of national liberation movements which resisted colonialism were often left-wing, but clearly nationalist as well.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think it depends, greatly. Is this a matter of "Christians finding Paganism evil"? In such an argument, positives can be shown. Definite positives.

What are the positives of Nazism?

Oh, no....I'm not falling for the trick of saying anything positive about Hitler.
Fourteen posters are holding their breath, just waiting to pounce!
There are beliefs systems which I find lacking in anything positive.
But tis for those believers to say just what is.

I'm sure many find atheism similarly lacking in anything good, while driving
what is evil in the world. Recognize that people will disagree.

 

[Quetzal]

Is murder wrong when we are all going to die anyway?

Uhm... yes, yes it is. It is not up to an individual or a government state to determine when someone else gets to die. I don't understand how this is a serious question.

 

[Kirran]

As a Communist I can assure that we are complete *******s intent on destroying you and everything you care about. Communists are comparable to the nazis in terms of the means and ends of unlimited state power although there are significant differences in behaviour and motivation. arguably communists are worse because we do away with the "civil society" as a space independent of the government. We don't want your conformity- we want you to love big brother. Your thoughts are not your own- they belong to the party.

Of course, I am a communist so I could be lying to you for the good of the party. But How will you know?

The difference I see here is that far-right ideas can be seen having negative impacts in the here and now, and are manifest in practice. For example, Internet radicalisation is responsible for many far-right attacks etc.

In the present day, I am not aware of that happening much with far-leftists, although certainly there are plenty in the authoritarian left whose theories are pretty scary.

 

[Laika]

I think it depends, greatly. Is this a matter of "Christians finding Paganism evil"? In such an argument, positives can be shown. Definite positives.

What are the positives of Nazism?

Nazi Germany was the first country in modern times to try to eliminate smoking as a cause of lung cancer.

Anti-tobacco movement in Nazi Germany - Wikipedia

 

[Revoltingest]

Nazi Germany was the first country in modern times to try to eliminate smoking as a cause of lung cancer.

Anti-tobacco movement in Nazi Germany - Wikipedia

You're braver than I, but, oh....are you in for it now!

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

It's been a long time since I read it, but the communist manifesto (iirc) does call for a violent and bloody revolution. Perhaps this is why Pol Pot saw fit to do what he did to an entire class.

In order to seize the methods of production from the bourgeoisie, yes. It doesn't mandate armed struggle against the proletarians. To do so is a corruption of Communist (specifically Marxist) ideology.

See here: The Dictatorship of the Proletariat

Seriously- you really don't understand communism if you think we're all about love and peace. We are absolute Nazis if you give us the chance. Commies kill people out of ideology and thrill of power whilst believing their right.

Why else do you think I'm so nice and reasonable? It's me trying to find a way to live and let live because I know my beliefs require me to kill you all as enemies of the people...

...and that makes me feel sad.

If your beliefs require you to kill proletarians because they're enemies of the people (i.e. proletarians) then you've departed somewhat from what (Marxist) Communism is really about.