Nationalist/far-right subforum?

[Quetzal]

I'll try.

"Communism" is a philosophy known as historical materialism. It says that society is governed by objective laws of nature (or laws of history) in the same sense as the law of gravity. Gravity exists whether you want it to or not.

I "support" communism in thinking those laws of nature are real and the basic ideas of the theory are true. That's not the same as thinking it's right or moral. How I use them I still have a degree of choice over.

I.e. I think that the "objective laws of nature" means that communism leads to lots of killing. I told you because if people know that information and know how communism works/ how communists think they can decide what to do with it. It gives you the power to decide where you stand and what you would do with that information. I think that is the right thing to do with it even if the idea itself is horrendous.

Okay, let me take a crack at it again (sorry if I am jacking your post). Let's take an example that is pretty universally accepted: the Earth is round. Now, let's say I live in a communist nation in the most accurate sense and I believe the Earth is flat! Further, I try to post youtube videos and forum posts to convince people of that. What would the action of the communist nation be against someone like me?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

On the face of it- yeah. I'd say outlawing murder is pretty dam good whatever the reason.

What if that same regime classifies certain groups as not "fully human", and thus not subject to laws against murder? This isn't really a stretch, either - as with the smoking laws, Jews, blacks, Romani, and various other groups were seen as sub-human. With this in mind, the Nazi anti-smoking ideology basically posits that "humans" don't smoke, only beasts do.

 

[Laika]

Okay, let me take a crack at it again (sorry if I am jacking your post). Let's take an example that is pretty universally accepted: the Earth is round. Now, let's say I live in a communist nation in the most accurate sense and I believe the Earth is flat! Further, I try to post youtube videos and forum posts to convince people of that. What would the action of the communist nation be against someone like me?

I think the OP may be a lost cause but the results have none the less been interesting.

As for your a question- there are a number of things a communist government could do.

Let's say you were a scientist and you put forward the "flat earth" view. Under communism there is some legitimate scope for discussion within ideologically correct parameters as defined by the communist party. It fluctuates though as get be more open or restrictive depending on the political conditions of the time.

Let's assume the flat earth view was "politically incorrect" (or "deviationism" as they'd put it). They could say that you are upholding a religious view as they try to eliminate religion.

Here's some of the possibilities:

• If your important and worth covering up you can get put into a mental hospital to be tortured into compliance. They treat your dissent as a form of mental illness. Political abuse of psychiatry in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia
• If you are just an "everyday" person, they may make you undergo "criticism and self-criticism" as a form of public humiliation in a "struggle session" where you recant your views in public as a deviation from the party line. Struggle session - Wikipedia
• Another method is "re-education by labour" in which you undergo forced labour. In communist systems this is supposed to teach certain values of hard work and compliance as part of the social good (assuming it doesn't kill you) Re-education through labor - Wikipedia
• The last one (I can think of) is that they torture you to get you to denounce other "enemies of the people" as part of a larger conspiracy. (By no fault of your own) You'll say anything or anyone's name to make it stop. if your just an average joe they can take you out back and shoot you.
• If your more important, they will force you to sign a confession and go through a show trial. They will have prepared the confession in advance and it doesn't matter if any of it is true- the whole point of it is to break you and use your confession to "make it true" by accepting the party's version of events. They'll put you out in front of the public and alleged a conspiracy. The courts are run by the party and all lawyers (including your defence lawyer) are party members who must already believe in your guilt as instructed by the party. then they pass sentence and shoot you. As far as anyone knows, you were part of a vast flat earth conspiracy trying to bring down the government as the only information people will get is from the government itself (if they haven't written you out of history entirely).

Basically, George Orwell wasn't joking. He got a few things wrong- but not much. This kind of thing still goes on in communist countries today but it just doesn't get a lot of attention. They have moderated but it's still brutal by western standards.

 

[Laika]

What if that same regime classifies certain groups as not "fully human", and thus not subject to laws against murder? This isn't really a stretch, either - as with the smoking laws, Jews, blacks, Romani, and various other groups were seen as sub-human. With this in mind, the Nazi anti-smoking ideology basically posits that "humans" don't smoke, only beasts do.

Then I'd have a problem with it obviously.

 

[Quetzal]

I think the OP may be a lost cause but the results have none the less been interesting.

As for your a question- there are a number of things a communist government could do.

Let's say you were a scientist and you put forward the "flat earth" view. Under communism there is some legitimate scope for discussion within ideologically correct parameters as defined by the communist party. It fluctuates though as get be more open or restrictive depending on the political conditions of the time.

Let's assume the flat earth view was "politically incorrect" (or "deviationism" as they'd put it). They could say that you are upholding a religious view as they try to eliminate religion.

Here's some of the possibilities:

• If your important and worth covering up you can get put into a mental hospital to be tortured into compliance. They treat your dissent as a form of mental illness. Political abuse of psychiatry in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia
• If you are just an "everyday" person, they may make you undergo "criticism and self-criticism" as a form of public humiliation in a "struggle session" where you recant your views in public as a deviation from the party line. Struggle session - Wikipedia
• Another method is "re-education by labour" in which you undergo forced labour. In communist systems this is supposed to teach certain values of hard work and compliance as part of the social good (assuming it doesn't kill you) Re-education through labor - Wikipedia
• The last one (I can think of) is that they torture you to get you to denounce other "enemies of the people" as part of a larger conspiracy. (By no fault of your own) You'll say anything or anyone's name to make it stop. if your just an average joe they can take you out back and shoot you.
• If your more important, they will force you to sign a confession and go through a show trial. They will have prepared the confession in advance and it doesn't matter if any of it is true- the whole point of it is to break you and use your confession to "make it true" by accepting the party's version of events. They'll put you out in front of the public and alleged a conspiracy. The courts are run by the party and all lawyers (including your defence lawyer) are party members who must already believe in your guilt as instructed by the party. then they pass sentence and shoot you. As far as anyone knows, you were part of a vast flat earth conspiracy trying to bring down the government as the only information people will get is from the government itself (if they haven't written you out of history entirely).

Basically, George Orwell wasn't joking. He got a few things wrong- but not much. This kind of thing still goes on in communist countries today but it just doesn't get a lot of attention. They have moderated but it's still brutal by western standards.

And the justification behind this is that because I hold a view outside of what they see as correct, I am dangerous because the information I am trying to spread is inaccurate. Therefore, a negative impact on the society? (I think I am starting to understand... maybe?)

 

[Kuzcotopia]

So anyway. . . The subforum idea is a good one. I'd never post there of course, but why not?

The forum rules still apply, so the checks and balances are there. I'll always assume that everyone can be cool until proven otherwise.

 

[Laika]

And the justification behind this is that because I hold a view outside of what they see as correct, I am dangerous because the information I am trying to spread is inaccurate. Therefore, a negative impact on the society? (I think I am starting to understand... maybe?)

Yeah. Essentially. The USSR and all the other communist countries developed "historical materialism" as a theory of society and "dialectical materialism" as a theory of nature. Together they form of worldview that everyone is expected to believe. These are highly complex ideas in their own right but Any view that fell outside of it was considered wrong and dangerous because it undermines the state.

 

[Neo Deist]

We've actually been talking recently about decommissioning the "political only" forums altogether. They've been causing enough challenges that some of our staff felt that needed to be on the table. But if we make any sort of change like that, we will definitely run it by the members first.

The website is called Religious Forums. Personally, it would not bother me one bit if you guys killed off anything that was not related to religion. I log in each day and see 1 post about Jesus, 1 post about Islam in some form or fashion, and about 15 posts surrounding politics.

 

[Quetzal]

Yeah. Essentially. The USSR and all the other countries developed "historical materialism" as a theory of society and "dialectical materialism" as a theory of nature. Together they form of worldview that everyone is expected to believe. These are highly complex ideas in their own right but Any view that fell outside of it was considered wrong and dangerous because it undermines the state.

Horrifying, but at least I understand it now. Thanks for your patience.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I think its reasonable to say that RF now has quite a few outspoken Trump and Brexit supporters. This doesn't automatically make it "far-right" but there are similarities and patterns. So it struck me as odd that there isn't a subforum for it. I'm just curious whether there is actually demand for one. Its the numbers that counts.

Given that members have consistently expressed concerns over immigration, multi-culturalism, political correctness, cultural threats to western values such as Islam or cultural marxism/the left and feminism, etc, I thought I'd throw this idea out there to see if it sticks. It is true that self-censorship limits the scope of debates that are possible on the forums. many subjects such as asserting inequality on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc remain taboo. A subforum just gives you one area to be open and a tacit recognition that you have a legitimate point of view.

I'm voting no in the poll (obviously) but its seemed that- given all the changes over 2016 and the way politics has become fractured and polarised- there may now be enough people to make it worth the staff considering setting up a "nationalist only" sub forum. Left-wing nationalism does exist but its a bit of an abberation so in practice nationalism is often a solidly far right position. I don't agree with trump voters, etc and I don't believe setting up a subforum automatically invites more people (I mean we have an Amish DIR remember?) I do realise you get alot of **** for not accepting RFs prevailing "centre-left" political culture and could just want the breathing space. Maybe you want somewhere to discuss Fox News without it being treated as fake?

Just a thought.

Why not? Especially considering the rest of the board is effectively the 'socialist/far left' DIR.

 

[Kirran]

Why not? Especially considering the rest of the board is effectively the 'socialist/far left' DIR.

If only you knew what the far left was really like!

 

[Laika]

Horrifying, but at least I understand it now. Thanks for your patience.

No worries. It took me years to figure this all out, so I'm only too happy to share it for someone else's benefit.

 

[Kirran]

Horrifying, but at least I understand it now. Thanks for your patience.

By contrast, I'm an anarchist who leans towards anarcho-communism rather than anarcho-collectivism, and support absolutely none of that stuff!

Not even all the Marxists do

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

If only you knew what the far left was really like!

You have no idea what I know.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

So anyway. . . The subforum idea is a good one. I'd never post there of course, but why not?

The forum rules still apply, so the checks and balances are there. I'll always assume that everyone can be cool until proven otherwise.

How exactly does one discuss and perpetuate Nazi ideology within context of forum rules?

 

[Rival]

How exactly does one discuss and perpetuate Nazi ideology within context of forum rules?

Because Nazis aren't the only people on the Far Right.

 

[Kirran]

You have no idea what I know.

This is true. However, I can infer what you do not know based on your posts.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

This is true. However, I can infer what you do not know based on your posts.

Infer better. I am aware of what life was like under communism. I'm sure those that brought it in had no idea how it would turn out. I'm sure they meant well, just as you guys probably do.

 

[Kirran]

Infer better. I am aware of what life was like under communism. I'm sure those that brought it in had no idea how it would turn out. I'm sure they meant well, just as you guys probably do.

Many kinds of communism. I am no Bolshevik.

Anyway, I was referring to your saying that the forum was dominated by far leftists. There are like 5 or 6 far leftists here.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Many kinds of communism. I am no Bolshevik.

Anyway, I was referring to your saying that the forum was dominated by far leftists. There are like 5 or 6 far leftists here.

I remember a funny political graph test given here last year sometime. The cluster of dots on the left side was so thick you couldn't even read the names.