The Exclusivity of Christianity: Myth or Reality

[Kemosloby]

I can't understand that from a jewish perspective. I'd have to ask someone native to that language and culture rather than my interpretation which is influenced by christian understanding of the bible.

I'm more geared toward my comment about the interpreter. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

The jews interpret the OT differently than Jesus did, which is part of the reason they don't believe in Jesus. You could only go by if they translate the OT, that psalms does indeed say "you are gods".

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

One of the most commonly quoted passages from the bible to justify this view is: John 14:6

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

What's the best way of looking at this passage?

In the light of Matthew 7:21.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What makes more sense, that GOD HIMSELF physically wrestles with humans, or that he sends an angel like he did when he destroyed Sodom?

Depends whether you see God as a powerful, magical sky-being or as a construction to help people relate to the world around them.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The jews interpret the OT differently than Jesus did, which is part of the reason they don't believe in Jesus. You could only go by if they translate the OT, that psalms does indeed say "you are gods".

And the interpreting comment?

I said I couldn't speak intelligently about the "we are gods". It's sounds unchristian; and, that is just me. I'm not christian anymore to understand what a god is.

That brings me back to my question: if the god is not considered the father, who is god?

and my interpreting example.

I am a student interpreter. When I get my license and work with a Deaf and hearing client, I am a medium between the two given they have differing language and culture.

If the Deaf person talks about sex, I have to talk about it. I cannot change what he says, filter it, nor use my morals and change what he says.

Everything I say comes from my Deaf client (and the other way around). I am not my client; and, I represent her. I am her and she is me (we are one) when it comes to language/message/word but we are not one as in person/spirit/human beings.

There is a difference between the two. This is the exact same thing as jesus christ and god debate. Do you understand what I am saying?

 

[Deidre]

I tend to view Jesus' words in general, as an invitation not a mandate. That's just me, and how I see my faith. Many Christians seem to believe that Christianity is this secret club, with rules and regulations...which is why so many of them are not at peace and filled with anxiety about the next life, and even this life, IMO.

 

[Kemosloby]

I tend to view Jesus' words in general, as an invitation not a mandate. That's just me, and how I see my faith. Many Christians seem to believe that Christianity is this secret club, with rules and regulations...which is why so many of them are not at peace and filled with anxiety about the next life, and even this life, IMO.

I agree with you and it looks like the Apostles did too. But people do love their rules and regulations.

Romans 7:6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

 

[Kemosloby]

And the interpreting comment?

I said I couldn't speak intelligently about the "we are gods". It's sounds unchristian; and, that is just me. I'm not christian anymore to understand what a god is.

That brings me back to my question: if the god is not considered the father, who is god?

and my interpreting example.

I am a student interpreter. When I get my license and work with a Deaf and hearing client, I am a medium between the two given they have differing language and culture.

If the Deaf person talks about sex, I have to talk about it. I cannot change what he says, filter it, nor use my morals and change what he says.

Everything I say comes from my Deaf client (and the other way around). I am not my client; and, I represent her. I am her and she is me (we are one) when it comes to language/message/word but we are not one as in person/spirit/human beings.

There is a difference between the two. This is the exact same thing as jesus christ and god debate. Do you understand what I am saying?

If you mean who is God the Father, nobody knows. Nobody has ever seen the Father but the Son has seen him and testifies of him.

 

[Muffled]

Some Christians belief that there is only one way to God and that is through Jesus.

This could mean only Christians make it to heaven and people of all other faiths are destined for hell.

One of the most commonly quoted passages from the bible to justify this view is: John 14:6

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

What's the best way of looking at this passage?

Is their reasonable justification for Christians' claims that only their faith can save? Is there a better way of understanding salvation?

I believe one needs Jesus to get into the Kingdom of God and the alternative to that is Hell.

I believe it should be viewed as an answer to the question in verse 5:
John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; how know we the way?

I believe Christians have interpreted the place that Jesus goes to as Heaven because He is pictured in Heaven but I believe otherwise. I believe He went to a place where He could build the New Jerusalem (John 14:3). That is our destination when it arrives whether we are alive or dead.

I believe there are different types of salvation. Accepting Jesus is the only way to escape Hell. Receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior is the only sure way to be saved from sin although most people can avoid sin to some degree on their own.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus never says, "I am God."

I believe I do now.

 

[Neo Deist]

That would mean the biblical verses that say you can only be saved through jesus and the disciples claims and examples that they have been saved by jesus are false?

Pretty much. The Disciples did not write the Gospels or Book of Acts. The Gospels/Acts were written by 3rd party, anonymous authors, decades after Jesus' death. They were not eyewitnesses, and in many cases do not agree with each other. That is what happens when you have different writers, years apart, that were not actually there, trying to tell the same story. It's called hearsay.

One must also keep in mind that everything in the Bible was written thousands of years ago. They did not have microscopes or telescopes. They did not know about the Americas, Australia, Antarctica, Greenland, Iceland, Pacific islands, etc. When they wrote "the world" or "the earth," they were referring to that which was only known to them. If someone says, "well God knew about those places because He created them," then they forget that God (as Jesus) should have known that medical conditions were not demonic possessions, too.

The problem with many Christians (which I was a traditional one for 30 years) is that they idolize the Bible. They lose focus on the bigger picture (God), and instead focus on trying to prove their positions based off what the Bible says. Since they are not reading the Bible in Koine Greek, they have to rely on a translation that is done by others, and each translation has a copyright because of publishing houses that produce them. In short, people try and prove that their way is the right way, using a holy book that has numerous variations, and is not read in the original language, time period, geographic location or culture. They lose the idioms.

 

[Muffled]

But this is patently false. Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Abraham, Job, Jacob ... God HAS been seen.

Jesus: "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall SEE God". I mean, Jesus says you CAN.

This is why I'm against Christian exclusivity, because it flies in the face of practically everything in the bible, both OT and NT.

I don't believe you are understanding what you are reading.

I believe none of those people are evidence that God has been seen.

 

[Neo Deist]

John 8:19 Then they asked him, "Where is your father?" "You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also."

When Jesus says that to the Pharisees, he is telling them that they have lost their way. That they are not following God's Word and commandments from the Torah. Very rarely did Jesus ever give a straight answer.

 

[Neo Deist]

Alot of times the prepositions and sentence structures vary from bible to bible, because the interpreters don't always know exactly what it's saying. So putting things in the context of the conversation is at least as reliable.

That means you have to know the language and history/idioms in order to put it in context.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If you mean who is God the Father, nobody knows. Nobody has ever seen the Father but the Son has seen him and testifies of him.

No. If god is not god the father, who is god?

When christians refer to god, they refer to the creator. If the creator is not the father, who is the creator and how is he jesus christ?

 

[Neo Deist]

The jews interpret the OT differently than Jesus did, which is part of the reason they don't believe in Jesus.

What?

Jesus was a Jew. As a child, he taught in the temple and they were fascinated at how much he knew. As an adult, it's not that he taught differently, he ticked them off. The Jews were God's chosen people (according to them) and Jesus said that Jews and Gentiles were equals. It was a backhand to their pride. From there it was all downhill.

They don't believe he was the messiah as foretold in OT prophecy because he failed to fulfill the prophecies.

 

[David1967]

Yes, God the Son wrestled with Jacob, which was Jesus before he came in the flesh.

Not to seem difficult, but can you give me some scriptural evidence that it was the pre incarnate Jesus who wrestled with Jacob? Thanks

 

[David1967]

Because you can only be saved through jesus christ. Jesus is the representative of his father. So if you know the representative of the father (or intermediary hence the through) you will know the father.

That's why "if you knew me, you know the father" because "I am the intermediary between you and the father, so the only way to get to the father is through me."

Here you go Carlita;
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

[Kemosloby]

Not to seem difficult, but can you give me some scriptural evidence that it was the pre incarnate Jesus who wrestled with Jacob? Thanks

Christ was present there with the Israelites, the God of the Israelites

1 cor 10:4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

Nobody has ever seen the Father

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

It seems logical enough that it was Christ who wrestled with Jacob, and who spoke to Moses from the burning bush, and gave his commandments in the mountain. And who said you are gods.

John 10:34 Jesus replied, "Is it not written in your Law: 'I have said you are gods' ?

Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

 

[Kemosloby]

What?

Jesus was a Jew. As a child, he taught in the temple and they were fascinated at how much he knew. As an adult, it's not that he taught differently, he ticked them off. The Jews were God's chosen people (according to them) and Jesus said that Jews and Gentiles were equals. It was a backhand to their pride. From there it was all downhill.

They don't believe he was the messiah as foretold in OT prophecy because he failed to fulfill the prophecies.

The Jews had no idea about Gentiles being grafted in until after the crucifixion, the resurrection, Pentecost and some time after that.

 

[David1967]

Christ was present there with the Israelites, the God of the Israelites

1 cor 10:4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

Nobody has ever seen the Father

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

It seems logical enough that it was Christ who wrestled with Jacob, and who spoke to Moses from the burning bush, and gave his commandments in the mountain. And who said you are gods.

John 10:34 Jesus replied, "Is it not written in your Law: 'I have said you are gods' ?

Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

Well ,thanks. That is creative, but it takes creativity to make the angel that wrestled with Jacob, Jesus. Not saying you are wrong, but that is kinda vague.