The Exclusivity of Christianity: Myth or Reality

[omega2xx]

I often want to do things because it is the right thing to do, and the right thing to do is what God wants me to do. All the Abrahamic faiths believe in One God (although argubaly Christianity believes in three gods). The mystic connection we have with God, bring us to a place of wanting to serve Him rather than be self serving. That being said, as soon as I imagine I'm any better than anyone else then I am humbled. As Jesus said, he who is least is greatest and he who is first will later be last.

"Doing the right thing because God wants me to " sounds like doing it from duty, rather than from love of God. Being a Christian does make us want to serve Him, but we can serve with the wrong motive, and according to I Cor 13:1-3, if the motive isn't love of God, they are of no value.

Then that is a good place to be.

Right. Wanting to serve God is critical, but without the right motive, it is of no spiritual value.

While the scripture in the Torah was inspired by God, the requirement to obey all the laws of Moses changed with the New Covenant that Jesus brought. There is no longer a requirement for communities to put to death those who would work on the Sabbath.

God's moral law have not changed or been eliminated. IMO no death penalty was mandatory. One could always show mercy. Also IMO, the death penalty for breaking the Sabbath was to show the seriousness of breaking it. It was a day to remember what God has done for us: He sanctified us(Ex 31:13; it was a day to remember Him setting us free from bondage(Deut 5:15). It was a reminder that we do not have to work for what He has done for us. IMO, that is how we keep it holy. WE need to worship God every day, not just on the Sabbath.

Both Moses and Jesus brought a Covenant that has universal truths for all times, but also teachings that are for a particular era. The commandment to love God is according to Jesus the greatest commandment. However this teaching is also found in the book of Deuteronomy. What God requires from us in this day is not necessarily the same as it was during the time of Christ. We live in the twenty first century and the challenges are very different to what they we two thousand years ago.

I have never accepted that time changes the message in either the OT or the NT. What does God require of us today, that He did not require since the time of Christ or for that matter the time of Adam and Eve?

When Jesus indicated that John the Baptist represented the return of the Old Testament prophet Elijah, it was apparent that he had filled a prophecy in the book of Malachi, not literally but spiritually. This is the only example of a returned prophet in the NT. The return of Jesus is similar.

Since John was literally baptizing, he fulfilled the prophecy literally.

Even though the Jews are wrong for denying Jesus was their Messiah, they still believe in Moses and God still loves them. Even though the Christians like the Jews of old have faied to recognise 'The Glory of God' has come, they still believe in Jesus. If I am right, then you are still right about Jesus.

I don't know where you get the idea that Christians do not recognize the glory of God,. That might be liberal theology bu it is not conservative theology.

That is why we need both faith and deeds. One without the other can not work.

Eph 2:8-9 make it crystal clear we are not save by works. Our works point to the fact that we are save and want to be obedient. James is basically say, our works point to our salvation and if we have no works, we are not saved.

The gospel has been preached to all the nations and the Jews have returned to their homeland. It makes more sense for wars, floods and earthquakes to be a consequence of failing to recognise the Messiah. That being said WW2 brought Europe together in a way that is unparallelled in the history of Europe. This was prophecised by Baha'u'llah.

IMO, when England left the common market, the unity, if there ever really was one, was broken. Is Baha'u'llah a God or a prophet. If he is not a God, and he is not according to the Bible, he may be a god.He is not a prophet of God by getting one prophecy right.

Once again, it is through both Faith and good works that we are saved. The two reinforce each other. A house needs a good foundation to stand.,

Since that theology contradict clear Biblical teachings is one reason I could never accept Bahai as the true religion.

There is contradiction between the Covenant of Moses and Christ. They serve different purposes. The law of Moses was in part to prepare the Hebrew people to take the land of Canaan and to establish law and order in the land God had promised them through Abraham. This was not the main concern of Christ and the Jews naturally thoughht the Messiah would be a warrior King like King David, conquer the Romans and establish Gods laws in Isreal again. They still fail to understand how Jesus was their King. His purpose was vey different from that of Moses.

There is no contradiction between Moses and Jesus. The law was give for3 purposes.--to let man know what sin was so we could try to avoid sinning and to confess when we did break a law(Rom 7:7) To kill us, spiritually(Rom 7:9) and to lead us to Christ(Gal3:24).

The law can't produce righteousness(Gal 3:21) If keeping the law can save us, Jesus died needlessly(Gal 2:21).

Looking forward to our next encounter.

 

[Muffled]

By exclusive I mean only the Faithful believers in Christ going to heaven and everyone else going to hell.

Another key biblical figure was Cyrus the great, the Persian King who ordered the rebuild of the Jewish temple and Jerusalem. Isaiah referred to him as the anointed one of God. Yet he was not a Jew, and some scholars would argue he was Zoroastrian. Would he be saved according to your Christian theology?



The book of Revelation is of course highly symbolic and has the focus of much wild speculation. There is much metaphor around the events described and unless you want to believe that a new city called Jerusalem literally descends from heaven, I would be a little cautious about how to interpret the lamb's (presumably the returned Christ) book of life.

I believe in a literal city of New Jerusalem.

 

[Muffled]

Let me quibble a bit---You don't believe 1 +1 = 2, you know it does.

I believe then that I know that only receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior will keep a person from from going to Hell and will ensure eternal life i the physical Kingdom of God.

 

[Muffled]

This must be my day for quibbling, but only # 2 is necessary. When we accept Jesus our sins are washed away by the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit---Titus 3:5)

After our conversion, we must confess our sins.

I believe I am thinking of the person who has an airplane ticket but thinks it is counterfeit so never gets on the plane. When the Rapture comes who will go to be gathered, those who believe in being rapture or those who don't. Need less to say I don't believe in an instantaneous Rapture. I do believe we will be changed into our eternal bodies instantaneously.

 

[McBell]

Let me quibble a bit---You don't believe 1 +1 = 2, you know it does.

not always.
For example, one pile of sand added to another pile of sand is one pile of sand....

 

[omega2xx]

I believe then that I know that only receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior will keep a person from from going to Hell and will ensure eternal life i the physical Kingdom of God.

You believe that because you KNOW it is true.

 

[omega2xx]

I believe I am thinking of the person who has an airplane ticket but thinks it is counterfeit so never gets on the plane. When the Rapture comes who will go to be gathered, those who believe in being rapture or those who don't. Need less to say I don't believe in an instantaneous Rapture. I do believe we will be changed into our eternal bodies instantaneously.

Why do you believe Jesus is the only way, but do not believe in the rapture? Both statements are in the same book.

 

[omega2xx]

not always.
For example, one pile of sand added to another pile of sand is one pile of sand....

That is sort of like the glass is never half empty. What id not filled with water is filled with air.

My son teaches math, I will to see what he thinks about that. I like it.

 

[Milton Platt]

Some Christians belief that there is only one way to God and that is through Jesus.

This could mean only Christians make it to heaven and people of all other faiths are destined for hell.

One of the most commonly quoted passages from the bible to justify this view is: John 14:6

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

What's the best way of looking at this passage?

Is their reasonable justification for Christians' claims that only their faith can save? Is there a better way of understanding salvation?

Aren't all religions exclusive to varying degrees?

 

[whirlingmerc]

Reality
Jesus said every plant my Father did not plant will be routed up
suggesting in some sense some views are from God and some not

Matt 15:13
He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up.

 

[blü 2]

"Jesus never says, I am God"

More, he says, I am not God eg

Luke 18:
18 And a ruler asked him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 19 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”

John 8
42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.

John 20
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."

And much more.

As you can see, these statements are attributed to Jesus himself.

(They can't be reconciled to the Trinity doctrine, which doesn't appear with any substance till about the 4th cent ─ and, as the Catholic Encyclopedia and the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church agree, is anyway incoherent, in their terms a 'mystery'.)

 

[Muffled]

Why do you believe Jesus is the only way, but do not believe in the rapture? Both statements are in the same book.

I do not believe in an instantaneous Rapture. I believe people will be called to gather and as groups will be raptured.

 

[Muffled]

"Jesus never says, I am God"

More, he says, I am not God eg

Luke 18:
18 And a ruler asked him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 19 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”

John 8
42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.

John 20
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."

And much more.

As you can see, these statements are attributed to Jesus himself.

(They can't be reconciled to the Trinity doctrine, which doesn't appear with any substance till about the 4th cent ─ and, as the Catholic Encyclopedia and the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church agree, is anyway incoherent, in their terms a 'mystery'.)

I believe I do now. You do realize that the argument doesn't work javascript:void(null);because I have said the equivalent to it.

I believe that is not in any scripture anywhere.

I believe this is evidence that Jesus is God.

I don't believe they need to be reconciled but simply understood.

 

[Muffled]

Aren't all religions exclusive to varying degrees?

I believe they can be but not all religions make the same claims. Christianity does claim that receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior is the only way to avoid Hell.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Aren't all religions exclusive to varying degrees?

Yes, I agree that is true. However I would argue a line needs to be drawn somewhere. The question is where that line should be. There must be a balance between inclusion and exclusion, just as in a community there are limits to antisocial behaviour that can be tolerated.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Reality
Jesus said every plant my Father did not plant will be routed up
suggesting in some sense some views are from God and some not

Matt 15:13
He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up.

I agree.

However if you really knew the bible you would appreciate that it is a book of change. Jesus brought a message from God as Moses did. The exigencies during the time of Moses were vastly different from the time of Christ, just as the time of Christ is incomparably different from the present day.

 

[RESOLUTION]

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Some people will interpret that verse in a literal sense, that only by accepting Jesus and using him as the intermediary or savior, will they get to God.

Others (myself included) understand that what Jesus meant was "but by me = by my teachings." In other words, living according to what is written about the laws found in the OT. That is also why Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-18 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

The Law refers to the Torah, or the first five books of the Bible. The Prophets refers to the books named after the major/minor prophets of the OT (like Isaiah). Jesus is saying to live according to the Word.

No where in the Bible do you find anything about having to accept Jesus into your heart. That is merely ceremonial. Most Christians run into the problem of having to read the Bible in their native language (English for most) and don't understand Koine Greek (NT language). They rely on translation X, and those are subject to biases of the translation teams working for publishing houses or religious organizations.

Having said all of that, it is fine for Christians to believe their way is the right way, if they live a moral life and follow the Word. It does not mean that they are right, but no harm = no foul. However, I personally do not think that their way is the only way for a variety of reasons. The Cosmic Theology thread (last paragraph) in the Deism DIR goes over "why".

The answer really is in the teaching. Christ obeyed the full letter of the law. The fullest letter of the
whole of that Law is to love God. Love your neighbour. The OT shows that in obeying Gods words those who
know him were given the Holy Spirit.

In the OT, very few were known to be reborn of the Holy Spirit.
In the NT we see the way of receiving the Spirit is the way Abraham received his righteousness by believing
what God had said about his Son.
You see that those who believe what God has said about his only Son are accepted as righteous,just as
Abraham.


Everything Accomplished... was that at his death and resurrection or was the accomplishment the Holy Spirit
being received by all who believed what God said about Jesus Christ?

If two commandments sum up all the the Law and teachings of the Prophets then the clearest message I can
in the evidence of the bible is this:-

The law and teachings are about loving God and loving others. If we love God we do not break the commandments
against GOD by doing those wrong things against our neigbours.

As humans we sin and in the grace of God through Christ we are saved from that sin.
But living for God, we cannot do in our own human sinful nature and strength. The Holy Spirit is the person
who teaches and enables us, by his power and presence to be the people God created us to be.

So no Christian or Jewish way...but Gods way by truth in love and Spirit. Christ made it clearer in John 4.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

In OT and in NT it is always by Spirit and Truth...

 

[Milton Platt]

Yes, I agree that is true. However I would argue a line needs to be drawn somewhere. The question is where that line should be. There must be a balance between inclusion and exclusion, just as in a community there are limits to antisocial behaviour that can be tolerated.

Religious divisions and exclusions are not simply about anti-social behaviors. They are usually doctrinal in nature and revolve around which god is the right god (if any) and which version of that god is the right version, and after that, which are the correct beliefs and practices.