Confusion in just the fifth commandment and implications

[peacecrusader888]

Mesternia is correct. There is nothing in the Holy Bible (King James Version) that states that the seventh day of the week is Saturday or Sunday. Exodus 20:10 just states that "the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God".

But during the time of Jesus, He taught His followers to observe Sabbath on the day following the Jewish Sabbath, which is now called as Sunday (Mark 16:1). Following the seventh day of the week is the first day. When is the first day of the week? Please read John 20:1 and John 20:19.

 

[Deeje]

Actually, the use of the term "the Lord's Day" was used in the early church, but where I think the confusion comes in is that the word "Lord" in this case refers to Jesus. The transition was gradual, taking place in the 2nd century through the celebration of the "agape meal", which was on Sunday, that eventually took priority over Shabbat.

The "Lord's Day" seems to have been entirely misinterpreted by the early church, eager to accommodate the introduction of apostate concepts "gradually" into their increasing range of religious traditions. By the time of Constantine's announced "state religion", Sunday fitted in perfectly with the day dedicated to sun worship in the Roman Empire....simply inferring a "Christian" reason for it....no one complained apparently. The "Lord's Day" wrongly attributed to Sunday, became a substitute Sabbath. God never sanctioned such a thing.

As for the reason why they misunderstood John's reference to "the Lord's Day", firstly, Biblical usage the word “day” may denote a period of time far longer than 24 hours. (Genesis 2:4; John 8:56; 2 Peter 3:8) Contextual evidence indicates that “the Lord’s Day” of Revelation 1:10 is not a particular 24-hour day. Since it was “by inspiration” that John came to be “in the Lord’s day,” the reference could not be to some particular day of the week. It would not have been necessary for John to have been inspired to come to a specific day of the week. Therefore, “the Lord’s day” must be that future time during which events that John was privileged to see in vision would take place. This included such happenings as the war in heaven and the ouster of Satan from heaven, the destruction of Babylon the Great and the kings of the earth and their armies, the binding and abyssing of Satan, the resurrection of the dead, and Christ’s Thousand Year Reign.

The context points to Jesus Christ as the Lord whose “day” it is. Immediately after coming to be “in the Lord’s day,” John heard, not the voice of Almighty God, but that of the resurrected Son of God. (Revelation 1:10-18) Also, the ‘day of the Lord’ mentioned at 1 Corinthians 1:8; 5:5; and 2 Corinthians 1:14 is that of Jesus Christ.

The rest of your post is correct as the observance of the full Law is only mandated for Jews.

Thank you.

 

[metis]

Mesternia is correct. There is nothing in the Holy Bible (King James Version) that states that the seventh day of the week is Saturday or Sunday. Exodus 20:10 just states that "the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God".

But during the time of Jesus, He taught His followers to observe Sabbath on the day following the Jewish Sabbath, which is now called as Sunday (Mark 16:1). Following the seventh day of the week is the first day. When is the first day of the week? Please read John 20:1 and John 20:19.

But the "Sabbath" is the name of a day of the week and is simply not just any day of the week.

 

[metis]

The "Lord's Day" seems to have been entirely misinterpreted by the early church, eager to accommodate the introduction of apostate concepts "gradually" into their increasing range of religious traditions. By the time of Constantine's announced "state religion", Sunday fitted in perfectly with the day dedicated to sun worship in the Roman Empire....simply inferring a "Christian" reason for it....no one complained apparently. The "Lord's Day" wrongly attributed to Sunday, became a substitute Sabbath. God never sanctioned such a thing.

As for the reason why they misunderstood John's reference to "the Lord's Day", firstly, Biblical usage the word “day” may denote a period of time far longer than 24 hours. (Genesis 2:4; John 8:56; 2 Peter 3:8) Contextual evidence indicates that “the Lord’s Day” of Revelation 1:10 is not a particular 24-hour day. Since it was “by inspiration” that John came to be “in the Lord’s day,” the reference could not be to some particular day of the week. It would not have been necessary for John to have been inspired to come to a specific day of the week. Therefore, “the Lord’s day” must be that future time during which events that John was privileged to see in vision would take place. This included such happenings as the war in heaven and the ouster of Satan from heaven, the destruction of Babylon the Great and the kings of the earth and their armies, the binding and abyssing of Satan, the resurrection of the dead, and Christ’s Thousand Year Reign.

The context points to Jesus Christ as the Lord whose “day” it is. Immediately after coming to be “in the Lord’s day,” John heard, not the voice of Almighty God, but that of the resurrected Son of God. (Revelation 1:10-18) Also, the ‘day of the Lord’ mentioned at 1 Corinthians 1:8; 5:5; and 2 Corinthians 1:14 is that of Jesus Christ.




Thank you.

I'm gonna hafta repeat myself here, but the move to a Sunday observance was made sometime in the 2nd century, two full centuries before Constantine. Secondly, gentiles are not bound by the Law. And, to repeat, the "Lord" in this case is a reference to Jesus, not God.

Unless you're Jewish, you have noting to worry about in regards to which day you may observe. Also, just a reminder that the Sabbath Laws have various stipulations attached to them as found in Torah, and Christians generally don't observe them even on Sunday.

Take care.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Are Christians not supposed to observe the 10 Commandments? Jesus said if you love Him you should keep the commandments. So Christians should not murder or steal or commit adultery and should remember the sabbath.So the sabbth is not just for Jews. The 10 Commandments are universal rules for all people to live by.

 

[metis]

Are Christians not supposed to observe the 10 Commandments? Jesus said if you love Him you should keep the commandments. So Christians should not murder or steal or commit adultery and should remember the sabbath.So the sabbth is not just for Jews. The 10 Commandments are universal rules for all people to live by.

There are 613 Commandments as specified in Torah: http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

On top of that, how did Jesus answer when asked what was "the greatest Commandment"? Did he say to follow all 10 or did he narrow it down? What about observing Shabbat, which the vast majority of Christians do not do?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So the ten commandments and my understanding of them are unimportant - I must admit that seems a little strange and counterintuitive.

Your intuition has yet to impress despite what I take to have been your best effort. Oh, well ...

 

[Deeje]

I'm gonna hafta repeat myself here, but the move to a Sunday observance was made sometime in the 2nd century, two full centuries before Constantine.

I wasn't disputing that metis....I was just saying that when Constantine made it official, there was no opposition, probably because it was something they were already doing. Its name betrays its origins, just like all the other days of the week on the Gregorian calendar. The Romans worshipped the sun and Sunday was no surprise as their holy day. No one opposed the retention of the names of the false gods to which those days were dedicated.

Secondly, gentiles are not bound by the Law. And, to repeat, the "Lord" in this case is a reference to Jesus, not God.

Agree again.

Unless you're Jewish, you have nothing to worry about in regards to which day you may observe. Also, just a reminder that the Sabbath Laws have various stipulations attached to them as found in Torah, and Christians generally don't observe them even on Sunday.

Yes, it seems a bit silly to observe a Sabbath and not observe what goes with it. (strict commands as to what can and cannot be done) Still there is no command for Christians to hold a Sabbath anyway, though Jewish Christians can if they want to.

 

[metis]

I wasn't disputing that metis....I was just saying that when Constantine made it official, there was no opposition, probably because it was something they were already doing. Its name betrays its origins, just like all the other days of the week on the Gregorian calendar. The Romans worshipped the sun and Sunday was no surprise as their holy day. No one opposed the retention of the names of the false gods to which those days were dedicated.



Agree again.



Yes, it seems a bit silly to observe a Sabbath and not observe what goes with it. (strict commands as to what can and cannot be done) Still there is no command for Christians to hold a Sabbath anyway, though Jewish Christians can if they want to.

But what the Romans were worshiping has literally nothing to do with who the church was worshiping, but I'm glad we're in agreement on most things though.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

In Matthew 19:17-18 Jesus said to keep the commandments and listed some of them to show He was talking about the 10 commandments. I am constantly amazed how people read something in the Bible and then do their best to prove it does not mean what it says. keep the commandments does not simply mean love God and love one another.

 

[McBell]

I am constantly amazed how people read something in the Bible and then do their best to prove it does not mean what it says.

um...
Is that not exactly what you tried in your Overwhelming Historical Proof thread?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Sadly, the "church" changed many of its beliefs under Constantine's rule. Constantine's beliefs were enforced under penalty of death. Most of his beliefs came from pagan ideas and the "church" was forced to accept them or cease to exist.

 

[McBell]

Sadly, the "church" changed many of its beliefs under Constantine's rule. Constantine's beliefs were enforced under penalty of death. Most of his beliefs came from pagan ideas and the "church" was forced to accept them or cease to exist.

um...
How is it that one mere mortal man is able to so thoroughly thwart an all powerful all knowing god?

 

[metis]

In Matthew 19:17-18 Jesus said to keep the commandments and listed some of them to show He was talking about the 10 commandments. I am constantly amazed how people read something in the Bible and then do their best to prove it does not mean what it says. keep the commandments does not simply mean love God and love one another.

The 10 Commandments are the first 10 of 613 Commandments as found in Torah, and one cannot logically just say they;ll observe the 10 but then ignore the rest.

Secondly, if one does follow how Jesus actually answered the question I posted, love of one's fellow man/woman would not allow adultery, murder, etc. So, what Jesus did was to narrow it down to two Commandments, 1.love of God and 2.love of one's fellow man/woman.

There's more but I gotta go for the evening, so take care.

 

[Deeje]

But what the Romans were worshiping has literally nothing to do with who the church was worshiping,

Actually Constantine fused paganism and Christianity. To consolidate his divided empire he took the dominant beliefs of all his subjects and made them into one "universal" religion....so "who" or "what" Roman Catholics were worshipping was really up for grabs. You worship the one whose ways you adopt....Christianity adopted way more paganism than paganism adopted from Christianity. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)
Even the adoration of Mary was tied into ancient mother goddess worship.

Constantine never became a Christian until on his deathbed.....but it is said that he also sacrificed to Zeus the same day.

Roman sun worship is as evident in Catholic imagery today as it ever was.
The nimbus (halo) is a relic of sun worship....

....and the monstrance and the wafer is also in the shape of the sun.

And where would I find a picture like this from anything that is written in the Christian scriptures?

Can you imagine Jesus and his apostles dressed like this? This is what men turned the church into......

Jesus instituted none of this. Every vestige of this is man made.

but I'm glad we're in agreement on most things though.

Its nice to have some points of agreement at least, though I am not sure that you agree with what I have posted here....?

 

[Deeje]

um...
How is it that one mere mortal man is able to so thoroughly thwart an all powerful all knowing god?

Since an apostasy was foretold, an apostasy took place.....Constantine was not the cause, but merely an instrument along the way for that to take place more thoroughly.

Why would God thwart what he had foretold?

It is evidence of the Bible's truthfulness rather than any failure on God's part.

 

[metis]

Actually Constantine fused paganism and Christianity. To consolidate his divided empire he took the dominant beliefs of all his subjects and made them into one "universal" religion....so "who" or "what" Roman Catholics were worshipping was really up for grabs. You worship the one whose ways you adopt....Christianity adopted way more paganism that paganism adopted from Christianity. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)
Even the adoration of Mary was tied into ancient mother goddess worship.

Constantine never became a Christian until on his deathbed.....but it is said that he also sacrificed to Zeus the same day.

Roman sun worship is as evident in Catholic imagery today as it ever was.
The nimbus (halo) is a relic of sun worship....

Can you imagine Jesus and his apostles dressed like this? This is what men turned the church into......

OK, to different points:

One is that the idea that Constantine "fused paganism and Christianity" to form Catholicism is totally absurd.

Second, Catholics worship God, not Zeus nor Godzilla.

Third, the early church had and has deep respect for Mary, which actually does show up in your Bible as well.

Fourth, what Constantine may or may not have worshiped has nothing to do with what the RCC teaches.

Fifth, the issue of "light" versus "darkness" also shows up in your Bible, so are you saying that Paul, who penned such imagery, was a "pagan"? And your statement that Catholics worship the sun is so absolutely a pathetic falsehood that it is unbelievable you would write that nonsense.

Sixth, do you think most Jews back during Jesus time dressed like you're dressing today? The priestly robes mimic what actually was worn back then.

Listen Deeje, even though I am not Catholic, I attend mass almost every weekend with my Catholic wife, and since we've been married for 49 years now, I have literally been to thousands of masses. When I read what you wrote above, of I didn't know what you were referring to, I would not be able to even know which religion, let alone a denomination, you were talking about. All you are doing is regurgitating one piece of nonsense after another, and it's a shame that you are swallowing the lies and hatred that you are being taught.

Here is coverage of basic Catholic beliefs from a non-Catholic source, namely Encyclopedia Britannica, so let me recommend that you actually read what Catholics believe versus what you're being told to believe what they believe: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Roman-Catholicism/Beliefs-and-practices

 

[metis]

Since an apostasy was foretold, an apostasy took place.....Constantine was not the cause, but merely an instrument along the way for that to take place more thoroughly.

Why would God thwart what he had foretold?

It is evidence of the Bible's truthfulness rather than any failure on God's part.

Since Jesus said he would guide his church until the end of time, and since the Catholic church, which later divided into several different denominations (Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic, and Anglican), was the church of the apostles, do you believe Jesus lied? Is it that maybe the Protestants and the J.W.'s may have formed the "apostasy" you are referring to above by denying the guidance of the H.S. and the reality of apostolic succession that one sees beginning in the gospels and Acts?

Just a thought.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... since the Catholic church, which later divided into several different denominations (Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic, and Anglican), was the church of the apostles, ...

Evidence?

 

[metis]

Evidence?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#Early_Church_and_Christological_Councils

Read part 3