Let's Talk About the Holy Spirit

[savagewind]

Will there be punishment for the people loyal to the people who twist scripture?

My troll has a word. Go ahead honey. Will there be punishment for the people who couldn't care less about twisted scripture?

 

[savagewind]

If you knew someone or some group was propagating a twisted version of God's word, would you not try to stop them?

Would you not warn them?

If the Bible is God's Word

It was written via The Holy Spirit

If any words were changed, they would no longer be of The Holy Spirit

If they are being taught as though they are of The Holy Spirit

Could that be speaking against The Holy Spirit?

 

[Yoshua]

There are only two individuals in all of the Bible said to be in control of the angelic forces...Jesus and Michael.

Revelation 12:7, which describes “Michael and his angels” as fighting a vital war that results in the ousting of Satan the Devil and his wicked angels from heaven.

Matthew 13:41...."The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness"

If you don't believe that Jesus is God, the scriptures reveal so much more about him than that doctrine will allow.

Hi Deeje,

Two individuals? do you mean that Jesus Christ and Archangel Michael are separate persons? or they are only one person?

I believed that Jesus is God. Do you believe that Jesus is mighty God?

Thanks

 

[Deeje]

Hi Deeje,

Two individuals? do you mean that Jesus Christ and Archangel Michael are separate persons? or they are only one person?

There are only two who are said to be in charge of the angelic forces as the scriptures said. This to us, apart from Paul's words about Jesus calling the dead 'with the voice of an archangel' points to Jesus being the Archangel Michael, because there is only one Archangel. Jesus has several name throughout the Bible, but Yahweh isn't one of them. He received a new name when he returned to heaven. (Revelation 3:12)

I believed that Jesus is God. Do you believe that Jesus is mighty God?

I believe that Jesus is the "son of God" which makes him "divine" and a "mighty one" (theos) but he is not the Almighty one whose name alone is YHWH (Yahweh, Jehovah.
Psalm 83:18)
Nowhere in all of scripture is Jesus called YHWH or "Almighty".

 

[savagewind]

Against - a most interesting word! Matthew 12:32

30 Whoever is not on my side is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.+ 31 “For this reason I say to you, every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven.+ 32 For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him;+ but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things* nor in that to come.+

More interesting every second. The Watchtower corporation has again mimicked Babylon the Great here at Matthew 12:31.

It is written; And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

But the word translated "against" is not against. So?

http://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm

τοῦ Against?

It might be OK because in the next verse it also translated against. Yes? No! That was elaborated by MAN also. Look it up, if you are able.

Is it ok if God's Word gets changed, but for good (according to you?)

It looks like to me Jesus said that the blasphemy TO the Spirit will not be forgiven.

So, to say something against anything can be done apart from the thing, but the essence (food) of the idea is that they sin TO the Holy Spirit.

OK? Please get in line with the true scriptures. John 1:23 John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, "I am the voice of one calling in the wilderness, 'Make straight the way for the Lord.'"

 

[savagewind]

What difference does it make if it be to or against?

Anybody can sin against The Holy Spirit, and they do. I suppose everyone does. That is why they - The Great Teachers of The World* - have to do tricky calisthenics to explain what it means.

But only a believer sins to it.

*Oh, come on! Was that necessary?

So then, what does it mean that it is not forgiven? It means your house will be what it will be as The Holy Spirit will not undo the harm you do to IT.

9For we are co-workers in God's service; you are God's field, God's building. 10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work. 14If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames.

 

[Yoshua]

Yes. All angels are called "sons of God" and many of them are attendants, messengers and agents. They all serve their Father as his ministers. Being a servant of God is not slavery, (as humans might interpret it) it is a privilege.

The Word was unique however because of his being the "only begotten" of his Father. As the only direct creation of God, he is a true "monogenes" in any definition of the word....an "only child". His spirit "brothers" were part of creation that came "through" the son, not "from" him. He is the "firstborn" of creation and was used as the agency through which all creation came into being. (Col 1:15, 16) Michael the Archangel is commander of all the Angels because he outranks them.

If we will try to follow that Jesus Christ is an angel, we may try and use it in this sample scripture:

John 3:16
16. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten (angel) Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
17. "For God did not send the (angel) Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him(angel).
18. "He who believes in Him (angel) is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten (angel)Son of God.

How could Jesus be the "only begotten" (unique) if He is an angel??

That would mean that Archangel Michael, a n angel that the Saviour of our sins?

How come that an angel is a mighty God?

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Are you forgetting that Jesus himself was seen as a false Messiah? His disciples were ostracized and persecuted because the Jews saw them as misguided apostates.
What was it that prompted some Jewish people to accept Jesus, as opposed to other false Messiah's that came and went in that period, whilst others cried out for his execution? (Matthew 27:25)

Only those who were at odds with the Jewish system were drawn to Jesus, who gave them hope whilst severely criticizing its leaders. Likewise we find that only those who are at odds with Christendom's teachings and the conduct of her clergy, are drawn to Jehovah's Witnesses. (John 6:44) Jesus was sent exclusively to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" because these ones saw Jesus for what he truly was, not through the distorted lens of apostate Judaism.
So, we find that people today who cannot accept the corrupt teachings of Christendom, are more likely to listen to our message. We offer it to all as Jesus did, but only the Father sees how the heart of an individual responds to the Kingdom message that he is having preached "in all the inhabited earth". (Matthew 24:14)

Hi Deeje,

John 4:25-26
25 The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."
26 Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he." NIV

Maybe for Jews, He is not the Messiah but Jesus already acknowledged that He is the Messiah. I will believed Jesus rather than the Jews in Jesus' time. We look forward and pointed to Jesus, not to the Jews. Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life. There is no corruption in Jesus' teachings therefore His teachings were alive and penetrate to people's heart who will follow His word.

We trace it through what Jesus himself foretold. It was he who warned of the "weeds" which he said would be planted by the devil "while men were sleeping". This is a spiritual sleep where Christianity lost its zeal and purpose. The 'wheat' were still there but hopelessly outnumbered. These were among the ones executed by the church as heretics because they dared to expose their false teachings and conduct.

At the close of the first century, the apostasy had already begun but the presence of the apostles had restrained them. (2 Thess 2:3-7) But once the apostles were out of the way, with the last of the Christian scriptures completed by the apostle John, the weeds were to grow and flourish as a counterfeit kind of Christianity emerged. By the 4th century, the situation was ripe for the take over of Roman Catholicism, which was a fusion of pagan Roman sun worship and weakened Christianity. The "weeds" Jesus said were to grow along with the "wheat" until the harvest time, when a clear separation was to take place. We are living in the time of that separation. Nothing written after the close of the Bible canon can be relied upon to be uncontaminated by the teachings of men. Only at 'the time of the end' would a cleansed body of Christians appear, given "insight" by God into all things. Gradually, they weeded out all the doctrines that didn't belong and began to refine their own worship.

Jesus said we would recognize his true disciples by their "fruits" or conduct. Their actions would determine if they were truly Christ's followers because they would follow the teachings of the Master, rather than follow the direction of men that went against what Christ taught.

So you are saying that the Roman Catholicism does pagan worship. How about those men after Paul, the Apostle, the early church fathers who followed the footstep of the gospel of Christ? Do you think that there is one who is alive then to propagate the gospel?

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Please spare me....I am fully capable of praying for myself...and others who might be reading what I post.....we don't pray to the same God...believe me.

Deeje,

For me, the name "Jehovah" is not a problem. I could pray to Jehovah, we sang songs with the name Jehovah. Jehovah is God, our Father.

Thanks

 

[james2ko]

There are only two who are said to be in charge of the angelic forces as the scriptures said. This to us, apart from Paul's words about Jesus calling the dead 'with the voice of an archangel' points to Jesus being the Archangel Michael, because there is only one Archangel. Jesus has several name throughout the Bible, but Yahweh isn't one of them. He received a new name when he returned to heaven. (Revelation 3:12)

The term "adonai" in Psalms 110:5 was altered by the Masorites. In much earlier manuscripts (google 134 emendations of the Sopherim), it read "YHVH". When read in context with the previous verses, David actually spoke of two Jehovah's!

 

[Deeje]

If we will try to follow that Jesus Christ is an angel, we may try and use it in this sample scripture:

John 3:16
16. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten (angel) Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
17. "For God did not send the (angel) Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him(angel).
18. "He who believes in Him (angel) is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten (angel)Son of God.

How could Jesus be the "only begotten" (unique) if He is an angel??

Because he isn't just an angel. He is the commander of all the angels. The highest ranking personage in heaven, next to his Father. What do you think an angel is?

I think you need to understand that the "son of God" is the only direct creation of his God and Father. He is "begotten" but in a different way to all of God's other "sons". This is God's unique "firstborn", unlike the angels who were brought into existence by God's son, the Word (Logos) was the very first being to exist...before all other things came into being, he was at his Father's side as his "Master Worker". (Proverbs 8:30, 31) He is the "image" of his Father and reflected his qualities like no other. (Colossians 1:15, 16; Revelation 3:14)

That would mean that Archangel Michael, a n angel that the Saviour of our sins?

Who said that the savior couldn't be an angel? In order to redeem mankind, all the savior needed to be was the perfect equivalent of Adam.
A sinless life had to be sacrificed for a sinless life. That was the price to ransom the human race. Jesus didn't need to be God to be the savior.
He had to die like any other human, so if Jesus had been God, no human would have been able to kill him. Do you think mere humans can kill the Almighty?

How come that an angel is a mighty God?

What is a god? "Theos" in Greek simply means a "mighty one" and Jesus certainly fits that description. There are many "gods" in the Bible who are not Yahweh. Even satan is called a "theos". Jesus called his Father "the only true God" without including himself (John 17:3) and he said that we are to worship him "alone". (Luke 4:8)

 

[Deeje]

Deeje,

For me, the name "Jehovah" is not a problem. I could pray to Jehovah, we sang songs with the name Jehovah. Jehovah is God, our Father.

Thanks

Anyone can pray to Jehovah, but unless you are one of his own, obeying the teachings of his son, he will not hear you.

Christendom's hands are full of innocent blood because she involves herself with the wars of the nations.....something God does not sanction and something that no Christian can participate in. (James 4:4; Romans 12:17-21)

When Israel shed blood without God's sanction he said...

"And when you spread out your palms, I hide my eyes from you. Although you offer many prayers, I am not listening; Your hands are filled with blood."

 

[Deeje]

The term "adonai" in Psalms 110:5 was altered by the Masorites. In much earlier manuscripts (google 134 emendations of the Sopherim), it read "YHVH". When read in context with the previous verses, David actually spoke of two Jehovah's!

Here is the whole of Psalm 110...

"Jehovah declared to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”
2 Jehovah will extend the scepter of your power out of Zion, saying:
“Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.”
3 Your people will offer themselves willingly on the day of your military force.
In splendid holiness, from the womb of the dawn,
You have your company of young men just like dewdrops.
4 Jehovah has sworn an oath, and he will not change his mind:
“You are a priest forever
In the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek!”
5 Jehovah will be at your right hand;
He will crush kings on the day of his anger.
6 He will execute judgment against the nations;
He will fill the land with dead bodies.
He will crush the leader of a vast land.
7 He will drink from the stream along the road.
Therefore, he will hold his head high."

This is a prophesy about the Messiah and his rulership. There are not two Jehovah's at all.

 

[savagewind]

Anyone can pray to Jehovah, but unless you are one of his own, obeying the teachings of his son, he will not hear you.

Christendom's hands are full of innocent blood because she involves herself with the wars of the nations.....something God does not sanction and something that no Christian can participate in. (James 4:4; Romans 12:17-21)

When Israel shed blood without God's sanction he said...

"And when you spread out your palms, I hide my eyes from you. Although you offer many prayers, I am not listening; Your hands are filled with blood."

So, what the Jehovah's Witnesses must do is to view themselves sinless, because they obey what Jesus says which is to remove the beam out of your eye and then you will see clearly to remove all the specks. Or, maybe JWs believe there are degrees of sin, like the Catholic Church does. Is sin sin? No! There are big ones (beams) and little ones (specks). Jehovah's Witnesses don't have beams so they remove beams. I mean, they TRY, to remove beams, which, I think, Jesus never said. Did he? Do beams mean big sin and specks mean little sins?

 

[Deeje]

Matthew 18:2-4 (ESV Strong's) 2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them 3 and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 10:21 (ESV Strong's) “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.

LOL...maybe I should have said immature. The "child" Jesus mentioned was meek and teachable. That hardly fits your comments.

 

[Deeje]

So you are saying that the Roman Catholicism does pagan worship. How about those men after Paul, the Apostle, the early church fathers who followed the footstep of the gospel of Christ? Do you think that there is one who is alive then to propagate the gospel?

Those raised in the Catholic church have no idea how far they have strayed from what Christ taught. The Jews in Jesus day didn't realize how far Judaism had strayed from the form of worship instituted through Moses either. When Jesus came to seek out "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" most of the nation rejected him, because of adhering to their old comfortable ways. Those satisfied with that apostate system of worship, (that had replaced the original) did not come to Christ. They were among those who cried out for Jesus' blood. (Matthew 27:25)

If Christ returned today, and did not support the current system of Christian worship, they would execute him all over again!

The early Church followed the example of their ancient Jewish counterparts, which is what Jesus and his apostles had foretold. Apostates began to infiltrate the church towards the end of the first century, but because the apostles were acting as a 'restraint' until the writing of the Christian scriptures was complete, they did not fully succeed. (2 Thess 2:6, 7)

After the last apostle (John) died, the apostasy gained momentum. Following the Jewish example, humans are inclined to follow other humans with a good argument. The Christian faith was so weakened by these apostates posing as Christian leaders that by the time of Constantine the situation was ripe for the introduction of Roman Catholicism. This "universal" religion was declared to be the only religion of the Roman Empire by an Emperor who himself never became a Christian. He was a worshipper of Zeus till the day he died. When you see some Catholic images of Jesus, he looks remarkably like Zeus.

Constantine's whole agenda in reforming the religion of Rome was not to follow Christianity, but to unite his divided empire by blending the two belief systems that were causing division. Pagan Roman sun worship is as visible in Roman Catholicism today as it was then.

In the following images you can see the strong influence of pagan worship under the guise of Christianity.
Images of the sun...the mitre worn by the Pope....the shape of the wafer....the Babylonian sun wheel in St Peter's square along with the pagan obelisk....Catholic symbolism, etc.
A Google search will give you more if you want to research this for yourself.

Unless you knew what you were looking at, it would probably not be even noticeable.

As Jesus said, the "wheat" were still in existence all this time, but almost choked out by the "weeds" and the power they exerted over the ruling powers of the day. Many from among those early church members were likely of the elect but they would not be identified by their compliance with church skullduggery, but railing against it. The true Christian martyrs are those put to death by the church itself as "heretics".

 

[savagewind]

What I mean is it is a fact that Jehovah's Witnesses view themselves .as having no beam in their eyes because their self-appointed job is to take specks out of people's eyes. Or maybe they try to take beams out, not something Jesus ever commanded.

So, do they obey Jesus' commands or not?

 

[savagewind]

If Christ returned today, and did not support the current system of Christian worship, they would execute him all over again!

I have asked Jehovah's Witnesses this before and they won't answer me. If Christ returned today, and did not support the teaching of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses would you try to convert him? Like, kill who he is to be making him into something you think he should be?

You DO know baptism means to die to self and to be born to God. Isn't that right?

Would you baptize him?

 

[savagewind]

 

[savagewind]

The JWs DO have a Bible with words added for changing the meaning so the Watchtower which teaches everything from the Bible DOES LIE

@Deeje