Do Believers want Hell to exist?

[Godobeyer]

There is no problem for me. You asked why I compared us to God.

No it is not. God will fix whatever is wrong with us. No vengeance. No justice. God is better and more powerful than we are.
"My ways are not your ways" is what God said. I don't believe everything people claim that God said. But I do believe that His Ways are beyond our comprehension. So I don't believe everything that religious people claim God says, especially not when it doesn't make sense.

In a very important way I am not.
I cannot believe illogical things like hell. So I cannot believe people who tell me about God and Hell, because I cannot believe in an illogical God.
Even if it is true.
I am not capable of believing in Islam or Christianity. I cannot do that any more than I can believe in fairies or Santa Claus.
Tom

You free my friend, that's up to you to believe whatever you want.
So you believe in God ?
I don't believe that Allah created us for no reason,just to eat and play ...etc,and He will not jugde us.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

No all Christian churches have paid pastors...

Are you sure?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Are you sure?

We don't....all of our teachers, and those with responsibilities in our religion -- myself included -- get no salary. Jesus said "you received free, give free." Even for weddings or funerals, our brothers and sisters get free use of the Hall, and no fee is charged by the brothers giving the talks. It is all free!

 

[idea]

Are you sure?

positive. At my church we take turns giving talks - it's not a pastor, it's just people in the congregation. We also all have volunteer jobs that we rotate through, from cleaning up the building (that is paid for by the congregation), to teaching the different children's classes to service work for members in need. No one gets paid - it's all volunteer.

 

[Bird123]

Holy Quran is not written by Prophet Muhammad( pbuh )

Check out
http://www.whyislam.org/the-origin-of-the-quran/#

It's not written by God either.

 

[idea]

Understanding the Scriptures this way, leaves too many questions concerning other passages.

For instance, where was Lazarus for the 4 days between his death and his resurrection by Jesus? Jesus said that Lazarus was "sleeping". - John 11:11-14. This agrees with Acts of the Apostles 7:60 & Ecclesiastes 9:5.

I've gotta go. I'll finish this later.

https://www.lds.org/bible-videos/videos/lazarus-is-raised-from-the-dead?lang=eng

sleep?
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed...

I think 1 Cor15 really does explain it well.

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body....

 

[Bird123]

From the looks of it, some don't really wanna fix anything or want to use the intelligent half at all. Those require a hand of steel which is Hell, I believe. Otherwise, why would they be left doing whatever they want, we fell victims to their fun, and they just get away with it? I believe that would be not fair, not Hell for them.

Everybody changes in time. Instead of a steel hand, perhaps it would be better to simply out think them. Isn't that what is happening now instead for frying the kiddies?

 

[Bird123]

I was just joking.

Oh yes, I know that. Perhaps I am saying we should make the people we can't stand the most our best friend. What better way to grow than to find someone at the opposite end. Maybe that is why opposites attract. Never a dull moment then.

 

[Bird123]

How about
/non-believers don't want Hell to exist, to avoid taking responsibility for their actions

Many people do not take responsibility for their actions. That does not matter in the big scheme of things. Our actions are coming back regardless of how we feel. Causality

You are right. I'm sure in some people's minds that is the reason they don't want Hell to exist. For the rational, thinking, analyzing person, Hell just does not add up other than wanting revenge or for intimidation. When one wants revenge, don't they usually want it for eternity? Hmm? Just like Hell.

 

[Bird123]

I don't understand your point here. to compare Allah to human.

I can't believe if someone kill your daughter , you will not looking for vengeance,catch him and put him in jail.

Judgment Day is full justice.

Is vengeance right regardless of the excuse? If someone killed my daughter, I would want him caught and jail to protect others from becoming a victim

Unconditional Love does what is best for the other. Instead of punishment, I would work at fixing the underlying problems. If society would work on fixing the problems rather than mere punishment, I believe crime would drop dramatically. Discover the causes then work on the cures.

What are the results of the hate and vengeance kept in one's heart? Misery at best.

God has to be smarter, wiser, and at a much higher level than that.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Everybody changes in time. Instead of a steel hand, perhaps it would be better to simply out think them. Isn't that what is happening now instead for frying the kiddies?

Frying the kiddies (dunno what that means really ) sound like something to happen in this life, not the after life. Hell is a final punishment after everything is over and all chances/opportunities are given already. I agree with your approach of out thinking them, but still, will that work? Their should always be a contingency plan. If your approach works, then naturally whom it works with, will not deserve going to Hell. But I don't believe is will work with everyone. Human monsters with always be there, and there will always be who deserves Hell, I believe.

 

[Godobeyer]

Is vengeance right regardless of the excuse? If someone killed my daughter, I would want him caught and jail to protect others from becoming a victim

Unconditional Love does what is best for the other. Instead of punishment, I would work at fixing the underlying problems. If society would work on fixing the problems rather than mere punishment, I believe crime would drop dramatically. Discover the causes then work on the cures.

What are the results of the hate and vengeance kept in one's heart? Misery at best.

God has to be smarter, wiser, and at a much higher level than that.

The justice is,when giving back the rights to victims.

The victims had two choices 1- forgive 2-(take back his rights) vengeance.

You can't force someone to forgive/love person kill his kids or wife...etc cause "unconditional love", its up to him to forgive or not.

In Islam Allah ask us to forgive,but it choice not obligational.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

https://www.lds.org/bible-videos/videos/lazarus-is-raised-from-the-dead?lang=eng

sleep?
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed...

I think 1 Cor15 really does explain it well.

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body....

But it is not immediately at death. Otherwise, how could they be asleep?

Plus, there are different resurrections....one is earlier (Philippians 3:11); -- this must mean there is a later one (Revelation 20:5). And Hebrews 11:35 speaks of a better resurrection. In what way?

You know, really, if the dead are alive somewhere, there's no need for a Resurrection....the Greek term resurrection means 'stand back to life". How can this happen, if they already are alive?

No, the dead are sleeping, until the resurrection comes!

 

[idea]

But it is not immediately at death. Otherwise, how could they be asleep?

Plus, there are different resurrections....one is earlier (Philippians 3:11); -- this must mean there is a later one (Revelation 20:5). And Hebrews 11:35 speaks of a better resurrection. In what way?

You know, really, if the dead are alive somewhere, there's no need for a Resurrection....the Greek term resurrection means 'stand back to life". How can this happen, if they already are alive?

No, the dead are sleeping, until the resurrection comes!

Yes, because of the Fall of Adam and Eve, we are all subject to physical death, which is the separation of the spirit from the body. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected and saved from physical death (see 1 Corinthians 15:22). Resurrection is the reuniting of the spirit with the body in an immortal state, no longer subject to disease or death.The Savior was the first person on this earth to be resurrected and explains what it entails. (see Matthew 28:1-8; Mark 16:1-14; Luke 24:1-48; John 20:1-29; 1 Corinthians 15:1-8; 2 Peter 1:16-17).When the resurrected Lord appeared to His Apostles, He helped them understand that He had a body of flesh and bones. He said, “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have” (Luke 24:39) The resurrection is the reunion of spirit and flesh. At the time of the resurrection, we will be judged according to our works. … We shall be brought to stand before God, knowing even as we know now, and have a bright recollection of all our guilt. The eternal glory we receive will depend on our faithfulness. The spirits of those who did not have the opportunity to come to a knowledge of Christ in their mortal life will be taught what they need to know in the spirit world between death and resurrection. The spirits who did come to a knowledge of Christ in this life will be able to rest in a state of paradise while they wait for their resurrection. Although all people will be resurrected, only those who - in mortality or in the spirit world - have come unto Christ and partaken of the fullness of His gospel will inherit exaltation.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

We don't....all of our teachers, and those with responsibilities in our religion -- myself included -- get no salary. Jesus said "you received free, give free." Even for weddings or funerals, our brothers and sisters get free use of the Hall, and no fee is charged by the brothers giving the talks. It is all free!

I see but now a days everything has to do with money.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

positive. At my church we take turns giving talks - it's not a pastor, it's just people in the congregation. We also all have volunteer jobs that we rotate through, from cleaning up the building (that is paid for by the congregation), to teaching the different children's classes to service work for members in need. No one gets paid - it's all volunteer.

Sounds quite interesting.

 

[viole]

I have mixed thoughts on believing in hell's existence, but seeing that I follow Christianity, on some level, perhaps another plain exists, and it's just an eternal separation from God. Not necessarily a scary, fiery pit...but just an eternal ''home'' where our soul is in despair, because we will no longer be with God. I don't know if it makes a difference to my faith, though. There are many believers who seem to only believe out of fear, and that to me, would be a worse existence than hell itself, should it exist.

Since I am not with God today and that does not seem to cause any inconveniences, I suspect I will not be so desperate. At least I can have nice discussions with Einstein and Plato. i expect that conversing with them will be more interesting than conversing with Mother Teresa or shiloh

Ciao

- viole

 

[idea]

Sounds quite interesting.

It is. Seems like it would be pretty boring to hear from the same person week after week. Most people get all shy and embarrassed when it's their turn to give a talk, but the most spiritually uplifting sermons I have ever heard did not come from anyone with theology degrees - they came from people in our congregation explaining how they made it through losing a child / being out of work / going through a divorce etc. Nothing fake or "get what you paid for" about it. Just real people sharing their thoughts. That is how Jesus did it right? fishermen etc.... just people gathering together on hillsides. It was the Sadducees and Pharisees who had theology degrees and were paid for their work...

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I see but now a days everything has to do with money.

Was Jesus? No. (Luke 9:58)

Although it takes money to organize and maintain anything in this world, money shouldn't be a very important concern for those imitating Christ.

Even our literature is provided at no cost, though we do accept donations. As Jesus did, putting Judas Iscariot in charge of the money box.

BTW, I'm a JW.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

Although it takes money to organize and maintain anything in this world, money shouldn't be a very important concern for those imitating Christ.

Don't christians usually say that "money is the root of evil"?