How does Feminism view Men?

[Kilgore Trout]

This is because there is no single "feminism".

Sounds like rape culture talking again. Get your patriarchy out of my vagina.

 

[Revoltingest]

At least modern man is civilized to the point of taking off his shoes for sex.
Feminists' opinion of us is improving...woo hoo!

 

[Revoltingest]

Get your patriarchy out of my vagina.

I wondered where I left it!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I think they underestimate our ability to locate where the blowhole actually is.

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

They are oppressors as a class.
But according to some here all 2nd wave feminists including myself aren't real feminists for basing their theories and activism around this, interesting.

No, it's the rigid sexual morality, patronizing view of sex workers, aversion to intersectionality, obsession with the reproductive system and frequent transphobia that turns me off second wave feminism. And before anyone gets the wrong idea, I am a feminist, and staunchly third wave.

 

[Horrorble]

No, it's the rigid sexual morality, patronizing view of sex workers, aversion to intersectionality, obsession with the reproductive system and frequent transphobia that turns me off second wave feminism. And before anyone gets the wrong idea, I am a feminist, and staunchly third wave.

Did I mention anything about being "turned off?"

 

[Horrorble]

Oh right you're male,the third wavers can have you. You're not of my interest

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

Oh right you're male,the third wavers can have you. You're not of my interest

Heh, was kind of expecting this response. Not wanting men to be feminists kinda strikes me as encouraging men to be openly sexist, but w/e.

If you haven't blocked me, I'm curious where gay males as well as trans people of all genders and orientations fit into your political analysis/worldview.

 

[Revoltingest]

Heh, was kind of expecting this response. Not wanting men to be feminists kinda strikes me as encouraging men to be openly sexist, but w/e.

If you haven't blocked me, I'm curious where gay males as well as trans people of all genders and orientations fit into your political analysis/worldview.

It's interesting how many ways there are to view feminism.
It seems the most common is numerical, eg, 2nd wave, 3rd, wave.
I see it so much differently, eg, libertarian feminism, liberal feminism, anarchist feminism, cultural
feminism, separatist feminism, pragmatic feminism, misandrist feminism. 3rd world feminism
Btw, this isn't criticism or anything to debate....just a different perspective.

 

[Horrorble]

Heh, was kind of expecting this response. Not wanting men to be feminists kinda strikes me as encouraging men to be openly sexist, but w/e.

and I find it equaliy predictable that you would think women are responsible for misogyny by wanting our own spaces and wanting to remain leaders in our own movements.
But it's a common occurance for the third wave to priortise male sensisbilities over actual women.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

and I find it equaliy predictable that you would think women are responsible for misogyny by wanting our own spaces and wanting to remain leaders in our own movements.
But it's a common occurance for the third wave to priortise male sensisbilities over actual women.

I think that's part of the dilemma of feminism in a world that actually does prioritize the dominant class of sensibilities over actual people. Men shouldn't be too upset. White people shouldn't get too upset. Straight people shouldn't get too upset. And worst of all, none of these people should feel "left out."

Funny thing. Our feminist group has roughly 1,000 men and women in it working in various campaigns. For a while there, we were meeting and started making sure that men were feeling heard and could be co-leaders in the group. Next thing you know, me and the other co-founder (a female) looked around and saw that we were the only women and were surrounded by a group of very opinionated men.

That was a glaring red flag. But outsiders thought we were doing the best work because a feminist group had a majority male administration. We both turned to each other after getting message after message from women who told us they don't feel welcome at meetings anymore and could never get a word in edgewise with all the opinions being heard by male administrators, and decided things needed to change.

And see, it's tough for everybody to break a habit. Habitually, men's voices dominate public and private spheres. It isn't typical to be in a space where women's voices are the dominating and decision-making voices. Oh sure, we all can think of a few spaces where women dominate (my profession is one). But it isn't as habitual as male presence.

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

and I find it equaliy predictable that you would think women are responsible for misogyny by wanting our own spaces and wanting to remain leaders in our own movements.
But it's a common occurance for the third wave to priortise male sensisbilities over actual women.

No, men are responsible for misogyny. But I'm just saying that it's better to encourage men to unlearn misogyny than consigning them to it. I also never said anything opposing the existence of women's spaces, as long as they're not defined in a transphobic manner. But my perspective is that regardless of gender, one either supports patriarchy or opposes it. I oppose patriarchy, and as such, I identify as a feminist.

 

[Horrorble]

No, men are responsible for misogyny. But I'm just saying that it's better to encourage men to unlearn misogyny than consigning them to it

Is it? Wow, thanks for suggesting a strategy I've never in my life considered before. I guess if men want high fives and gold stars and more room to dominate feminism in what best serves their willy during their "progress" of unlearning sexism they can go to the third wave for that.
My priority is supporting and encouraging other women. Where I direct my energy and emotional labour is my heart my mind and my purpose (I'm still working on it btw)

 

[Akivah]

It's interesting how many ways there are to view feminism.
It seems the most common is numerical, eg, 2nd wave, 3rd, wave.
I see it so much differently, eg, libertarian feminism, liberal feminism, anarchist feminism, cultural
feminism, separatist feminism, pragmatic feminism, misandrist feminism. 3rd world feminism
Btw, this isn't criticism or anything to debate....just a different perspective.

That's a good idea. The numbering system doesn't provide a specific meaning. You'd have to know the code. Whereas the specific label provides at least a clue to the meaning.

 

[Akivah]

Funny thing. Our feminist group has roughly 1,000 men and women in it working in various campaigns. For a while there, we were meeting and started making sure that men were feeling heard and could be co-leaders in the group. Next thing you know, me and the other co-founder (a female) looked around and saw that we were the only women and were surrounded by a group of very opinionated men.

That was a glaring red flag. But outsiders thought we were doing the best work because a feminist group had a majority male administration. We both turned to each other after getting message after message from women who told us they don't feel welcome at meetings anymore and could never get a word in edgewise with all the opinions being heard by male administrators, and decided things needed to change.

And see, it's tough for everybody to break a habit. Habitually, men's voices dominate public and private spheres. It isn't typical to be in a space where women's voices are the dominating and decision-making voices. Oh sure, we all can think of a few spaces where women dominate (my profession is one). But it isn't as habitual as male presence.

That is freaky. A group dedicated to women in which the leaders become mostly men?! What do you see as the solution: banning males from leadership positions, teaching women to dominate, teaching women to project their voices, or what?

 

[Revoltingest]

That's a good idea. The numbering system doesn't provide a specific meaning. You'd have to know the code. Whereas the specific label provides at least a clue to the meaning.

Aye, it's a history-centric perspective which is inscrutable to those of us not steeped in its evolution.
Moreover, it obscures much of the variety within "feminism".
By their reckoning, I'm not a feminist, even though I fit the "libertarian feminist" label.

 

[Curious George]

Oh right you're male,the third wavers can have you. You're not of my interest

Smh. I suppose you think there was ever a time when men were not involved in feminism. When you strive to marginalize a voice based on gender, perhaps you should make sure your reasoning is valid. Due to our present society this is certainly one way of addressing problems. But the semantic game you are playing with the word "feminism" here does not rise to such circumstances. Space to be heard, yeah that's warranted. Female leadership, yeah that's needed. An individual identity, well-that's just silly. Before you go playing no true Scotsman in hopes of making some political statement, consider that it is possible to have what you really want and be internally consistent as well.

 

[Curious George]

That is freaky. A group dedicated to women in which the leaders become mostly men?! What do you see as the solution: banning males from leadership positions, teaching women to dominate, teaching women to project their voices, or what?

Ideally, if a man had to step into a leadership roll in a feminist organization, that man would be searching out and recruiting qualified women to take his place or mentoring a woman so she could take over the leadership position. It is silly to believe one cannot be replaced, and there are plenty of leadership roles in other organizations (even organizations with complimentary goals), if one is really interested in leadership or administration. It is important to note that one's role in an organization is often not the same as one's role as an individual who identifies with an ideology. Hopefully, that makes sense.

 

[Horrorble]

Before you go playing no true Scotsman in hopes of making some political statement, consider that it is possible to have what you really want and be internally consistent as well.

Erm...
not that same thing!
As....
Erasuring a whole era of feminism and feminist theory via sly implication that those female feminist theorists were a tiny non-influential minority, through likes and comments, which I've witnessed several times on this forum in order to protect male sensibilities and third wave male allies over and above a long history in feminism and those women who were apart of it.

So that guy''s personal opinion on the second wave,that I do not care for, had nothing to do with the context of this thread or what I was addressing, that being men as oppressors as a class.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Oh right you're male,the third wavers can have you. You're not of my interest

It was this sort of attitude that made the 3rd wave come around in the first place. It's that kind of attitude that made black women give up on feminism and start womanism (that's why it's often referred to as "white women's feminism"). They also made pariahs out of trans women.