Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Does your religion treat everyone equally, or is there any form of discrimination based on race, gender or sexual orientation?
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Does your religion treat everyone equally?
- Thread starter Rick O'Shez
- Start date
mindlight
See in the dark
In the Christian religion all humans are all created in the image of God with the dignity that comes from that association, we are all equally in need of salvation and can all potentially be saved by Christ, we all share the opportunity of an eternal future with God.
Anybody regardless of their race, gender or sexuality are human beings with equality of dignity, need of salvation and eschatological potential.
Equality does not have to imply equality of outcome of income or whatever regardless of personal merit or effort for instance.
Not all choices of sexual lifestyle are equally commendable but whether or not the law or state authorities should enforce or affirm the differentiation between commendable and sinful is also a matter of discussion.
My religion treat everyone equally there is no form of based on race , there is some different in duty/rights between gender depend the case , don't allow relation of same sex (gender) .
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
Yes. Sin does not exist in my religion. As long as you do not hurt others, you're good.
Taylor Seraphim
Angel of Reason
Taylor Seraphim
Angel of Reason
In other words, it is not equal in terms of sexual orientation.
mindlight
See in the dark
Since a human being is not ultimately defined in terms of their sexuality but rather in terms of their relationship to God that does not make gay and heterosexual people unequal. But there is no equivalence between righteousness and sin.
Taylor Seraphim
Angel of Reason
According to whom?
Yourself?
A human is defined as everything they are: Religion and sexuality both.
If you have a problem with someone's sexuality you have a problem with them.
The institution doesn't, unfortunately. Hopefully that will change because there is a lot of anger at the hierarchy about that and other things.
I was just thinking that no one would have enough courage or honesty to post saying that the religion they followed was less than perfect. And then you went and did this.
Well done.
By it's teaching, my faith is SUPPOSED to treat everyone equally. People adapt things, however, to suit their own agendas.
Thanks. That's kind of you. I was actually expecting to get jumped on by people saying stuff like "why do you support such a bigoted institution?!" Etc.
Modern Heathenry is still too young, I think, to really have enough life of its own to say whether "it" treats anybody any one way or the other. It really depends on the type of Heathenry, and the individual or group we're talking about.
As a result, the answer isn't a simple "yes" or "no". It's more complicated than that.
The form I follow is revivalist, so many of its elements are my own (what we call UPG, or "Unverified Personal Gnosis"). As a result, the answer is a resounding NO. I try to make no such discriminations, correct myself when I slip up, and only associate myself with Heathens who do likewise.
However, there is a very large presence within Heathenry that does make such discriminations. Even outside the obvious ones (such as the subtly racist Folkist, and VERY racist white supremacist/Neo-Nazi, Heathens), there's a lot of ableism in Heathenry (and, sadly, in wider Neopaganism as a whole); that is, discrimination based on physical and/or mental disabilities, and neurodivergence. That partially comes from something called the Nine Noble Virtues, which were put together in the 70s, one of which is "Self-Reliance". You can probably see how that would lead to ableist attitudes. (And it's worth noting that the two most common variants were put together by John Yeowell and John Gibbs-Bailey of the Odinic Rite, and Stephen McNallen who is currently head of the Asatru Folk Assembly: both organizations have a reputation for being quite racist).
I just don't bother with the NNV. As far as I, and many other Heathens, are concerned, they're existence is effectively an artifact from Christianity and the Ten Commandments. That is, the idea that you can sum up a religion's ethical outlook with a "list".
Historically speaking, there was certainly discrimination based on gender and sexual orientation among historical pre-Christian Norse (though the degree probably varied)... sort of. Homosexuality was looked down upon as ergi (or "unmanly", which was the Old Norse equivalent of p****; seriously, Norse laws actually said that if you called someone that, they were legally free, and socially obligated, to prove you wrong by killing you), but only for the recipient. The "giver" in a homosexual encounter would be hailed. This also implies a fair amount of gender discrimination, even though women were definitely better off than in Greece or Rome.
Whether there was racial discrimination is kind of impossible to say, because that would require the concept of "race" to even exist, which I don't think it did in the modern sense, yet. But there certainly would have been tribalist discrimination, which I guess would have been their equivalent.
I hope it goes without saying, but just in case, I do not intend to revive those aspects. Heck, I label myself as a PROUD Ergi.
(Granted I've never had sex with another biosex male, and never intend to, but I'm definitely "unmanly" in terms of our culture's definitions.)
Good point. There is nothing in scripture that discriminates between straight and homosexual people as such in Christianity. What it does differentiate between is the practices of both of these groups. There is sexual misconduct that pertains to both that is unacceptable to the Creator.
Exactly. A righteous person does not practice what God condemns, no matter what their sexual orientation is. Sin is sin no matter who commits it.
Erebus
Well-Known Member
Well, this is going to sound a bit harsh at first, but my religion is an extension of my own beliefs and I don't consider everybody to be equal.
Judging a person's value is a subjective affair to be sure, but I value some people more than others. How else are you going to choose your friends? I also consider some people to be worth more than others. Again, it's subjective, but I consider intellect to be more worthy a characteristic than wealth. For that reason (among others) I consider Stephen Hawking a generally better person than Donald Trump.
Alright, alright, I'll stop being pedantic about the "treat everyone equally" thing. My religion is an extension of my own beliefs and I consider discrimination based on race, gender and sexual orientation to be utterly stupid.
I find the framing of this question odd on multiple levels. I'd reframe it to:
- Does practicing your religion encourage treating all humans with dignity and respect?
- Does practicing your religion encourage treating all things, whether human or not, with dignity and respect?
In theory it is supposed to treat all as equal, as all people are the same in God's eyes.
Unfortunately however with the evolution of sexual politics some people of faith do treat women as inferior in some cases, with "scriptural backing." The same can be said for discriminating homosexuals. Officially (well as official as you can get anyway) it's neither condemned nor condoned. It's sort of viewed as something that exists, with a shrug and a "meh." But people have an uncanny knack for finding religious justification for their own biases. The treatment of transsexuals are the same. Officially it's the "third sex" something that God has created and so should be respected as such. But even still people find justification in religion to treat their brethren as subhuman.
Unfortunately however with the evolution of sexual politics some people of faith do treat women as inferior in some cases, with "scriptural backing." The same can be said for discriminating homosexuals. Officially (well as official as you can get anyway) it's neither condemned nor condoned. It's sort of viewed as something that exists, with a shrug and a "meh." But people have an uncanny knack for finding religious justification for their own biases. The treatment of transsexuals are the same. Officially it's the "third sex" something that God has created and so should be respected as such. But even still people find justification in religion to treat their brethren as subhuman.
Satyamavejayanti
Well-Known Member
Namaste,
From my (Hindu) perspective, the way to treat any living creature is by first and foremost having the attitude of Ahimsa (Minimum Harm) and Satya (Truthfulness/Honesty) toward them, this is the highest Dharmah advised. In Hinduism the advise is also to have a discriminating mind (Viveka), this is required to know the subtle difference between Dharmah and Adharmah which is contextual. So a person is viewed according to their Karma (actions) which through Viveka we can determines if the Karm is Dharmic or Adharmic, this requires one to take into consideration of time, place and situation or any other influential contexts. How one treats a person whose Karm is Dharmic or Adharmic is again left up to the individual, because how we treat others is our Karma also therefore we must always be conscious of our Karm.
The advise then is to "discriminate (Viveka) based on Karma/Dharmah/Adharmah guided by Ahimsa and Satya" but not to then cause any Himsa or actions that can be considered Adharmah - which would then render our "Treatment" of others, as hypocrisy.
How one treats another is based largely on how well one understands Dharmah and Adharmah, and there is plenty of texts and cultural and traditional practices that convey the essence of Dharmah to everyday people.
I think that Jesus treated everyone equally, He just tried to steer them into better directions if they were in sin. But, He loved everyone, treated everyone with intrinsic value and equity. But, the followers of Christianity...that's another story. Many don't treat people equally, and unfortunately, the religion gets blamed for their shortcomings. :/