Israel and the Qur'an

[Tumah]

Hello,
It's recently come to my attention, that the land of Israel is actually mentioned in the Qur'an in connection with the Jews. And that historically, there have been a number of important Mulsims, who have understood this to be true as well.

And We said after Pharaoh to the Children of Israel, "Dwell in the land, and when there comes the promise of the Hereafter, We will bring you forth in [one] gathering.

O my people, enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you and do not turn back [from fighting in Allah 's cause] and [thus] become losers."

Since I am not at all familiar with the Qur'an nor with Arabic, I was wondering if there might be some Arabic readers out there who might be able to tell me if there are any other verses in Qur'an and Hadith associating the land of Israel with the people of Israel.

Secondly, I was wondering if there is any Qur'anic (or Hadith) justification for being anti-Zionist. Now, I'm not looking for ideological reasoning. I just want to know if Allah (swt) told Muhammad that He intended to permanently take away the land for the Jews at some point and that the umma should ensure that it never returns to them. Thanks for your help and your time.

Regards,

 

[Pastek]

Since I am not at all familiar with the Qur'an nor with Arabic, I was wondering if there might be some Arabic readers out there who might be able to tell me if there are any other verses in Qur'an and Hadith associating the land of Israel with the people of Israel.

Hi


26.52 And We inspired to Moses, "Travel by night with My servants; indeed, you will be pursued."

26.53-54 Then Pharaoh sent among the cities gatherers [And said], "Indeed, those are but a small band,

26.55 And indeed, they are enraging us, And indeed, we are a cautious society... "

26.57-58 So We removed them from gardens and springs -And treasures and honorable station -

26.59 Thus. And We caused to inherit it the Children of Israel.

Secondly, I was wondering if there is any Qur'anic (or Hadith) justification for being anti-Zionist. Now, I'm not looking for ideological reasoning. I just want to know if Allah (swt) told Muhammad that He intended to permanently take away the land for the Jews at some point and that the umma should ensure that it never returns to them. Thanks for your help and your time.

Regards,

Muslims don't believe that the land is forever for the jews, there's no verses supporting it.
The prophet Muhammad (saw) didn't ask muslims to take any land, it was muslims who after his death wanted to spread the religion because they thought it was their duty to deliver the Message (the Quran) to people.
We just see Islam as the last religion, so we believe that the land we took was because God gave it to us.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

That was before the Jews started killing prophets and left the truth by breaking the covenant. Then the wrath of Allah descended upon them. That is because they said with pride " we killed the son of Mary" pbuh and they beheaded John the Baptist and his father without right.

And when prophet Muhammad pbuh came hey said how can we follow an arab?! So arrogance made them flee from the straight path.

 

[Tumah]

Hi


26.52 And We inspired to Moses, "Travel by night with My servants; indeed, you will be pursued."

26.53-54 Then Pharaoh sent among the cities gatherers [And said], "Indeed, those are but a small band,

26.55 And indeed, they are enraging us, And indeed, we are a cautious society... "

26.57-58 So We removed them from gardens and springs -And treasures and honorable station -

26.59 Thus. And We caused to inherit it the Children of Israel.

Thanks for that.

Muslims don't believe that the land is forever for the jews, there's no verses supporting it.
The prophet Muhammad (saw) didn't ask muslims to take any land, it was muslims who after his death wanted to spread the religion because they thought it was their duty to deliver the Message (the Quran) to people.
We just see Islam as the last religion, so we believe that the land we took was because God gave it to us.

Isn't that a rather strong assumption in contradiction to the verse?
You have a verse stating that Allah (swt) gave the land to the Jews.
You don't have any verses saying that He took it away from them.
You don't have any verses saying to go and take it.

So isn't it a bit self-serving to say that Muslims should take the land that Allah (swt) gave to a people, which Allah (swt) didn't say to do?
And also, 17:104 does kind of strongly imply that the time Allah (swt) intended it to be for the Jews has still not ended? I mean, do you believe the Hereafter has already come?

 

[Tumah]

That was before the Jews started killing prophets and left the truth. Then the wrath of Allah descended upon them. That is because they said with pride " we killed the son of Mary" pbuh and they beheaded John the Baptist and his father without a right.

Please provide verse in Qur'an that state that Allah (swt) intended that the Jews no longer deserve the land when they start killing prophets and leaving truth.

There was plenty of time between the time Jesus was killed and the time Muhammad came. If Allah (swt) wanted the Jews to be driven from the land as a response to those actions, why didn't He also mention it to Muhammad?

 

[Pastek]

Isn't that a rather strong assumption in contradiction to the verse?
You have a verse stating that Allah (swt) gave the land to the Jews.

God gave the land to the jews because they were patient and followed during that time Moses, we agree with that.
It was said in the Quran that God is always with the believers as long as they don't go astray and believe in his messengers and Books.
It never said the land was given to them forever, and that if they disobey God will always be with them.
As said Servant of God, jews don't believe in Jesus as the Messiah and some prophets were killed so we can't see how the land should still be to the jews.

You don't have any verses saying that He took it away from them.

I don't remember that.

You don't have any verses saying to go and take it.

No.

So isn't it a bit self-serving to say that Muslims should take the land that Allah (swt) gave to a people, which Allah (swt) didn't say to do?

It was the past. When muslims took the land it was a christian land at that time.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As said Servant of God, jews don't believe in Jesus as the Messiah and some prophets were killed so we can't see how the land should still be to the jews.

So Jews lose legitimacy because we reject Jesus as the Messiah?

 

[Tumah]

God gave the land to the jews because they were patient and followed during that time Moses, we agree with that.
It was said in the Quran that God is always with the believers as long as they don't go astray and believe in his messengers and Books.
It never said the land was given to them forever, and that if they disobey God will always be with them.
As said Servant of God, jews don't believe in Jesus as the Messiah and some prophets were killed so we can't see how the land should still be to the jews.

Well, what about 17:104? The giving of the land doesn't seem to be linked to conditional behavior in that verse and it is given until the Hereafter.

It was the past. When muslims took the land it was a christian land at that time.

That's true. But I would think, that 17:104 would be a reason for Muslims to fight with Jews against invading Christians (like they did during the Crusades). Rather than the opposite that we see today. It seems from this verse like the Muslim should say, "Christian, this is the land that Allah (swt) has given to the Jews until the hereafter. Who has prophesied to you that Allah (swt) has changed his mind in this matter?"

 

[Godobeyer]

Please provide verse in Qur'an that state that Allah (swt) intended that the Jews no longer deserve the land when they start killing prophets and leaving truth.

There was plenty of time between the time Jesus was killed

Hello Tumah

As i know in Torah ,there is some verse tells that Jews killed some prophets !

btw Quran deny that Jesus (pbuh) was killed in the first place, so Jews are not guilty.

 

[Tumah]

Hello Tumah

As i know in Torah ,there is some verse tells that Jews killed some prophets !

btw Quran deny that Jesus (pbuh) was killed in the first place, so Jews are not guilty.

Thank you for that information.

 

[Godobeyer]

So Jews lose legitimacy because we reject Jesus as the Messiah?

Hello friend Jay

btw Jesus (pbuh) never claim that He was God or Savior .

for your question very probably answser is : YES.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

024:055 Shakir
:
Allah has promised to those of you who believe and do good that He will most certainly make them rulers in the earth as He made rulers those before them, and that He will most certainly establish for them their religion which He has chosen for them, and that He will most certainly, after their fear, give them security in exchange; they shall serve Me, not associating aught with Me; and whoever is ungrateful after this, these it is who are the. transgressors.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

So Jews lose legitimacy because we reject Jesus as the Messiah?

Yes true, Jews broke the covenant, killed almost Jesus pbuh, and John the baptist was martyred through beheading.


But believing jews who keep up covenant by believing in all prophets. Palestine belongs to them together with christians and muslims.

 

[Tumah]

024:055 Shakir
:
Allah has promised to those of you who believe and do good that He will most certainly make them rulers in the earth as He made rulers those before them, and that He will most certainly establish for them their religion which He has chosen for them, and that He will most certainly, after their fear, give them security in exchange; they shall serve Me, not associating aught with Me; and whoever is ungrateful after this, these it is who are the. transgressors.

This is a good verse, but I think it is not related. The question is not about who will rule, but who belongs where. It could be that Allah (swt) intends the ummah to rule over Israel while the Jews are living there. This would fulfill both these verse But His original present to the Jews was not made conditional. So it is difficult to understand how you are applying a condition that He did not put.

 

[Pastek]

So Jews lose legitimacy because we reject Jesus as the Messiah?

The land can't be to people who refused God's Messiah, prophet, or Book while we did accepted them.
I've read in the Bible that some jews before prayed other gods and went astray and some of the prophets were angry at them, maybe that's why they lost the land and it was no more legitimate for them -as it was before rejecting Jesus.

Well, what about 17:104? The giving of the land doesn't seem to be linked to conditional behavior in that verse and it is given until the Hereafter.

When the Quran was revealed there was no Israel at that time and the power was took by christians since quite a long time.
We only see it as given to the jews at the time of Moses and that they will come back one day. That's all.

That's true. But I would think, that 17:104 would be a reason for Muslims to fight with Jews against invading Christians (like they did during the Crusades). Rather than the opposite that we see today. It seems from this verse like the Muslim should say, "Christian, this is the land that Allah (swt) has given to the Jews until the hereafter. Who has prophesied to you that Allah (swt) has changed his mind in this matter?"

Like i said for us it's not until the hereafter.

 

[Tumah]

When the Quran was revealed there was no Israel at that time and the power was took by christians since quite a long time.
We only see it as given to the jews at the time of Moses and that they will come back one day. That's all.

Yes, that's true too. But my question is, why doesn't the verses that I've quoted to you make you feel like you need to help return the land to the Jews. I supposed the answer will be related to how you answer the next point.

Like i said for us it's not until the hereafter.

I don't understand what you mean. The verse says until the hereafter according to the translation that I found. What are you saying is wrong?

 

[Pastek]

Yes, that's true too. But my question is, why doesn't the verses that I've quoted to you make you feel like you need to help return the land to the Jews. I supposed the answer will be related to how you answer the next point.

For us that jews and christians live with us in the land is not a problem, but give it to jews when other messengers came and other Books came it's not logic at all.

I don't understand what you mean. The verse says until the hereafter according to the translation that I found. What are you saying is wrong?

No, it says: " And We said after Pharaoh to the Children of Israel, "Dwell in the land, and when there comes the promise of the Hereafter, We will bring you forth in [one] gathering.

That's all. "Dwell in the land", i don't see it's forever, or until the hereafter.

 

[Tumah]

For us that jews and christians live with us in the land is not a problem, but give it to jews when other messengers came and other Books came it's not logic at all.

What does one have to do with the other?
And if its not logical, why didn't Allah (swt) says something to this regard?

No, it says: " And We said after Pharaoh to the Children of Israel, "Dwell in the land, and when there comes the promise of the Hereafter, We will bring you forth in [one] gathering.

That's all. "Dwell in the land", i don't see it's forever, or until the hereafter.

No, I'm talking about the other part. It is basically saying that Allah (swt) said to the Children of Israel to dwell in the land until the promise of the Hereafter. When the Hereafter comes, then the Children of Israel will be brought out of the land, in [one] gathering. But until then, they are meant to have the land.

 

[Pastek]

What does one have to do with the other?
And if its not logical, why didn't Allah (swt) says something to this regard?

Why should God say something about that ?
Muslims took the land after the Revelation, it was no more a jewish land at that time.

No, I'm talking about the other part. It is basically saying that Allah (swt) said to the Children of Israel to dwell in the land until the promise of the Hereafter. When the Hereafter comes, then the Children of Israel will be brought out of the land, in [one] gathering. But until then, they are meant to have the land.

You add the "until". Even in arabic there's no the "until".

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

This is a good verse, but I think it is not related. The question is not about who will rule, but who belongs where. It could be that Allah (swt) intends the ummah to rule over Israel while the Jews are living there. This would fulfill both these verse But His original present to the Jews was not made conditional. So it is difficult to understand how you are applying a condition that He did not put.

Actually no muslim is saying jews cant live there. We believe Palestine is also home to Jews, just like the Modern descendants of Philistines who are now either muslims or christians. It belongs to all three groups.

Fact is jews lived there and continued to live there during the 4 righteous caliphs.



The problem with modern Israel is that they are godless, traitors of the real Israel/Jacob who was a servant and prophet of Allah.


I dont think muslims have any problem to divide the country one for Religious Jews where the land is ruled by Mosaic Law, and muslim land ruled by shariah.
Or if they share a country.


But zionists today are however godless atheists who angers God with their killings and their approval of gay parade in the holy city Jerusalem.