• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Israel and the Qur'an

Tumah

Veteran Member
Why should God say something about that ?
Muslims took the land after the Revelation, it was no more a jewish land at that time.
Let's pretend that you are a prophet:

Allah (swt): My servant, Pastek. I have given the Holy Land to the Children of Israel.
Pastek (pbuh): Allah, may You be glorified and exalted. I am only a speck of dust before Your greatness. Only tell me Alllah, please, if You in Your righteousness have given the Holy Land to the Children of Israel, then, uh, why aren't they there?
Allah (swt): Error 404 File not Found.

You see, if the Qur'an would be quiet about this issue, then there would be no question. We would think, Allah (swt) never gave the Holy Land to the Jews and indeed there is only a minority of Jews there. Everything is fine.
But once the Qur'an says that Allah (swt) gave the Holy Land to the Jews, but we see most of them are not there. So we have to ask ourselves: why doesn't the Qur'an tell us what happened afterwards that caused them to be gone?
So we have a few choices:
1. Maybe they sinned again and Allah (swt) exiled them. This can be, because it happened in the past even according to their Books.
- But this begs the question, why not mention this in the Qur'an like it does many times that the Jews are going to Hell?
2. Maybe another nation sinned against Allah (swt) and stole the land that He gave to the Children of Israel. This can be, because many nations sin (like Pharaoh's people 2:47).
- But this begs the question, why would Allah (swt) not mention such a major sin, the same as He taught us about Pharaoh?
3. The Qur'an is describing Allah's (swt) Will. Allah (swt) wants the Children of Israel in the Holy Land. The fact that they are not there is against Allah's (swt) Will.
- This is the only answer that doesn't leave a question. Allah (swt) only tells us what we have to know. He doesn't want us to guess, He has given us all the information in the Qur'an. If He tells us that He has given the Holy Land to the Children of Israel, and He doesn't tell us that He changed His mind, then it must be that the land is meant for the Children of Israel. Otherwise, we can't know whether the correct answer is 1 and we should keep the Jews off the land, or 2 and we should help the Jews get back the land. Why would Allah (swt) want us to guess?

You add the "until". Even in arabic there's no the "until".
Yes, I know. I was only using it to explain the verse, not to translate it. The verse is saying until when the Jews would be given the land: until the Hereafter.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
That was before the Jews started killing prophets and left the truth by breaking the covenant. Then the wrath of Allah descended upon them. That is because they said with pride " we killed the son of Mary" pbuh and they beheaded John the Baptist and his father without right.

And when prophet Muhammad pbuh came hey said how can we follow an arab?! So arrogance made them flee from the straight path.
What do you mean specifically by "Allah'so wrath"?
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Actually no muslim is saying jews cant live there. We believe Palestine is also home to Jews, just like the Modern descendants of Philistines who are now either muslims or christians. It belongs to all three groups.
Where does it say in the Qur'an that it is given to all three groups? Where does it say in the Qur'an that Allah (swt) gave the land to Philistines? From 2:251. it looks like the opposite.

Fact is jews lived there and continued to live there during the 4 righteous caliphs.



The problem with modern Israel is that they are godless, traitors of the real Israel/Jacob who was a servant and prophet of Allah.

I dont think muslims have any problem to divide the country one for Religious Jews where the land is ruled by Mosaic Law, and muslim land ruled by shariah.
Or if they share a country.


But zionists today are however godless atheists who angers God with their killings and their approval of gay parade in the holy city Jerusalem.[/QUOTE]
I understand, but what I'm saying is, this condition, that the Jews can only keep the land if they remain faithful, is not said by Allah (swt). And He knew when He gave them the land, that the Jews are not good people (2:96, 3:118, etc.). Yet He gave it to them anyway.
 

Pastek

Sunni muslim
But once the Qur'an says that Allah (swt) gave the Holy Land to the Jews, but we see most of them are not there. So we have to ask ourselves: why doesn't the Qur'an tell us what happened afterwards that caused them to be gone?

The Quran is not a Book who will talk about everything, only some important points that we need to know.

So we have a few choices:
1. Maybe they sinned again and Allah (swt) exiled them. This can be, because it happened in the past even according to their Books.
- But this begs the question, why not mention this in the Qur'an like it does many times that the Jews are going to Hell?
2. Maybe another nation sinned against Allah (swt) and stole the land that He gave to the Children of Israel. This can be, because many nations sin (like Pharaoh's people 2:47).
- But this begs the question, why would Allah (swt) not mention such a major sin, the same as He taught us about Pharaoh?
3. The Qur'an is describing Allah's (swt) Will. Allah (swt) wants the Children of Israel in the Holy Land. The fact that they are not there is against Allah's (swt) Will.

That's what you think.
The fact that they are there or not is not the concern of the muslims. God didn't ask us to take the land from the christians and to give it back to you.

It said something about what happened to some jews, but i don't know the tafsir.

If you want to know, here are the verses :


17.2 And We gave Moses the Scripture and made it a guidance for the Children of Israel that you not take other than Me as Disposer of affairs,

17.4 And We conveyed to the Children of Israel in the Scripture that, "You will surely cause corruption on the earth twice, and you will surely reach [a degree of] great haughtiness.

17.5 So when the [time of] promise came for the first of them, We sent against you servants of Ours - those of great military might, and they probed [even] into the homes, and it was a promise fulfilled.

17.6 Then We gave back to you a return victory over them. And We reinforced you with wealth and sons and made you more numerous in manpower

17.7 [And said], "If you do good, you do good for yourselves; and if you do evil, [you do it] to yourselves." Then when the final promise came, [We sent your enemies] to sadden your faces and to enter the temple in Jerusalem*, as they entered it the first time, and to destroy what they had taken over with [total] destruction.

17.8 [Then Allah said], "It is expected, [if you repent], that your Lord will have mercy upon you. But if you return [to sin], We will return [to punishment]. And We have made Hell, for the disbelievers, a prison-bed."


(*In Jerusalem is not in the arabic text)
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
- But this begs the question, why not mention this in the Qur'an like it does many times that the Jews are going to Hell?

NOW for this generation :
Thats depend to God , so God maybe take into account that WE (the Muslims) are bad delivers to His messege in this last 30 years (ISIS,civil wars ...) , So some scholars said may every non-Muslim God will judge him/her for his/her good or bad deeds.and for sure God knows best :)


Accuatly many verses of Quran said God will punish the disbelievers.

3-20
So if they argue with you, say, "I have submitted myself to Allah [in Islam], and [so have] those who follow me." And say to those who were given the Scripture and [to] the unlearned, "Have you submitted yourselves?" And if they submit [in Islam], they are rightly guided; but if they turn away - then upon you is only the [duty of] notification. And Allah is Seeing of [His] servants.

3-21
Those who disbelieve in the signs of Allah and kill the prophets without right and kill those who order justice from among the people - give them tidings of a painful punishment.


If you intersted to know some what Quran tells about Jews , I required to you to read the Surah 3 (called Al-Imran)

Surat 'Ali `Imran - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم
 

muhammad_isa

Well-Known Member
So Jews lose legitimacy because we reject Jesus as the Messiah?

Wouldn't it be better to worry about what will happen to us in the hereafter, rather than fight over 'paradise on earth' ?

Almighty God says to be good to our neighbours .. not drive them away and take over their land!

What's the point in having vast wealth, cattle, land etc, but are bankrupt in our hearts?
It is our hearts that G-d is concerned with .. wealth, family, tribe is but a test for us, albeit it a very BIG test..
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
I don't see why .. your beliefs surely influence how you as a Jew would interpret what the Qur'an has to say on the topic..
The sole belief that would influence how I might interpret the Qur'an is the belief that the Qur'an, much like the Torah, is human authored.
 

Shariq

New Member
Hello,
It's recently come to my attention, that the land of Israel is actually mentioned in the Qur'an in connection with the Jews. And that historically, there have been a number of important Mulsims, who have understood this to be true as well.



Since I am not at all familiar with the Qur'an nor with Arabic, I was wondering if there might be some Arabic readers out there who might be able to tell me if there are any other verses in Qur'an and Hadith associating the land of Israel with the people of Israel.

Secondly, I was wondering if there is any Qur'anic (or Hadith) justification for being anti-Zionist. Now, I'm not looking for ideological reasoning. I just want to know if Allah (swt) told Muhammad that He intended to permanently take away the land for the Jews at some point and that the umma should ensure that it never returns to them. Thanks for your help and your time.

Regards,
Rightly so, the Quran does clearly talk of "Promised Land" assigned by the God for Jewish people. If for the sake of territorial Politics the Muslims are fighting the Jewish to grab their land the onus certainly falls on their shoulder to explain to rest of the world, either they (Muslims) are defying the Quran or that the Promised Land is some where else ? If they are really not defying Quran then they must pin point as to where then the Promised Land of Israel is.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Hello,
It's recently come to my attention, that the land of Israel is actually mentioned in the Qur'an in connection with the Jews. And that historically, there have been a number of important Mulsims, who have understood this to be true as well.

Since I am not at all familiar with the Qur'an nor with Arabic, I was wondering if there might be some Arabic readers out there who might be able to tell me if there are any other verses in Qur'an and Hadith associating the land of Israel with the people of Israel.

The Quran is full with verses speaking of Moses and the sons of Israel. There are many reasons why they are mentioned and this is not the place to explain all of them. I'll only tackle the issue of the holy land. If you read the Quran carfully you will notice that Allah speaks always of the believers whoever they are. Whether they are the sons of Israel or of other nations, Allah rise them only for their faith, not because of their race. There are no racism in Islam and we don't have such a concept as "chosen people". Only when people choose to obey God, then God might choose them.

Therefore, God give lands to the believers, and the sons of Israel were the believers of that time so it's only natural that Allah will order them to go to this land or that land if he want to.

Therefore, the current believers are now the Muslims since--according to Islam--most of Jews refused to accept the Messiah, Jesus, and after him Mohamed. Let's assume also the current believers--Muslims--didn't obey God, then God will give the land to those who believe in him.

I hope this answered your question.

Secondly, I was wondering if there is any Qur'anic (or Hadith) justification for being anti-Zionist. Now, I'm not looking for ideological reasoning. I just want to know if Allah (swt) told Muhammad that He intended to permanently take away the land for the Jews at some point and that the umma should ensure that it never returns to them. Thanks for your help and your time.

Regards,

There was no such thing as "Zionists" when the Quran was revealed. :D

According to the link below, Zionism was founded by Theodor Herzl in 1897. ;)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Zionism

Would you like to re-word your question?

Just so you know, Muslims don't have any grudges against the Jews or any other race for that matter. It just happen that certain incidents happen during the time of Prophet Mohamed which caused Jews to be relocated from Arabia because of them breaking the treaty between them and the Muslims, and conspiring against the Muslims. They have committed treason, by today's political terminology.

When it comes to our modern time, i don't know if you know this or not, but Muslims and Jews were normal citizens living in peace under the Muslim rule of Al-Andalus--Spain and part of Portugal--till they have been expelled by the Christians in the famous incident of history called Reconquista. My ancestors were expelled from there by the way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista#Conversions_and_expulsions

You can also read my own thoughts in this matter, though it's a bit old. I'll quote you part of it:

Islam, which was rising in the East, had a different view of the Jews as it accorded a special status to ‘the People of the Book’ (people who believe in the same God and follow their scriptures which are meant to give them divine guidance to the same eternal truth) and hence deserve to be treated with respect, dignity and religious freedom. The followers of Jesus and Moses were given full religious freedom in the Islamic civilization and their faith and religions were respected. Contrast the above suppression of the Jews and their forcible conversion to Christianity with Abba Eban’s comments on the Jewish life and experience in the Islamic world as he says:

“Above everything else, life under Arab rule offered wide scope for creative spiritual energies. How else can we explain the heights of creative energy, of literacy grace and aesthetic perfection exemplified in the eleventh and twelfth centuries by Solomon ibn Gabriol, Moses ibn Ezra, and Judah Halevi, all in Spain; and in Egypt by Moses ben Maimonides or Ramban-who also was born in Spain. In some places in the Arab empire, the Jews reached spiritual heights they had not scaled under Christian rule in diaspora.”

In the great centers of Islamic civilization it was not just religious freedom and social acceptance but also the opportunities to climb the social ladder that were open to Jews, and they were able to reach high positions, serve society and contribute to solving the problems of their own community and civilization. One such example, among many, is the story of Hasdai ibn Shaprut. Caliph Abd–er–Rahman III of Spain (891-961) appointed Hasdai as Physician in his court. Commenting on the power and position enjoyed by Hasdai in Muslim Spain, Abba Eban writes:

“From the standpoint of Jewish history, however, his most far--reaching act was to elevate Hasdai ibn Shaprut, his court physician, to the office of director of the customs department and to role of trusted adviser and emissary. It was Hasdai who conducted the delicate negotiations that led to the conclusion of peace treaties with Leon and Navarre in the late 950s.

Just as Abd-er-Rahman, in placing himself on par with the caliphs of Damascus and Egypt, established Muslim Spain’s political autonomy, so Hasdai ibn Shaprut, as leader of the Jewish community of Muslim Spain, deliberately sought to end his people’s subservience to Babylon. He named rabbi of Cordoba the learned Moses bin Hanokh (B.C. 965), who headed a yeshiva (rabbinical academy) and wrote responsa, so that Spanish Jews would not have to send to Sura and Pumbeditha for answers to halakhic questions. Hasdai befriended poets and supported scholars. A practicing physician, he also patronized the sciences and other learned professions.

http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...ns-the-star-the-cross-and-the-crescent.67319/

So, this is solid proof from history of the fact that Muslims don't have anything in their creed or tradition which require them to hate any specific people.

Then after that, i don't know how well versed you are with what happened. I'll assume you know the whole Balfour promise thing, then mass migration of Jews to Palestine, taking over from the British through the use of terrorist organizations (Irgun, the Lehi, the Haganah and the Palmach), massacre of the Arabs living there, establishment of Israel, etc.

Any questions? :)
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Hello,
It's recently come to my attention, that the land of Israel is actually mentioned in the Qur'an in connection with the Jews. And that historically, there have been a number of important Mulsims, who have understood this to be true as well.



Since I am not at all familiar with the Qur'an nor with Arabic, I was wondering if there might be some Arabic readers out there who might be able to tell me if there are any other verses in Qur'an and Hadith associating the land of Israel with the people of Israel.

Secondly, I was wondering if there is any Qur'anic (or Hadith) justification for being anti-Zionist. Now, I'm not looking for ideological reasoning. I just want to know if Allah (swt) told Muhammad that He intended to permanently take away the land for the Jews at some point and that the umma should ensure that it never returns to them. Thanks for your help and your time.

Regards,
There has been no allotment made to the Jews, I quote from Quran:
[17:105]And after him We said to the children of Israel, ‘Dwell ye in the land; and whenthe time ofthe promise of the latter days comes, We shall bring you togetherout of various peoples.
The Holy Quran : Chapter 17: Bani Isra'ilبنی اسرائیل

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=17&verse=105
[5:22]‘O my people, enter the Holy Land which Allah has ordained for you and do not turn back, for then you will turn losers.’
[5:23]They said, ‘O Moses, there is in thatlanda haughty and powerful people, and we shall not enter it until they go forth from it. But if they go forth from it, then we will enterit.’
The Holy Quran : Chapter 5: Al-Ma'idahالمَائدة

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=5&verse=12
Regards
 
Top