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I am in desperate need of help...

JeremK

Member
Please, someone help me. I have recently been in an intense internal conflict over whether or not I should be theistic or atheistic.

I am a pansexual male who has OCD and most likely deperession. I used to be extremely religious, but a combination of my sexuality and oppression at church(es) prompted me to leave my faith. While I was very happy when I was religious, I felt irrational and moral-less at times. But, since I felt my faith, I've felt more free and more depressed. When I was religious, I would frequently pray to God to turn me into a heterosexual person, but never saw a change in my sexuality. I am now embracing my sexuality, but frequently wonder if I'm immoral. Right now, I feel like a defective and hopeless abomination.

I have asked both theists and atheists for help, and have gotten panned and insulted by both sides.

I don't know whether or not my sexuality is a choice. I don't know if it's immoral to be LGBT+. I don't know if I'll go to hell by being atheistic, and I don't know if I'm simply digging myself into a hole by being theistic. I need help quickly. If you wish to convert me to either side, please provide me some kind of evidence.
 

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
Please, someone help me. I have recently been in an intense internal conflict over whether or not I should be theistic or atheistic.

I am a pansexual male who has OCD and most likely deperession. I used to be extremely religious, but a combination of my sexuality and oppression at church(es) prompted me to leave my faith. While I was very happy when I was religious, I felt irrational and moral-less at times. But, since I felt my faith, I've felt more free and more depressed. When I was religious, I would frequently pray to God to turn me into a heterosexual person, but never saw a change in my sexuality. I am now embracing my sexuality, but frequently wonder if I'm immoral. Right now, I feel like a defective and hopeless abomination.

I have asked both theists and atheists for help, and have gotten panned and insulted by both sides.

I don't know whether or not my sexuality is a choice. I don't know if it's immoral to be LGBT+. I don't know if I'll go to hell by being atheistic, and I don't know if I'm simply digging myself into a hole by being theistic. I need help quickly. If you wish to convert me to either side, please provide me some kind of evidence.
be an atheist its freeing!
edit: also seek treatment for your mental health issues!!
 

Parsimony

Well-Known Member
When it comes to looking for an answer in regards to religion or God, I would suggest:

1) Learn how to reason rationally, in particular, what forms of reasoning are flawed. This should help: Logical fallacy - RationalWiki
2) Look at evidence and arguments from both the theistic and atheistic side, using your learned rationality to keep the arguments that pass and discard the ones that fail.
3) Investigate claims in depth. Don't accept something as true or false just because someone on the Internet told you so.
4) Do your best to be honest with yourself instead of pushing towards one side or the other for reasons such as comfort, fear or other good or bad consequences. Remember, you are searching for whatever the truth is, not seeking to confirm any personal preferences you may have.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Just acknowledge, realize, and accept you know nothing, quit caring and worrying about religion (atheism and theism), focus on your life, your desires, and release your potential.
 

Baladas

An Págánach
To me, this is more a matter of being honest with yourself.
Look within yourself, and listen to the truth that is there.

This is something that helped me as a former devout Christian of many years:

1. Look at God as described by the Church and the Scriptures. Can you imagine a kinder God? A more loving one? If so, then how can such a being be worthy to be called "God"?
And how can we, as imperfect humans, think up a better God than the real thing?

2. Imagine that you were tasked with the punishment of a moral monster like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, or any number of gruesome serial killers. It's your job to render justice. They cannot die, there is no relief for their suffering. How long do you think that you could torture these cruel people personally? Or even watch their torture? I am willing to bet that most could not witness this for long without calling for it to stop.

The Christian scriptures say that the "Beast" will come and deceive people into worshiping him.
These people who have been duped "..will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” - Revelation 14:10-11

Can you conceive of a God that is more good than this? I could and can.

It's really up to you in the end what you decide. Your life is your journey, not mine.
I only wish you peace.

As someone who has dealt with extreme depression and anxiety over the years, I highly recommend professional treatment. Mental health is just as important and natural as physical health. There is nothing to be ashamed of.

Learn to love yourself. I know that it can be hard.
Accept yourself.

You are who you are, and that really is okay.
 
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Brickjectivity

Two
Staff member
Premium Member
What do you mean that you used to be extremely religious? At what age were you extremely religious, and what did you think about people who weren't extremely religious? Do you know anybody who isn't religious?
 

JeremK

Member
What do you mean that you used to be extremely religious? At what age were you extremely religious, and what did you think about people who weren't extremely religious? Do you know anybody who isn't religious?

I used to read the Bible very frequently and prayed every night and morning. I thought of all non-religious people as sinners who would go to hell. Now, I'm friends with a ton of non-religious people, and think of them as my equals. My religious "phase" occurred during my early teen years.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Please, someone help me. I have recently been in an intense internal conflict over whether or not I should be theistic or atheistic.

I am a pansexual male who has OCD and most likely deperession. I used to be extremely religious, but a combination of my sexuality and oppression at church(es) prompted me to leave my faith. While I was very happy when I was religious, I felt irrational and moral-less at times. But, since I felt my faith, I've felt more free and more depressed. When I was religious, I would frequently pray to God to turn me into a heterosexual person, but never saw a change in my sexuality. I am now embracing my sexuality, but frequently wonder if I'm immoral. Right now, I feel like a defective and hopeless abomination.

I am going to give you a Christian perspective that perhaps you may not have thought about before. I acknowldedge your situation and sympathise with your dilemma. What you are experiencing is a battle between your flesh and your spirit.
A troubled consience is not going to give you the peace you seek. I personally don't think God wants us to be "religious" (as in performing religious rituals etc.) but I do believe that he wants us to be at peace in our relationship with him. You don't sound like you have ever had that.

First and foremost it sounds like help is needed for your mental health issues. Your conflict is just adding to the pressure you are under and rational decisions will elude you unless you have a clear grasp of your options.

Your sexuality is obviously not your choice, but one that is dictated by your genetics. In today's climate, you are not viewed as odd by any means. But your conscience is telling you that your feelings are not what God would approve.
So what to do? If you truly believe in God and you know in your heart of hearts that engaging in any unlawful sexual conduct (gay or straight, outside of Christian marriage) is not going to get you to where you want your future to be, then you must decide what is more important to you.

You already know that ALL sexual conduct is restricted to legal marriage in the Bible. Homosexual marriage is not scripturally legal, so homosexuals cannot form a "marriage" in order to become acceptable in God's eyes. Making same sex marriage legal in the law of the land does not make it "legal" to God.

Ask yourself where you want to be in the future....because your choices will affect where you end up. You have a conscience and becoming an atheist will not make those proddings go away in a hurry. If you feel guilt, it is because your spirit is in conflict with your flesh...so, which is more important to you? Do you believe that this life is all there is? Atheists do and live accordingly. They have no belief in any kind of future life so there are no consequences for their actions, except what happens in the here and now. Can you adopt this thinking? Can you sacrifice the future for the present?

I have asked both theists and atheists for help, and have gotten panned and insulted by both sides.

I see nothing but sincerity in your questions. No one should make you feel pressured to go one way or another merely through guilt or shame. Our choices are ours to make. When we have issues like this, life is hard enough without this added pressure. I can see how badly it is affecting you. Our sexuality is a strong drive. Can it be controlled?

I don't know if it's immoral to be LGBT+.
It is not immoral to be LGBT.....it is the activity associated with the lifestyle that is immoral from God's perspective. We cannot help the way we are born.....not homosexuals, not pedophiles, nor those who have immoral activity associated with any abnormal leaning in their psyche. It comes down to control. It is true that what we feed, grows. If we expose ourselves to the very things that tempt us, what are we doing? It's akin to a diabetic spending his day in a candy store.

The truth is, if we refocus our attention to more moral and altruistic persuits, and less towards the things that tempt the flesh, the better off we will be. What do you want? Is "your will" more important in your life than "God's will"? If you love yourself more than you love God, which do you think will win? We are always going to have a war with our sinful flesh. (Rom 7:14-25) Only God can help us win the war.

I don't know if I'll go to hell by being atheistic,
If it makes you feel any better...there is no such place as hell. God does not punish wilful sinners with anything but death. He has no reason or purpose to torture anyone. He merely withdraws life. Everlasting death is the opposite of everlasting life.

and I don't know if I'm simply digging myself into a hole by being theistic. I need help quickly. If you wish to convert me to either side, please provide me some kind of evidence.

God does not want you to be merely theistic. The Bible says that "even the demons believe" so just believing is not what Christianity is about at all. Jesus taught us how to love one another in the most important way......and how to love the Father and to come into a relationship with him on a personal level. This is how we can overcome the weaknesses of our flesh. God will not make you straight. He never said he would do that any more than he would cure diseases that cause suffering and death in this present world. God's adversary has made accusations against God, that his children would all abandon him if satan was allowed to provide temptations that would lead us away from God's standards of right and wrong. So how is he doing, do you think?

We each have the opportunity, to a greater or lesser extent, in providing an answer back to the devil. (Prov 27:11)
We can show that we will not be overreached by resisting all the temptations that he puts in our path. God has promised to provide what we need to conquer our desires and live a relatively happy life despite the restrictions that living this way might bring. The Christian way is not called the "cramped and narrow road" for nothing. It requires sacrifice...sometimes big ones.

These I believe are your choices. I wish you all the best with your decision.
 

Brickjectivity

Two
Staff member
Premium Member
Jeremy, I understand that background somewhat. First, be an honest person. I mean by that "Don't be evil to people." Secondly, go above and beyond what people consider normal goodness. Go out of your way to help people and to do at least a little bit extra. Love people and work to forgive people who offend you. Anyone who does these things has fulfilled the wishes of Jesus and is doing more than most people called Christians. Your sexual preferences and choices will matter very little whatsoever. Your head knowledge will not really be a problem, and truth will come looking for you instead of running away. It will just form like a crystal around you.

What about atheism? Atheism is not related to faith generally. Its a lack of theological belief, but its not necessarily an unfaithful existence, nor is it 'Unbelief' in a Biblical sense though some traditionalists and fundamentalists may not understand that. It is what is called a 'Liberal Christian' viewpoint, and I think its the most realistic. I think that if you doubt what I am saying, you are welcome to ask me about it. The basics are that belief is really about the same thing as 'Talk', while action is real faith. Names like 'Christian' don't amount to much either practically or in scripture either.

So then there is not really a decision to make about beliefs for you. You are young, and you have a lot of work to do. Beliefs will become clear if you don't get sidetracked into wasting all of your time. I don't mean you have to take on the world. Realistically not many people can completely dedicate themselves to good work at all times, but you can strive to do more good things than usual, to care more than usual and to forgive. All you need to do is slightly more than what you normally would. Be a little nicer. Do something good every day no matter what. Maybe read something or do someone a favor. Do something.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Please, someone help me. I have recently been in an intense internal conflict over whether or not I should be theistic or atheistic.

I am a pansexual male who has OCD and most likely deperession. I used to be extremely religious, but a combination of my sexuality and oppression at church(es) prompted me to leave my faith. While I was very happy when I was religious, I felt irrational and moral-less at times. But, since I felt my faith, I've felt more free and more depressed. When I was religious, I would frequently pray to God to turn me into a heterosexual person, but never saw a change in my sexuality. I am now embracing my sexuality, but frequently wonder if I'm immoral. Right now, I feel like a defective and hopeless abomination.

First of all: accept your sexuality, unless you are actually harming someone by expressing it. Homosexuality, transexuality and pansexuality are fine.

Life is much too short for people to lose any time hoping to be something they just are not. Particularly when there is no actual reason not to accept oneself.


I have asked both theists and atheists for help, and have gotten panned and insulted by both sides.

I don't know whether or not my sexuality is a choice. I don't know if it's immoral to be LGBT+.

It is not. It is a crying shame that you have been taught to hate and/or fear what is natural to you - for no good reason, no less.


I don't know if I'll go to hell by being atheistic, and I don't know if I'm simply digging myself into a hole by being theistic. I need help quickly. If you wish to convert me to either side, please provide me some kind of evidence.

Nah, forget about conversion and forget about evidence. The distinction between atheism and theism is way over-rated.

Just believe in a deity, or do not, as you feel like doing. If it suits you, change your mind on the subject several times a day, as one might switch a favorite color.

If there is such a thing as a god, he surely has better things to do than demand that you feel miserable just for misery's sake.



On a more concrete level, may I suggest that you might benefit from some practice of Zazen, Shamata and/or Vipassana? They are closely related Buddhist meditation practices that involve, in a nutshell, getting used to observe how wild one's thoughts run and how little reason there is be too impressed or too scared of that.

With enough practice in Vipassana or one of its sister techniques (mix and match them if you like, it is fine), odds are good that you will develop some measure of self-acceptance, serenity, and ability to keep you focus on some goal despite distractions.

Accept yourself, pal. Anyone who expects you not to is simply not being reasonable. Keep goals, by all means, and move towards them. But accept yourself as you are in every step of the way. You deserve no less. No one does.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Sometimes I overreact to things. For example, a sequence of events occurred, which would be typical to triggering an overreaction in me for the most minor and silly of things. But only because of my religious background, I DID NOT OVERREACT! To me, religion is a form of “meditation” or “control of the senses” as well as ENJOYING life by way of the Presence Of The Lord, Divine, etc, all about me. Yes, my religion indeed has a lot of ritual, perhaps someone may call that “trappings” – but these all are tools to me, wonderful magic tools that make life fun and always remind me that, no matter what crazy thing happens, I can always enjoy the SIMPLE things (such as going to the temple) and again put my “MIND” (capital M) into “automatic happy” mode and “freedom”. Though the words do not exactly explain the EXPERIENCE.

So let me give the example of what happened today…

Today, I needed to take our sedan into a shop to have struts replaced. Why? Well, my wife really wants us, the entire family, to drive to Vancouver Canada to visit with relatives! I want to offer the others plane tickets to fly there instead, and I would stay home this time. But, she really wanted to drive so that my daughter can enjoy seeing things in Oregon, Washington, and B.C. as part of her “last vacation” before starting school at her University full time. I was finally convinced to say “ok” even though I would have to use up some of my holiday/vacation time and, frankly, I hate the drive because I am an “old lady” when it comes to driving and sort of a slow poke. But I gave in to the “pressure” to go on the LONG drive from California to Canada.

But the car I wanted to take was a bit “bouncy” on the freeway – struts not the best, even though the car isn’t that old. But it does have 80,000 miles on it, and I also wanted to have the breaks checked. All safety measures. I big on safety when I have to drive long distance.

So I had to WORK today, too! But my local mechanic opened at 8am, and he actually was available even before 8am when I called him and he said “come on over right now!”. So I did, he even already gave me the quote over the phone and it was a good deal.

So let me cut to the chase.

I dropped the car off, and told him to give me a call after all four struts/shocks were replaced and to let me know how the brakes looked, I wanted them fixed prior to any long distance drive.

I gave him my cell number to call instead of the regular home phone on record, since I had to leave to for work using my second car. He would call me to let me know if I needed a brake job, I had already ok’d the new struts. My wife picked me up, took me back home, and I left to work in a second car – a bit late now.

I show up to work, and everything is crazy. Nuts.

I was thinking of calling the mechanic around lunch time, but I didn’t, though I was wondering why I didn’t get any call yet. I was thinking, “well, struts probably take all day to put in, and besides it is 102 degrees Fahrenheit today and the mechanic and his assistance must be suffering in the heat… so it is probably an all day job” ….

Then I got into all kinds of crazy stuff at work. I never called. Nor did I get any call. But I left early, about 4pm, thinking he would probably call as I am driving home to let me know that other car was ready and probably didn’t need a brake job but the struts are on.

No call on the way home… Traffic was nuts. Absolutely nuts.

I decide to go directly to the shop when I get into town. So I drive right there, and walk in.

“Well”, says my mechanic, “Mister Missing in Action.”

What? I say… I am confused.

He tells me he called me SIX times, all he got was my wife’s voice mail. I am confused. Firstly, I gave him my cell phone number, not my wife’s. But I show him my phone log, no calls. He says again, no he called six times, and shows me the proof. “I called you at the number you gave me!”, and he shows me. I look, indeed he did. But I am confused. Must be a technical glitch, I say. Again I show my call log. He tells me, “well… I couldn’t get hold of you, hear, listen to the voice mail I was getting” and he plays the recording of the calls he made and the answering machine that answered his calls. It was loud in his front desk, other cars were being worked, but I hear the female voice as part of a recording on the answering machine, and I say, “yup, that’s my wife!” – odd, I say. So I must have given him my wife’s number, I say to him. He says the number out loud… Hmmmm.. that IS my number I say, not my wife's! I tell him I don’t get it.

Then he says, “well… I couldn’t get hold of you, and you needed front brakes, so I just did it. It will cost you $xxx more.” …. I feel sort of funny. But I KNOW I gave him the right cell phone number. What the?

Now, at this juncture, I could have “gone off”. You know, “overreact”. I say to myself, don’t. Just stay “level”. No reason, just sort of meditate right there, right now. I did. I didn’t overreact. Instead, I stayed calm, collected, and even smiled, called him by his first name as I do. He played the voice mail again.

That is when I realized the woman’s voice was some gal I never knew, I don’t know her from a hole in the wall. Then he says the number again, as I am paying the bill.

It was only, probably after the sixth time he told me the phone number, that I realized it was one digit wrong. I gave him the wrong cell number. It was my fault. I told him, and we laughed and I made a joke, “I wonder what that woman is thinking now”. He says, well for sure she never calls back to anyone leaving voice mail.

So that is what religion does for me. It makes me understand, to stay calm. To not overreact. That in MOST cases, and crazy as something seems, it is probably something you did to yourself.

That is WHAT religions means to me. When you "do it like that", everything will be ok.
….

I can give you more stories … like the day BEFORE today. Like yesterday, when I went to my storage unit. Yes, I have one because I have so many religious books, among other things. I have to keep them in a storage unit. But I had to go there after work yesterday, to find, don’t laugh, a VISA card that had arrived in the mail about 9 months ago. When it arrived, my wife opened the envelope in the kitchen and said, your new VISA card has arrived. You need to call number XXX to activate it. I said, “eeeh, just put it away, I never use it, better just put it away someplace, may use it later”. So she did. I didn’t ask where she put it. Then I forgot all about it.

Then a bunch of guests were coming over just recently, related to my daughter’s graduation. I had some books around, papers, work stuff, you know, the slob. I think, “just throw everything in boxes and bring it to the storage unit”.

So I did. That was, I don’t know, a few weeks ago?

Then the other day, before yesterday, I decide, “hey, I will use that credit card to pay for the struts”. Where is the card? – I ask my wife. It is NOT in my wallet! Wait! Did I LOSE it???? Oh, let me check my old wallet (I used cheap material wallets, they break and fall apart). Nope. Uh… let me check the box in the closet, where I throw old junk. Nope. Wait! NOW I remember! I tell my wife, hey, I remember now. Months ago, you showed me the card, and I said “put it away, I never use it but probably will later”. She says, well, if that is so, here is where I would put it. But it isn’t there.

I start to get ready to “overreact”. Did someone steal my VISA card? One of my daughter’s friends? Uh… the guy who put in the new bath and shower? Did my wife “space it out”? Everyone else’s fault, of course.

This goes on for hours…. Looking. Panic attack could start. Does someone have my VISA card? Perhaps some scumbag?

It was the next day, after acting frustrated and sort of bad. Then I remember. Hey – I threw a bunch of stuff in two boxes, and brought those boxes to the storage unit. I bet, as I tell my wife, it is in one of those boxes! But the storage unit place closes at 7pm, sharp. Can’t get in the security gate after 7pm. I look at my watch. I have 15 minutes.

I jump in my car, and drive TOO fast. I get there, about 5 minutes to spare, maybe 7 minutes. I get into the gate. I drive down to the “far end”. My unit is down a “dark hall” (not facing the outside). I turn the “light gizmo” that lights up the unit, one little turn gives you like 15 minutes I think. I get to the locked “swing up” metal gate of my unit, two padlocks, I am fumbling for the two keys, I get the thing open, I look, there are the boxes. I start going through one. No envelope with a VISA card. It is frigging 120 degrees in that metal unit. I think I am going to die. I pull the box out and throw it in the hallway. Next box, no luck, throw it, too. Then the light goes off.

That is when the lady started screaming at me, threatening me.

She was outside the hall, not too far from my parked car, which was unlocked.

She was a maniac. I guess the “homeless” druggie types get into the complex to sleep or something. It is now 720pm, the place is closed, I wonder if I can get out? She is now screaming at me, “You ******ing dumb ****, DIE you! DIE! You f******** dumb ***” !!!!' yadda, she is screaming and it doesn’t sound very good.

I start to say, “Just shut this unit up, and get out of here”… But the friggin’ gate, I keep sliding it back down after throwing two of the boxes back in, keeping one in the hall that I will check at home, the lady is screaming – I cannot get the frigging “gate” to my unit down correctly to slide the latch to put on the two padlocks! This has never happened before. She is louder now. I have my knife. I always carry a knife. Yes, I am a killer if it comes down to that.

Should I stab her? If she comes at me?

I finally, in a panic, get the friggin’ gate down and locked. She is going beserk.

I pick up the box, and start down the dark hall to the light.

She will be waiting there.

I step into the light. My God. There she is. Friggin’s tall one but skinny, skinny arms. Her hair is ALL WHITE and long. She looks like a druggie witch or something. And she is insane like nobody’s business.

I look left. Thank God! There is a TRUCK outside about six outward facing units away! He is a cowboy type, no nonsense. She starts to go after both of us. I remain calm. If I stab her, I figure I will just get myself in trouble. I do NOT overreact. The cowboy tells her to get lost, as she starts screaming at him.

I put the box in my car. I start it up. I have to turn it around. But to do so, I have to drive ALL the way to the end and turn it around in the wider area next to the garbage bin. Then come back – TOWARDS HER.

The cowboy is in his truck. Waiting, I guess? I come slowly. There she is. I give her a smile and a wave.

She looks like she just saw a ghost.

I get past, and out, by way of the front gate, entering the “secret code”. I get home. Yup, there was the VISA card. It was all my fault.

Thank God, I am religious. Meditatively, that is. I didn’t stab anyone. I didn’t overreact.

That is one advantage… to being religious. So give it another try… but use a different approach to WHY you are doing it. Think of it like the “little pink pill”.
 
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arthra

Baha'i
Please, someone help me. I have recently been in an intense internal conflict over whether or not I should be theistic or atheistic.

I am a pansexual male who has OCD and most likely deperession. I used to be extremely religious, but a combination of my sexuality and oppression at church(es) prompted me to leave my faith. While I was very happy when I was religious, I felt irrational and moral-less at times. But, since I felt my faith, I've felt more free and more depressed. When I was religious, I would frequently pray to God to turn me into a heterosexual person, but never saw a change in my sexuality. I am now embracing my sexuality, but frequently wonder if I'm immoral. Right now, I feel like a defective and hopeless abomination.

I have asked both theists and atheists for help, and have gotten panned and insulted by both sides.

I don't know whether or not my sexuality is a choice. I don't know if it's immoral to be LGBT+. I don't know if I'll go to hell by being atheistic, and I don't know if I'm simply digging myself into a hole by being theistic. I need help quickly. If you wish to convert me to either side, please provide me some kind of evidence.

Jerem,

I would urge you to seek professional counseling to help sort out the issues of your life... I don't think at this stage you should "convert"... as there are more issues that likely will not be dealt with.. If you have a Family Service agency in your community or are eligible for a psychiatric evaluation and treatment I would urge you to avail yourself of these services.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Please, someone help me. I have recently been in an intense internal conflict over whether or not I should be theistic or atheistic.

I am a pansexual male who has OCD and most likely deperession. I used to be extremely religious, but a combination of my sexuality and oppression at church(es) prompted me to leave my faith. While I was very happy when I was religious, I felt irrational and moral-less at times. But, since I felt my faith, I've felt more free and more depressed. When I was religious, I would frequently pray to God to turn me into a heterosexual person, but never saw a change in my sexuality. I am now embracing my sexuality, but frequently wonder if I'm immoral. Right now, I feel like a defective and hopeless abomination.

I have asked both theists and atheists for help, and have gotten panned and insulted by both sides.

I don't know whether or not my sexuality is a choice. I don't know if it's immoral to be LGBT+. I don't know if I'll go to hell by being atheistic, and I don't know if I'm simply digging myself into a hole by being theistic. I need help quickly. If you wish to convert me to either side, please provide me some kind of evidence.
Hello, brother.

I suffer from much the same issues. I'm a transsexual (female to male) and used to identify as bisexual but have come to the conclusion that I am a straight male. I struggle with severe depression and bouts of disillusionment with my faith. I feel a lot better when I am engaged in my faith but my depression and life circumstances make that very hard and I tend to feel very apathetic about it. I have also struggled with questions over sexual orientation and my religion. I'm going through a period of weighing out both sides of the argument. What I know now is that is your sexual orientation isn't likely to actually change but you can control your behavior. If you do feel that homosexual sexual activity is wrong, then you can abstain from such things. Ask God to give you the strength to do so. You mention being pansexual, so at least there's an attraction to women there. I suggest that you do a lot of reading about the subject, read the Bible and learn the history of the subject in Christianity. Look to what the Saints and Church Fathers might have to say about the subject. Even if you're part of a denomination that doesn't believe in the Communion of Saints, they're still good sources of information when it comes to theology and morality.

But try to pray as much as you can, asking God to lead you towards the truth. Attend church if it is possible for you. Also be sure to seek out help for your mental health issues. Therapy and medication can do you a world of good.

God bless you and be with you.
 
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Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Please, someone help me. I have recently been in an intense internal conflict over whether or not I should be theistic or atheistic.

I am a pansexual male who has OCD and most likely deperession. I used to be extremely religious, but a combination of my sexuality and oppression at church(es) prompted me to leave my faith. While I was very happy when I was religious, I felt irrational and moral-less at times. But, since I felt my faith, I've felt more free and more depressed. When I was religious, I would frequently pray to God to turn me into a heterosexual person, but never saw a change in my sexuality. I am now embracing my sexuality, but frequently wonder if I'm immoral. Right now, I feel like a defective and hopeless abomination.

I have asked both theists and atheists for help, and have gotten panned and insulted by both sides.

I don't know whether or not my sexuality is a choice. I don't know if it's immoral to be LGBT+. I don't know if I'll go to hell by being atheistic, and I don't know if I'm simply digging myself into a hole by being theistic. I need help quickly. If you wish to convert me to either side, please provide me some kind of evidence.

Close your eyes, take a few deep breaths, and just keep going until you feel in control and can relax.

Coming out is the hardest thing I've ever had to do. it is not simply a question of who you sleep with, but affects other aspects of your identity as well. When you know you are something which other people may find offensive, it rips you up in a way that is very hard for other people to understand. your existence offends them, and out of fear, it is easier to hate yourself than to find the courage to be yourself. Don't feel that because your struggling with these questions that you are in any way defective or hopeless. it's ok to be afriad. :)

What you need right now is someone who teaches you to love yourself and to forgive yourself for wanting to be different. no matter what happens, love must win out, for without love we are not human. I am an atheist, and what I can say is that conversion is not an instant process; you can change the label, but you can't change the man. it is not simply about the ideas you have, but how you feel and the inner most sincerity with which these beliefs are held, even if you do a double take and wonder if such beliefs are evil. Right now, you think you want someone to convert you, but deep down you know that you want someone to make the fear and the anger go away. whether you decide to be a theist or an atheist actually makes little difference- but what does matter is that whatever you chose, you chose to love yourself for who you are.

being homosexual, pansexual or (in my case) bisexual is not a choice. Alot of christians say it is, but there is no evidence to support this. If you want to look into it to know for yourself, your welcome to it (just don't look at the stuff on gay-straight conversion therapies because you feel guilty; give both sides a fair hearing). Alot of sources will say that sexual orientation is genetic; I don't accept that view, but even so, I recognise that there is no way my sexual orientation is a choice as it is too deeply rooted in my unconscious. As much as you want to change yourself to fit a hetrosexual image, ultimately it will be a form of self-harm. once you accept this, it will may any decisions much clearer and easier.

Take this one step at a time. The first question you should ask, is if god holds homosexuality, etc, as a sin and why. approach this from a critical position, and you will find that the position of all major religions on this question is very diverse and has changed throughout history. it will become clear that this is not necessarily written in stone and that there are ways to be of a religious faith and to be Pansexual. So, there is no need for you to be a member of a religious community that stigmatise your sexual orientation; people can be religious and can and do accept it. You do not have to give up your religious beliefs and or force yourself to do so as that is almost as bad as wanting to change your sexual orientation. Even if there is no god, these are beliefs that you have held sincerely, deeply and for a long time. give yourself the chance to think on them and do not accept quick fixes. respect yourself and your own beliefs. A religion or belief system is how you find your path through the world, so be sure you are following the "right" one and its up to you to figure out how to determine what makes a path the right one to follow. Trust your own judgement.

the next step to figure out who it is who sees your sexual oreintation as a 'problem'; it is god, or is it people in the name of god. it will take a while to distinguish between the two as you will need a good knowledge of your religion (finding passages in key texts helps) and of it's history. For the sake of argument, I'm going to assume you are a Christian. Whatever you do- the end goal must be acceptance of your own sexual orientation and to find a way to love and forgive yourself. God is love, so it is doubtful that a true god would ever want to hurt you for something as trival as wanting to sleep with a someone of the same gender. God is all knowing- and he will know that there are some really bad people in the world who he should be paying attention to. arms dealer, terrorists, dictators, rapists, pedophiles; and these people clearly did make a choice for which they can be judged. you didn't. you just fell in love with someone or were attracted to someone you saw. you are not going to be at the top of his to do list, if you are even on it at all. The universe is a big place and god is going to be busy trying to make sense of it.

This doesn't mean however, that there aren't people in the world who find homosexuality offensive. The choice is whether you take them seriously. once you made a decision that god is not on their side, but may well be on yours, you can be honest with yourself about how you really feel. hate, anger, fear, violence will probably come up to. these are all natural reactions to the feeling of being violated in such a deeply personal way- someone telling you who you can and cannot love. these are not however 'people' in the abstract, but will be people you know. freinds, family members, people who you work with or share your faith with; you have the right to feel angry, but do not left the anger define you. don't let it overwhelm you. accept it and then find the courage to forgive and pity these people for not understanding or accepting who you are. that is there mistake- not yours. it will take a while to realise the reasons why people are so afriad of you being pansexual, but ussually it because they're frightened of having the "wrong" kind of sex. your fears of coming out are not unique to you- but are much more widespread and pretty much universal in western societies where sex is still taboo. even though things have got more liberal, sex is still a difficult issue for most people as they try to reconcile wanting to be happy with having the "right" kind of sex or relationship. this isn't just whether they are attrached to the same sex- but covers, body image, performance anxiety, whether a guys gentiles are a "respectable" size- but the truth is... they'll get the job done. ;) learning to let go of the anxiety and establishing that you don't need to feel anxious will take you a long way.

If by any chance, you find yourself arriving at the conclusion that there is no god, this can be both a duanting and liberting experience. what will I do with my life without my faith? how do I know I've made the right decision? etc. ultimately, these things are about acceptance, learning to love and forgive yourself for who you are and screwing up occassionally- which everyone does. if you learn to trust you own judgement, and don't feel that either god or other people are looking over your shoulder- the right path will always be the one that is true to yourself even if others don't necessarily understand or accept it. it's still your journey, whereever it will take you.

God bless.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
I think you are mistaken if you think God really wants you to be straight, when your biology tells you otherwise, I think maybe God wants you to be faithful to your partners, but in my sincere opinion, God is not a bigot, but many Christians are bigots, even a lot of people in the Bible appear to be bigots, but God is not a bigot, God is love, not hate, not intolerance, understand you don't have to give up God, you have to give up some other people's bigoted assumptions of what God is.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
But, since I felt my faith, I've felt more free and more depressed. When I was religious, I would frequently pray to God .. Right now, I feel like a defective and hopeless abomination.

If you wish to convert me to either side, please provide me some kind of evidence.
I have no desire to convert you to atheism or theism. This is a decision which you need to take. You said you feel more free, engage yourself in activities to overcome your depression. There may be things other than sex which you may find enjoyable. As for sex, you are what you are. Accept your inclinations, only do not transgress law.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Please, someone help me. I have recently been in an intense internal conflict over whether or not I should be theistic or atheistic.

I am a pansexual male who has OCD and most likely deperession. I used to be extremely religious, but a combination of my sexuality and oppression at church(es) prompted me to leave my faith. While I was very happy when I was religious, I felt irrational and moral-less at times. But, since I felt my faith, I've felt more free and more depressed. When I was religious, I would frequently pray to God to turn me into a heterosexual person, but never saw a change in my sexuality. I am now embracing my sexuality, but frequently wonder if I'm immoral. Right now, I feel like a defective and hopeless abomination.

I have asked both theists and atheists for help, and have gotten panned and insulted by both sides.

I don't know whether or not my sexuality is a choice. I don't know if it's immoral to be LGBT+. I don't know if I'll go to hell by being atheistic, and I don't know if I'm simply digging myself into a hole by being theistic. I need help quickly. If you wish to convert me to either side, please provide me some kind of evidence.

Stop worrying. That's it. Problem solved.

Easier said than done though.
 

JeremK

Member
More clarification: I've been taught to love and accept everyone, regardless of their sexuality, race, etc. But, I've also been taught that many of the people I'm supposed to accept are objectively evil and wrong. I've been taught that Atheists are foolish and evil. But, I've also been told that religious bigots are evil. I have an extreme phobia of hell (I used to have intrusive thoughts in which I would witness a random friend in Hell, and enjoy watching their torment; I obviously felt bad afterwards). I was raised by one (partially) Christian parent, and one Atheistic parent.

While I've noted the fact that the religious are frequently incorrect and oppressive, and overall less intelligent than the average Atheist, many of the Bible's prophecies do appear to be coming true. Yet, at the same time, a lot of them are fulfilled because of what the Bible says, and a few of them are sketchy, to say the least.

Overall, I'm just confused. I feel as if I'm being tugged on by two equally strong internal "forces," and I'm caught in the middle of everything.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
I just think its important that you consider that a lot of Christians and even the Bible may have wrong ideas about God, God is much bigger and more perfect than what mortal people and prophets try to say about God, use your best judgement, why would God, who is Love, possibly want to condemn you because of your God given sexual orientation. Sometimes people in your position need to move away from bigoted organized religion, and make up your own mind about who, if anyone, God is. No one, even prophets in the Bible can make God be violent, hateful, and angry, because IMHO, God is none of those things. Putting organized religion behind you does not have to mean giving up on God, God is always there to help you, And honestly I don't believe in a God that cares whether or not you go to church, or believe everything written "about" God in the Bible.
 
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