Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
Try being gay for a while then to see if you like it.
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ISSUE OF HOMOSEXUALITY
- Thread starter Monk Of Reason
- Start date
Try being gay for a while then to see if you like it.
OneThatGotAway
Servant of Yahweh God Almighty
OneThatGotAway said: "How is it that my God abuse you? Yahweh Almighty God is the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth. He made these things for mankind to enjoy and live a lifetime of happiness. If such a Creator is responsible for fashioning the very air we breath and making the earth inhabitable to produce food for our consumption; how is that abuse? However, if a man or woman hurts another man, woman, girl, or boy, should not God set laws in place to protect helpless from such hurt? Was he wrong in punishing Sodom and Omarrah for their sexual sins?"
Debate Slayer: "Homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone. Why should people be punished for it when it doesn't harm anyone in the first place? In my opinion, the god portrayed in the Old Testament is abusive by being genocidal, vengeful, and arrogant. It is scary to me that so many people idealize (and idolize) such a character and view it as a paragon of morality and righteousness."
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In regards to previous comments on Sodom posted to me and this one about somebody hurting anyone, it is written:
"And they called unto Lute, and said unto him, Where [are] the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lute went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,...And they said, Stand back. And they said [again], This one [fellow] came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, [even] Lute, and came near to break the door. -- Genesis 19;5,6,9
It appears to me that the men of Sodom had gang anal rape on their mind to the point that doing it with women disgusted them; they wanted fresh bodies from men. I would call that hurting someone; if you don't think that hurts, then ask the thousands of prisoners in prisons across the world. In my opinion the God in the Old Testament is merciful and non-genocidal, preserving hundreds of nations. He is kind those who are kind to others; and he is vengeful to those that abuse, torture, and murders others. In my opinion, Yahweh is not arrogant simply because of who he is and what he has done for the sons of Aedam. It is scary to me that people idolize and worship other people, despite their faults.
Debate Slayer: "Homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone. Why should people be punished for it when it doesn't harm anyone in the first place? In my opinion, the god portrayed in the Old Testament is abusive by being genocidal, vengeful, and arrogant. It is scary to me that so many people idealize (and idolize) such a character and view it as a paragon of morality and righteousness."
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In regards to previous comments on Sodom posted to me and this one about somebody hurting anyone, it is written:
"And they called unto Lute, and said unto him, Where [are] the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lute went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,...And they said, Stand back. And they said [again], This one [fellow] came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, [even] Lute, and came near to break the door. -- Genesis 19;5,6,9
It appears to me that the men of Sodom had gang anal rape on their mind to the point that doing it with women disgusted them; they wanted fresh bodies from men. I would call that hurting someone; if you don't think that hurts, then ask the thousands of prisoners in prisons across the world. In my opinion the God in the Old Testament is merciful and non-genocidal, preserving hundreds of nations. He is kind those who are kind to others; and he is vengeful to those that abuse, torture, and murders others. In my opinion, Yahweh is not arrogant simply because of who he is and what he has done for the sons of Aedam. It is scary to me that people idolize and worship other people, despite their faults.
Well, that's anal rape, then. What about consensual homosexual sex between informed adults? Is that a sin too?
OneThatGotAway
Servant of Yahweh God Almighty
OneThatGotAway said: "Was he wrong in punishing Sodom and Omarrah for their sexual sins?"
We do not have any written record that God worked with them for the better; and we don't know whether God made any attempt to work with the people of Sodom and Omarrah.
Therefore, in my opinion, I cannot say that God was wrong because I do not have access to all of the events leading up to their destruction.
We do not have any written record that God worked with them for the better; and we don't know whether God made any attempt to work with the people of Sodom and Omarrah.
Therefore, in my opinion, I cannot say that God was wrong because I do not have access to all of the events leading up to their destruction.
gsa
Well-Known Member
So your god left you with incomplete information, in a matter involving the complete destruction of a city containing thousands of men, women and children?
I mean, if you can't justify it on the basis of what is contained in the text, doesn't that say something?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
The point was, rather than just saying pray for forgiveness, he sent his own son to be tortured to a slow and agonizing death.
You apparently missed the point: owning a human being as a piece of property is not good. It is something only a real ******* is capable of. Human beings are not property, yet slavery degrades them to that status.
But, did she have to die? For something so petty?
That does not excuse the fact that we are all punished, even before we are born, because of the sins of Adam and Eve. We didn't even get a chance: we are born with a sinful nature.
So much for not punishing the son for the sins of the father.
You do see the logical fallacy of that, don't you? If god controls every situation, then we cannot have free will because we are controlled by god.
And I'd rather not spend it with a god who instructed the soldiers of Israel to take women as sex-slaves, hack up children, and tear open pregnant women.
If he controls everything, then had he worked with them they would have changed.
Either he didn't work with them, or he doesn't control everything.
Yet you accept the story of sodom as true and use it to reenfrorce your stance against homosexuality and you don't see how that is self fulfilling? Why?
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
What are you talking about? I could just as easily say "I should start a hot dog business, because if I discover the recipe for the world's most delicious hot dog I would become a millionaire!". If you happened to find a religious belief structure that you could prove to be true, then congratulations. But in reality, no such thing currently exists, and we have no reason to assume it does. Right now, science is proving things - not religion. You can't just hitch religion on to science and say "now we have proven religion!" That's nonsense, and it's not how science or religion work.
You do realize that science existed before congress and special interest groups, right?
Again, what are you talking about? Do you understand that you are currently living in a society that is like the one I described? Law is secular - religion can't influence it. That's the point of secularism. So why on earth do you think religious groups could successfully petition to release a murderer on religious grounds?? Do you even know what secular means??
Monk Of Reason
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
So 50% to you is not a substantial amount? What is exactly? Is it 96%? What if I told you that one of the leading reasons that only half of officially married homosexuals have children is because adoption agencies are still prejudice in many areas?
edit*
Also from my source it seems some seventy percent of the non-married couples have children together. Many of those seventy percent are in simple civil unions that are not allowed to marry. Is seventy percent close enough yet?
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One that Got Away states: It appears to me that the men of Sodom had gang anal rape on their mind to the point that doing it with women disgusted them; they wanted fresh bodies from men. I would call that hurting someone; if you don't think that hurts, then ask the thousands of prisoners in prisons across the world. In my opinion the God in the Old Testament is merciful and non-genocidal, preserving hundreds of nations. He is kind those who are kind to others; and he is vengeful to those that abuse, torture, and murders others. In my opinion, Yahweh is not arrogant simply because of who he is and what he has done for the sons of Aedam. It is scary to me that people idolize and worship other people, despite their faults.
I wonder...have you worked in prisons in the medical field? Or in any capacity at all? Yes, some prisoners rape other men. And sometimes the guards for that matter. You see, I have worked in maximum and medium security prisons as an APRN. And despite that some are raped, a goodly number become what the Hawaiians call a 'mahu' or IOW, a homosexual and/or transgender and sell themselves for sex. In all the time I have worked in these settings, the number that came to the clinic due to rape were very few. Of course, we recognized that many didn't come d/t being considered less of a man. Most that came to the clinic did so for medications which were strictly monitored or for minor issues, such as the flu, etc. A few were truly sick and ended up in the infirmary. But your assertion about men in prison and rape is more legend and myth than reality. And btw, keep in mind that I did say it occcurs.
I wonder...have you worked in prisons in the medical field? Or in any capacity at all? Yes, some prisoners rape other men. And sometimes the guards for that matter. You see, I have worked in maximum and medium security prisons as an APRN. And despite that some are raped, a goodly number become what the Hawaiians call a 'mahu' or IOW, a homosexual and/or transgender and sell themselves for sex. In all the time I have worked in these settings, the number that came to the clinic due to rape were very few. Of course, we recognized that many didn't come d/t being considered less of a man. Most that came to the clinic did so for medications which were strictly monitored or for minor issues, such as the flu, etc. A few were truly sick and ended up in the infirmary. But your assertion about men in prison and rape is more legend and myth than reality. And btw, keep in mind that I did say it occcurs.
Why so mant adjectives, when "perfect" would have been sufficient?
Well, you have nothing to fear either, if Allah does not exist. However, if He does exist, well...
It is "ouch" for both of us. One "ouch" less for me If He punishes incorrect verbs declinations when applied to Him, though
Ciao
- viole
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Okay, so you're going to do absolutely nothing to stamp out homosexuality. Good.
Just a point about slavery- amongst those who lived by Torah commands slavery was a very different thing than it was as practiced by non-Torah governed societies. Which includes America in the time it practiced slavery. There is no similarity of 'slavery" under Torah and slavery under any other form of government. The Bible does not condone 'slavery' in any other form outside the limits and responsibilities outlined in Torah. It does recognize that slavery was a reality both within Torah boundaries and outside. Before one condemns the Bible as supporting the inhuman subjugation of another they should really do their homework and fine out what the Bible actually requires of the "owner"..
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
This sounds good until you are asked why some slaves were to have holes put in their ears.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
What is described in the Bible is slavery. The owning of another human being as property.
I find the attempts I've seen to sugar coat it are not only a cop out, but immoral as well.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
That is utterly and entirely irrelevant.
The inherent evil of slavery--no mater how it's conducted, how the slaves are treated, no mater what laws govern it--is owning another human being as property.
So what? Roman Slavery has it's own connotations separate to other forms of slavery as well. Just because it has different rules and cultural expectations doesn't mean it was magically good by any sense of the word. You may as well argue, but that woman who merciless beat her child to near death is different than that other lady who only beat her child for half an hour. Both are still pretty heinous regardless of circumstances.
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ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Do you support the sanctioned ownership of another human being (and their family) as personal property to be bought, sold and inhereted?
I've done my 'homework' about this. Can you truly believe that owning another human is something that God would have condoned? Would you like to be owned by someone? Would you like to be sold to someone else? No matter how you phrase it, or state that ownership of another is more pleasing per the Bible, its still reprehensible and doesn't represent what God, in my belief, would ever have wanted for anyone.