Can a person choose to believe?

[Nerissa]

I have a question.
I consider myself agnostic because I have never felt any certainty about a God. I haven't had any religious experiences but I also cannot say that I decisively do not believe in God (or anything else, for that matter).
The only thing I know is that I don't know.
However, I have visited temples and churches. Sometimes because of my studies, sometimes because I was simply interested. In a Christian Pentecostal movement, I met some really nice (and extremely enthusiastic) people who told me that faith was a matter of choice. At one point, you simply have to decide to believe and reach out to God and then he will reach out to you. They told me that many of them had had doubts of their own, and they only went away when they completely devoted themselves to their faith and their church.
I simply don't understand. Or maybe I'm just not capable of doing what they say. How can you reach out to God if you're not even sure to whom or what you are speaking?
The same is for people who say they "decided" to join a specific group or community. How is it possible to choose what to believe? Either you believe it or you don't, right?
I am curious what your experiences are in this area. Especially those of you who are believers - was it a deliberate choice you made? Or did you simple "feel" it was the truth some day, whether you wanted to believe it or not?

 

[Orbit]

You have trouble with it because you value rationality. What they are trying to tell you is that they base their decision to believe on emotion, not reason. They decided to believe because it feels good to believe.

 

[Desert Snake]

No.

 

[lunakilo]

I have had some very frustration discussions with people about this.

I don't understand how belief can be a choice either.
The way I see it, you believe whatever it is you believe because you have some convincing reason to believe it.
That doesn't mean you need absolute proof, but it means something has convienced you that your belifs make sense.

 

[Tarheeler]

I've tried to be a Christian. I've tried to be polytheistic. I've tried to be an atheist. I can make logical and well reasoned arguments suggesting against the existence of the Divine.
But I still believe. And I believe in a specific religious paradigm.

I don't believe it's a choice. I think it is something that is either there, not there, or somewhere in between. No amount of evidence or logic is going to make the unbeliever or the believer change their mind; there's something more involved.

 

[Salvador]

Yes, everybody has free will to accept or reject God's salvation. I've read that even each mind of conjoined twins who share the same genetic code and body can have different beliefs. Somebody had told me that she knew of conjoined twins where one mind of the conjoined twins was a staunch atheist and the other twin's mind was a devout Catholic.

 

[Quintessence]

As a determinist, I don't believe creatures "choose" to do anything. They do what they must as a product of their experiences and their nature. The theology I developed was the inevitable result of my past and my nature. It could not have been any other way. I was raised with a narrow understanding of what "god" means. I did not value that meaning of "god." When at last I became educated of other ways of understanding what "god" means, there was no need to "choose" or "believe" in something. It was a matter of taking the things I already held sacred and realizing "yes, gods can be that, so I'm going to call them what they are: gods."

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I have a question.
I consider myself agnostic because I have never felt any certainty about a God. I haven't had any religious experiences but I also cannot say that I decisively do not believe in God (or anything else, for that matter).
The only thing I know is that I don't know.
However, I have visited temples and churches. Sometimes because of my studies, sometimes because I was simply interested. In a Christian Pentecostal movement, I met some really nice (and extremely enthusiastic) people who told me that faith was a matter of choice. At one point, you simply have to decide to believe and reach out to God and then he will reach out to you. They told me that many of them had had doubts of their own, and they only went away when they completely devoted themselves to their faith and their church.
I simply don't understand. Or maybe I'm just not capable of doing what they say. How can you reach out to God if you're not even sure to whom or what you are speaking?
The same is for people who say they "decided" to join a specific group or community. How is it possible to choose what to believe? Either you believe it or you don't, right?
I am curious what your experiences are in this area. Especially those of you who are believers - was it a deliberate choice you made? Or did you simple "feel" it was the truth some day, whether you wanted to believe it or not?

That's a good question I think, I was in a very similar situation, where I became open to the idea rationally, but without any real personal conviction. It also didn't make sense to me when people said you have to 'really believe' before you could 'really believe', but it did later. I think making a connection has to be very personal, and does take some concerted effort, intent. so yes, a choice in that sense, to truly open yourself- The response, confirmation people speak of is also highly personal, different for each person perhaps, but very definitive for me, unlike anything I'd ever experienced.

 

[lunakilo]

That's a good question I think, I was in a very similar situation, where I became open to the idea rationally, but without any real personal conviction. It also didn't make sense to me when people said you have to 'really believe' before you could 'really believe', but it did later. I think making a connection has to be very personal, and does take some concerted effort, intent. so yes, a choice in that sense, to truly open yourself- The response, confirmation people speak of is also highly personal, different for each person perhaps, but very definitive for me, unlike anything I'd ever experienced.

So what you are saying is that you the choice is to be open to the thing that will conveince you to believe?

 

[George-ananda]

I think that one can consider that there is more to the universe than what we can reach in our mundane experience. But it may be that to explore that 'more' one has to first be open to it. Perhaps if you are earnest, a convincing 'experience' will be given to you. I think there likely could be truth in the old saying 'seek and ye shall find'. I personally believe there are positive forces out there that want to give you signs.But then later in your sober moments, you will again question that experience. So, I see your uncertainty and confusion.

For me personally, it was my study of the full paranormal field that made me believe (ten times over) that there must be 'more' than my previous atheist-materialist worldview could hold. I have come to the strong belief that the eastern spiritual tradition has drilled into this 'more' deeper than any other tradition. Hence, I am a 'believer' not based on personal experience (but I have had some but later doubted in my most sober moments).

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

I have a question.
I consider myself agnostic because I have never felt any certainty about a God. I haven't had any religious experiences but I also cannot say that I decisively do not believe in God (or anything else, for that matter).
The only thing I know is that I don't know.
However, I have visited temples and churches. Sometimes because of my studies, sometimes because I was simply interested. In a Christian Pentecostal movement, I met some really nice (and extremely enthusiastic) people who told me that faith was a matter of choice. At one point, you simply have to decide to believe and reach out to God and then he will reach out to you. They told me that many of them had had doubts of their own, and they only went away when they completely devoted themselves to their faith and their church.
I simply don't understand. Or maybe I'm just not capable of doing what they say. How can you reach out to God if you're not even sure to whom or what you are speaking?
The same is for people who say they "decided" to join a specific group or community. How is it possible to choose what to believe? Either you believe it or you don't, right?
I am curious what your experiences are in this area. Especially those of you who are believers - was it a deliberate choice you made? Or did you simple "feel" it was the truth some day, whether you wanted to believe it or not?

Actually all subjectivity works by choosing. With choosing you have
1 options, the alternative futures
2 the decision, the act of making one of those futures the present
3 the result of the decision
4 the agency, what it is that makes the devision turn out the way it does

1 to 3 are all issues of fact, they can all be measured in principle.

but agency is categorically a matter of opinion.

Facts are obtained by evidence forcing ti a conclusion, which conclusion is then a copy / model of what is evidenced. For example " the statement "the moon is round", these words are forced by the evidence of the moon itself. It is a copy of the physical moon, to a world of words.

Opinions work totally differently. With opinions you arrive at the conclusion by choosing it, and the conclusion is always about agency. For example the opinion "the painting is beautiful". The conclusion is arrived at by expression of emotion with free will, thus choosing. Choosing between the words ugly and beautiful for instance. Both conclusions are equally valid, unlike with facts where only a single conclusion can be logically valid, the perfect copy/model.

Beauty is a love of the way the painting looks. The love is what chooses the word beauty, love is agency. So you see opinions are always abouy agency, and by agency. Opinions are arrived at by choosing, and they are about what it is that chooses.

God is also agency, therefore the existence of God is a matter of opinion. That means one can only reach the conclusion on the issue by choosing it.

This is the only way the concept of ftee will can function. If one were to regard agency as an issue of fact, then since facts are obtained by force, forced by evidence, then one is equally saying that choosing is forced, which is a logical contradiction.

Since opinions are arrived at in a free way, it leaves the freedom in the concept of choosing in tact when agency is regarded as a matter of opinion.

 

[Nerissa]

You have trouble with it because you value rationality. What they are trying to tell you is that they base their decision to believe on emotion, not reason. They decided to believe because it feels good to believe.

I suppose that's true. But then again, I don't expect God to come down and say hello. I do understand that simply feeling something is right is the main reason people believe. But I don't feel that either.
Sometimes I feel like I want to believe, but wanting and actually believing are two very different things, arent't they?
Let me give you an example. I didn't do the dishes tonight because I was feeling lazy and annoyed. I believe that in the morning those dishes will still be there, anxiously awaiting my arrival. However what I want to believe is that a bunch of leprechauns will march into my house tonight and do them for me. But I don't believe they will. Not just because I haven't seen any leprechauns, but because my gut simply tells me I'll be doing those dishes myself tomorrow.
By the way, I don't mean to mock anyone's faith or anything. I'm just trying to explain how I feel.

 

[LuisDantas]

It took me a while after meeting an occultist group to notice that I did not believe their teachings.

Sometimes peer pressure is the deciding factor.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I do not believe anyone can chose their beliefs. You can chose to follow a belief that you are called to. However, that calling is already there (or belief is there), you just found a community and structure (or person) that correlates what you already believed in.

In Christianity, I have been told it's more of a revelation rather than a choice. (After picking at "how can it be a choice" with Christians, that is what I found). Every Christian I know has had some type of experience that convinced them that Jesus is Lord. I never had a profound experience like that. The most profound experience within Christianity (or relationship with Christ) was the sacraments of the Church.

I do not believe in "faith based" religions. If you want to follow a particular faith, you must build a relationship with it (or Him or Her). It is like a girlfriend or boyfriend you have. You can't just "be in love" in a second. You have to build that love or foundation to which both of you follow. It's the same with Christ. In a Christian point of view, if you develop your relationship with Christ through scripture and see the blessings and warnings as God talking to you and the synchronicity in life, then you start impersonating or making personal your faith and it becomes your life.

This is with any faith. A lot of beliefs are not "faith based, they are action based." You have to do something in order to build that faith in whatever or whomever you want to believe in.

There is a quote that says "you can't believe because you want to believe, you have to belief the facts they tell you are true."

I honestly think many people believe because they want to believe yet they need faith because they are hoping the facts that are in front of them--myths, scripture, stories, etc, are true.

I think if you think about this too much, it will drive you nuts. Society has built an invisible wall that closes in on us to pressure us into a belief of some type. Maybe it's the pressure that is making you feel you're an agnostic; but, you see through the differences between fact and faith, feeling and reason, and synchronicity and coincidence. If you do, that's okay.

It's all based on faith and feeling that makes you see your life in a different light and make you feel whole. That is spirituality. God, in a objective point of view, has nothing to do with it.

We can want to be in a relationship and want to built into it--that is our choice. However, we have to have faith that this relationship will work if we put our motivation and life into it--when you get to that point, that's when you make it personal and makes your belief true to you.

Belief is not a choice, it's how and what you use to build a foundation for that belief and make it more mature that it becomes fact (subjective) rather than choice.

I have a question.
I consider myself agnostic because I have never felt any certainty about a God. I haven't had any religious experiences but I also cannot say that I decisively do not believe in God (or anything else, for that matter).
The only thing I know is that I don't know.
However, I have visited temples and churches. Sometimes because of my studies, sometimes because I was simply interested. In a Christian Pentecostal movement, I met some really nice (and extremely enthusiastic) people who told me that faith was a matter of choice. At one point, you simply have to decide to believe and reach out to God and then he will reach out to you. They told me that many of them had had doubts of their own, and they only went away when they completely devoted themselves to their faith and their church.
I simply don't understand. Or maybe I'm just not capable of doing what they say. How can you reach out to God if you're not even sure to whom or what you are speaking?
The same is for people who say they "decided" to join a specific group or community. How is it possible to choose what to believe? Either you believe it or you don't, right?
I am curious what your experiences are in this area. Especially those of you who are believers - was it a deliberate choice you made? Or did you simple "feel" it was the truth some day, whether you wanted to believe it or not?

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

I suppose that's true. But then again, I don't expect God to come down and say hello. I do understand that simply feeling something is right is the main reason people believe. But I don't feel that either.
Sometimes I feel like I want to believe, but wanting and actually believing are two very different things, arent't they?
Let me give you an example. I didn't do the dishes tonight because I was feeling lazy and annoyed. I believe that in the morning those dishes will still be there, anxiously awaiting my arrival. However what I want to believe is that a bunch of leprechauns will march into my house tonight and do them for me. But I don't believe they will. Not just because I haven't seen any leprechauns, but because my gut simply tells me I'll be doing those dishes myself tomorrow.
By the way, I don't mean to mock anyone's faith or anything. I'm just trying to explain how I feel.

You are just confusing opinion with fact like every other atheist, agnostic, evolutionist .

That the dishes are there in the morning is a factual issue, that you are lazy is a matter of opinion. The existence of God falls in the same category as whether or not you are lazy, it is categorically a matter of opinion because it is about agency of a decision. All opinions can only be arrived at by choosing, which means that you are lazy is valid, and that you are not lazy is also a valid conclusion which can be chosen. That God exists is a valid conclusion and that God does not exist is a logically valid conclusion.

But to be forced by evidence to the conclusion that you are lazy, is logically invalid.

 

[LuisDantas]

You are just confusing opinion with fact like every other atheist, agnostic, evolutionist .

That the dishes are there in the morning is a factual issue, that you are lazy is a matter of opinion. The existence of God falls in the same category as whether or not you are lazy, it is categorically a matter of opinion because it is about agency of a decision. All opinions can only be arrived at by choosing, which means that you are lazy is valid, and that you are not lazy is also a valid conclusion which can be chosen. That God exists is a valid conclusion and that God does not exist is a logically valid conclusion.

But to be forced by evidence to the conclusion that you are lazy, is logically invalid.

I swear, I have the hardest of times attempting to decide whether you want this to be understood.

 

[George-ananda]

Can a person choose to believe?

I think people can choose to believe but they would not recognize it as such. They will give reasons, arguments and experiences (but they can't prove or disprove the case; so they can go on and on). Agnostics are the only ones not choosing a position. Theists and atheists can choose a side based on some subconscious preference (but I'm not saying that's why all theists and atheists take their position).

 

[Jainarayan]

... was it a deliberate choice you made? Or did you simple "feel" it was the truth some day, whether you wanted to believe it or not?

Over the years there were certain things I wanted to believe, for whatever reason I thought I should or wanted to believe them, but it didn't work. What I believe now is something I feel. I guess it was always inside me, but is something I didn't think I could or would believe. This was not a deliberate choice, it came out of left field.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

I have a question.
I consider myself agnostic because I have never felt any certainty about a God. I haven't had any religious experiences but I also cannot say that I decisively do not believe in God (or anything else, for that matter).
The only thing I know is that I don't know.
However, I have visited temples and churches. Sometimes because of my studies, sometimes because I was simply interested. In a Christian Pentecostal movement, I met some really nice (and extremely enthusiastic) people who told me that faith was a matter of choice. At one point, you simply have to decide to believe and reach out to God and then he will reach out to you. They told me that many of them had had doubts of their own, and they only went away when they completely devoted themselves to their faith and their church.
I simply don't understand. Or maybe I'm just not capable of doing what they say. How can you reach out to God if you're not even sure to whom or what you are speaking?
The same is for people who say they "decided" to join a specific group or community. How is it possible to choose what to believe? Either you believe it or you don't, right?
I am curious what your experiences are in this area. Especially those of you who are believers - was it a deliberate choice you made? Or did you simple "feel" it was the truth some day, whether you wanted to believe it or not?

I think I understand, and yes it is very possible to choose to believe. It is very much like finally reaching a decision to buy a house, or which shoes to wear, or any other decision one ponders.

I remember when I was very young, questioning if there god was real. I was given a bible by my god parents and I read it quite a bit. I talked to our pastor about it, and to my relatives. I found the things I read unbelievable. I read that ask and it shall be give; I prayed and prayed and didn't get what I asked for. All kinds of questions and searching; for a kid about 10 years old.

When one seeks an answer they gather all the information they can, they think and analyze, consult with confidents and experts. In the end when you can not come to decision based on certain knowledge, you choose from the gut; do you go right or left.

Is this god stuff really real? I asked my nana, my mom, my pastor, etc. etc. etc. I would never have believed it except for all of the confirmation. In the end, I closed the bible and accepted it because everyone else said so and it was better than burning in hell. I still remember it was a conscious decision; I chose to believe whatever the hell I was told so I didn't have to think about it any more.

 

[Cephus]

You have trouble with it because you value rationality. What they are trying to tell you is that they base their decision to believe on emotion, not reason. They decided to believe because it feels good to believe.

You can't decide to believe, you have to be convinced on some level that it's true. You are correct that they believe on an entirely emotional level because there is no reason whatsoever to believe it on an intellectual one. People ought to value rationality. It's sad that so many do not.