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Should creationism be taught as the foundation of science?

Should creationism be taught as the foundation of science?

  • Yes, we should have clear acceptance of both fact and opinion

    Votes: 3 15.0%
  • No, everybody can have a different opinion about what facts and opinions are

    Votes: 17 85.0%

  • Total voters
    20

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
Only creationism validates both fact and opinion, that is why it should be the foundation of science. Other philosophies only validate fact, like materialism, or only validate opinion, like postmodernism.

Creator:
subjectivity
opinion = the result of choosing about what it is that chooses
emotions
soul
spirit
morality
religion
spirituality

Creation:
objectivity
fact = copying / modelling something from creation
body
brain
fantasy
mathematics
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Only creationism validates both fact and opinion, that is why it should be the foundation of science. Other philosophies only validate fact, like materialism, or only validate opinion, like postmodernism.

Creator:
subjectivity
opinion = the result of choosing about what it is that chooses
emotions
soul
spirit
morality
religion
spirituality

Creation:
objectivity
fact = copying / modelling something from creation
body
brain
fantasy
mathematics

This post is so messed up that I don't even know how to properly reply to it...
 

Ultimatum

Classical Liberal
Only creationism validates both fact and opinion, that is why it should be the foundation of science. Other philosophies only validate fact, like materialism, or only validate opinion, like postmodernism.

Creator:
subjectivity
opinion = the result of choosing about what it is that chooses
emotions
soul
spirit
morality
religion
spirituality

Creation:
objectivity
fact = copying / modelling something from creation
body
brain
fantasy
mathematics

d91SyST.jpg
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
Your poll answers don't seem to have anything to do with the question.

The poll answers have everything to do with the question: But they are set up in way so that if you disagree with the premise of creationism being taught you "look bad". Pretty typical crap I have noticed.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
"Creationism" in no way validates "fact" or "science" since no evidence can be put forth to validate it. One may believe in a god or gods, but beliefs are not necessarily facts.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
If believers will allow atheism to be taught in church, then creationism can be taught in school. So Sunday morning in church would thus have an hour devoted to telling those attending why religion is wrong.

I happen to believe in intelligent design but it's theology not science. To try to pollute science with religion is as bad as insisting that atheism be taught as part of a church service.
 

Midnight Rain

Well-Known Member
Only creationism validates both fact and opinion, that is why it should be the foundation of science. Other philosophies only validate fact, like materialism, or only validate opinion, like postmodernism.

Creator:
subjectivity
opinion = the result of choosing about what it is that chooses
emotions
soul
spirit
morality
religion
spirituality

Creation:
objectivity
fact = copying / modelling something from creation
body
brain
fantasy
mathematics
No... because there is nothing scientific about creationism. Fact is when belief conforms with reality and evidence. If there is no evidence then the belief cannot be validated. It doesn't make the belief itself invalid but it does make it specifically "Not science".
 

Midnight Rain

Well-Known Member
And both of the options for the poll are wrong.

No creationism shouldn't be taught in school but yes we need clear acceptance of fact. Its just that the fact is that creationism is not science.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
As a Christian/Disciple of Yeshua I say: No. Science should be what's taught in a science class.

With creationism facts only can be taught in science class. By learning creationism students will be better to distinguish fact from opinion, and produce pure facts in science class, without their opinion mixed into the facts.

What happens now is that students put matters of opinion, like morality, into the scientific fact category. That makes for facts which are prejudiced, and opinion which are asserted as fact.

Take something simple and practical like giving an accurate eyewitness account. If a student knows that to obtain facts one must copy, and not choose, in producing a conclusion, then that is good guidance. It will produce more accurate eye witness accounts, they will have better skills of observation.
 

Midnight Rain

Well-Known Member
With creationism facts only can be taught in science class. By learning creationism students will be better to distinguish fact from opinion, and produce pure facts in science class, without their opinion mixed into the facts.
"Pure facts" sounds like a fishy topic here. Mainly because "pure facts" would be above questioning and challenging. However there is a huge line between fact and opinion.

What are some "pure facts" that you would like to see in the classroom and what are some "opinions" you would like to take out?
What happens now is that students put matters of opinion, like morality, into the scientific fact category. That makes for facts which are prejudiced, and opinion which are asserted as fact.
Typically religion (especially authoritarian religions) are the worst offenders of this kind. Morality isn't studied in the science classroom of children. There are extensive studies going on right now to try and pinpoint the biological factors in "morality" as well as psychological, sociological and anthropological studies being done to study the development of morality as well as its implications to and by the societies and their denizens. However that does not tell us what is moral and what is immoral as rule book.

There is philosophy which is NOT science that have schools of thoughts for deriving moral truths.

Which one of these were you talking about?
Take something simple and practical like giving an accurate eyewitness account. If a student knows that to obtain facts one must copy, and not choose, in producing a conclusion, then that is good guidance. It will produce more accurate eye witness accounts, they will have better skills of observation.
Eyewitness accounts are great and all but how does this develop "pure facts". Eyewitness accounts are unreliable and often discredited in terms of evidence in science or in courts for that matter.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
No. And I agree that the poll is so messed up that an intelligent choice is impossible to make.

With creationism facts only can be taught in science class.
Which would nullify the entire part about creationism.

By learning creationism students will be better to distinguish fact from opinion, and produce pure facts in science class, without their opinion mixed into the facts.
So... you want kids to be taught how to dismiss creationist thought.
The rest of your post is relatively meaningless babble.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
If believers will allow atheism to be taught in church, then creationism can be taught in school. So Sunday morning in church would thus have an hour devoted to telling those attending why religion is wrong.

I happen to believe in intelligent design but it's theology not science. To try to pollute science with religion is as bad as insisting that atheism be taught as part of a church service.

Intelligent design requires facts about decisions made, but the identity of the designer is still a matter of opinion.

This is very clear, because even for people which we obviously can see, there is no evidence of their soul. The soul is what does the designing, the existence of the soul is a matter of opinion. So even for people there is no evidence of a designer, there is only evidence of how it is designed, how it is chosen.

Take for instance an object like a gun. One might see it as an expression of justice, or one might see it as an expression of murder. It is a matter of opinion.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
Eye witness accounts have enormous practical benefits in daily life, and is also essential in much science. One simply can't have machines do all the measuring in practise.
 

Midnight Rain

Well-Known Member
Eye witness accounts have enormous practical benefits in daily life, and is also essential in much science. One simply can't have machines do all the measuring in practise.
But one cannot simply have an eye witness account without something to back it up. Someone can describe an incredibly in depth eye witness account of a unicorn but it wouldn't make it evidence for a unicorn. However showing the hoofprints, having a strand of its hair, a photo, video, digital sound recording or a live creature to back that up would give it credibility.

Teaching critical thinking and skepticism in order to better the observational skills of individuals is a good skill to have but that is not the basis of science.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Intelligent design requires facts about decisions made, but the identity of the designer is still a matter of opinion.
Who cares what so-called "Intelligent design" requires? It is not a scientific theory. Likewise, insistence on any designer is most probably confirmation bias at work.

This is very clear, because even for people which we obviously can see, there is no evidence of their soul. The soul is what does the designing, the existence of the soul is a matter of opinion. So even for people there is no evidence of a designer, there is only evidence of how it is designed, how it is chosen.
There is so much wrong in this sentence I am at a bit of a loss as where to start. So, something that is a matter of opinion is somehow the "designer"? Really?

Take for instance an object like a gun. One might see it as an expression of justice, or one might see it as an expression of murder. It is a matter of opinion.
I see a gun more as a weapon, my feelings about guns are irrelevant.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
There are extensive studies going on right now to try and pinpoint the biological factors in "morality" as well as psychological, sociological and anthropological studies being done to study the development of morality as well as its implications to and by the societies and their denizens. However that does not tell us what is moral and what is immoral as rule book.

You are in fact telling people what ought and ought not as scientific fact, despite your denials. That is shown by that you do not distinguish fact from opinion. The only category you have is fact, so guess where the ought and ought nots are going to end up? They will end up in the fact category, despite your denial.
 
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