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A question for people of all religions

Draka

Wonder Woman
Your issue is that everyone has a different view of Divinity. The religion or belief they have may place their deity/deities on a varying spectrum. This spectrum may range anywhere from "puppet-master" to "un-involved spark of creation/life". Depending on where their belief lay the answer to the "evil" question will vary greatly.

Think of it this way, try on this question for size. Say you give birth to a baby and you give it up for adoption. As far as you know it goes to a good home and family. You find out 25 years later that that child you gave life to murdered their spouse and children. Are YOU responsible for that evil because YOU created that person that carried it out?

Now, when you speak to many people you are speaking to people who think of deity in this fashion. A giver or spark of life. A parent. Not a controller or puppet-master figure.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Ok. Please forgive my ignorance on the subject of satanism, but...
What is your belief on the purpose of life?

We, as individuals, create our own purpose in life. It's up to you to decide your own destiny.
Do you pray to an entity?

I'm not much for prayer lately, but I do pray or talk to various entities on occasion.
Do you believe in good and evil? If so, which do you practise?

No. Those are social constructs. I have my own, simple ethics.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
My question for people of all different religions is mostly about Satan, and why their God will not take responsibility for his existance.

...ALL religions kind of falls apart right here, since not all, or even really most, religions have a concept of Satan. Only certain types of Christianity an Islam, really.

belief will vanish when you sleep. If you believe Christ is God, that belief will vanish when you sleep. When you sleep, you are all atheists. Can't you see how fragile belief will vanish when you sleep.
That doesn't even begin to make sense.

All religions claim to be the true one, forsaking all other religions, even those with similar beliefs.
Mentioned in another thread, but this is not true at all.
 

belles90

Member
We, as individuals, create our own purpose in life. It's up to you to decide your own destiny.


I'm not much for prayer lately, but I do pray or talk to various entities on occasion.


No. Those are social constructs. I have my own, simple ethics.

How do I find out more? Or are these your own personal beliefs? Is there a community that you belong to?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
How do I find out more? Or are these your own personal beliefs? Is there a community that you belong to?

No, I'm not part of any community. I'm a lone wolf when it comes to religion. I do all my own research, thinking and exploration.

Start here:
Satanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Theistic Satanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Luciferianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for my personal beliefs, they're most similar to Michael W. Ford and Diane Vera:
http://luciferianapotheca.myshopify.com/pages/luciferianism-an-introduction
The Order of Phosphorus
Theistic Satanism: Diane Vera on today's new kinds of Satanists
 

belles90

Member
...ALL religions kind of falls apart right here, since not all, or even really most, religions have a concept of Satan. Only certain types of Christianity an Islam, really.

That doesn't even begin to make sense.

Mentioned in another thread, but this is not true at all.

I am asking these questions to hear different veiws and different beliefs from a wide range of religions. I thought forums were a place to post such things, to hold debates, get answers etc.
 

belles90

Member
No, I'm not part of any community. I'm a lone wolf when it comes to religion. I do all my own research, thinking and exploration.

Start here:
Satanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Theistic Satanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Luciferianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for my personal beliefs, they're most similar to Michael W. Ford and Diane Vera:
http://luciferianapotheca.myshopify.com/pages/luciferianism-an-introduction
The Order of Phosphorus
Theistic Satanism: Diane Vera on today's new kinds of Satanists

Thankyou! Gonna do some research on this subject.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
I am asking these questions to hear different veiws and different beliefs from a wide range of religions. I thought forums were a place to post such things, to hold debates, get answers etc.

That is correct. However, the way you worded your questions made them incredibly loaded.

The first statement presumed that all religions have a conception of Satan. This is not true. The second statement I quoted didn't even make any sense(and wasn't a question, anyway, but an argument in desperate need of support), and the third, though clearly meant as a prefix to a few other questions, was also an incorrect presumption.

Wanting to get answers is a great thing. However, you want to be careful about how you word your questions. You've clearly given this topic quite a bit of thought, and now you just need to learn how to effectively express them. That does take practice; I couldn't do it very well, either, when I first joined this forum, and even now have problems.

I do not have a conception of Satan, and am a polytheist, anyway. I don't believe in an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent Creator God. Your question regarding Satan and evil is a very well-known theological problem in classical monotheism called "the problem of evil", and has been struggled with by Christian theologians pretty much since Christianity started. This problem, far as I can tell, disappears entirely with animistic polytheism.

As for history, understanding it from a religious standpoint is important, for the same reason that understanding it from a cultural or political standpoint is important. Learn from the past, and repeat what worked, discard what didn't. Implement something new that fits the current culture, discard things that may have worked at the time, but do not fit a modern context.
 
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ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
... saying a devil cannot exist is like saying a bad human cannot exist.

Of course a devil can exist, just as bad human beings can exist. Angelic beings as well. Fallen gatekeepers of "heaven" can exist - Ravana was once a door keeper at the gate to one of the heavens. None of this means Divine Powers are not powerful or even all powerful, it only means souls have free will and might choose to be a devil.

... now where I might vary from a fundemental Christian sect might be that I do not consider a demon necessarily "all bad". More complex than that. For example, Ravana is bad but not necessarily all bad. And he might be a helper of men in the future, or even good or a hero, we all can change.

Why do some consider thr omnipotent the "end game"? What if you experiences are the end game and not the omnipotent?

ravana-4.jpg
 

belles90

Member
That is correct. However, the way you worded your questions made them incredibly loaded.

The first statement presumed that all religions have a conception of Satan. This is not true. The second statement I quoted didn't even make any sense(and wasn't a question, anyway, but an argument in desperate need of support), and the third, though clearly meant as a prefix to a few other questions, was also an incorrect presumption.

Wanting to get answers is a great thing. However, you want to be careful about how you word your questions. You've clearly given this topic quite a bit of thought, and now you just need to learn how to effectively express them. That does take practice; I couldn't do it very well, either, when I first joined this forum, and even now have problems.

I do not have a conception of Satan, and am a polytheist, anyway. I don't believe in an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent Creator God. Your question regarding Satan and evil is a very well-known theological problem in classical monotheism called "the problem of evil", and has been struggled with by Christian theologians pretty much since Christianity started. This problem, far as I can tell, disappears entirely with animistic polytheism.

As for history, understanding it from a religious standpoint is important, for the same reason that understanding it from a cultural or political standpoint is important. Learn from the past, and repeat what worked, discard what didn't. Implement something new that fits the current culture, discard things that may have worked at the time, but do not fit a modern context.

Youre right. I have all these thoughts in my head but I didnt word them correctly. I had done a little research into some religions and most of them believed that there was a satan and that he was evil, which started my thought process on the subject.
This particular forum has been very enlightening, esp hearing that not all religions believe in satan. I had no idea.
Thankyou, you have given me alot to think on and different aspects to research :)
 

belles90

Member
... saying a devil cannot exist is like saying a bad human cannot exist.

Of course a devil can exist, just as bad human beings can exist. Angelic beings as well. Fallen gatekeepers of "heaven" can exist - Ravana was once a door keeper at the gate to one of the heavens. None of this means Divine Powers are not powerful or even all powerful, it only means souls have free will and might choose to be a devil.

... now where I might vary from a fundemental Christian sect might be that I do not consider a demon necessarily "all bad". More complex than that. For example, Ravana is bad but not necessarily all bad. And he might be a helper of men in the future, or even good or a hero, we all can change.

Why do some consider thr omnipotent the "end game"? What if you experiences are the end game and not the omnipotent?

ravana-4.jpg

This is very interesting, thankyou. I like your explainations on your own beliefs and would like to know a little more about it.
I guess I am searching for something but in the past have been looking in the wrong places and made the wrong assumptions.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Youre right. I have all these thoughts in my head but I didnt word them correctly. I had done a little research into some religions and most of them believed that there was a satan and that he was evil, which started my thought process on the subject.
This particular forum has been very enlightening, esp hearing that not all religions believe in satan. I had no idea.
Thankyou, you have given me alot to think on and different aspects to research :)

No problem. Continue to ask questions; keeps the mind sharp.

...And Satanists/some Luciferians. :p

D'OH!!
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
That is the answer that most people rely on. However that isnt the question. If God created all, then evil must have been known to him. Nothing in creation exists beyond gods will.

Hello belles. There is a bigger picture if you are willing to step back and start from scratch.

If you believe in a Creator, then you believe that he brought into existence all living things as well as the inanimate things in the universe.

He did not create all life with his own kind of intelligence, but made animals to share our planet and to enhance our existence. We were assigned as caretakers of this earth, a tiny speck of a planet on the edge of the Milky Way. It is placed perfectly to support life.

But we are not the only creatures that God made in his image. Spirit beings were also brought into existence long before God made the material universe. These beings occupy the realm we know as "heaven" yet none of us really know what heaven is like or even where it is located.

The one thing God gave all intelligent creatures was free will. Any being made in the image of the Creator was given the right to use free will in a thousand choices every day. It was meant to be a gift.

As with humans, spirit creatures have different personalities and traits. The Bible indicates that satan was once a faithful son of God who abused his free will and seduced humankind into joining him in rebellion.

How did he accomplish this? By asking a simple question and implying something about God by its answer. "Is it really so"? He asked the woman that God says "you can't eat from every tree of the garden"? She affirmed that God said they could eat of every tree, except just one....."the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". Notice that this tree represented knowledge of both "good and evil" so as far as God was concerned, He would decide what was good and bad for his children, in much the same way that human parents do now.

Keeping evil away from his children was a priority. But at the same time, he had given them free will. By keeping the tree in the middle of the garden, he was reminding them of their obligation to obey him in order to keep living. This was the only restriction they had and the penalty for disobeying this command was death. Clearly stated. Satan lied to the woman about the consequences, so she ate the fruit expecting a good result. She didn't die immediately so she gave some to her husband. But the first steps on the path to death had begun.

Since no other food source was off limits, there was no hardship created by the restriction at all. It allowed them to respect their Father's property and to express gratitude for all the other wonderful things he had given them by obeying his command. They should have trusted him to only bring good things into their lives. Their paradise home was confirmation of his love for them.

The first rebel however, was not human. The angelic being that came to be known as "satan the devil" was once a faithful son of God who was dissatisfied with his lot.
Having aspirations to be worshipped as a god himself, he saw an opportunity with the creation of lesser beings to attain his ambition.
If he could get the first humans to disobey God, he could separate them from their heavenly Father and become a father and god to them by proxy. He could gain the worship he craved by getting them to obey him instead.

God had the power to eliminate those rebels right then and there....but he didn't. Free willed beings have to make choices and now those choices had been made to rebel against the Creator, God would use the results as the greatest object lesson in history. They would reap what they had sown.

Satan wanted to be a god, so the Creator allowed him to rule mankind whilst he stepped back and allowed things to play out as he knew they would. A knowledge of evil was in the world...there was no taking it back, so humans would now experience the full consequence of their choice.

So how are we enjoying the devil's rulership? Is it what Adam and his wife envisioned? Did they "become like God, knowing good and bad"? Did the knowledge of evil benefit them in any way?
All it delivered was pain, suffering and death.

Free will was indeed the issue and by allowing the rebels to experience the full consequence of their choices and instituting a rescue mission by the sacrifice of his son, God has set precedents for all eternity to come.
Never again will free willed beings be permitted to rebel.

What we lost in Eden will be returned to us by means of the kingdom that Jesus taught us to pray for...and then the Creator can get on with what he purposed at the beginning, before this necessary excursion into consequences ever took place.

That in essence is my explanation to your question.

God did not create evil for something to do. Evil exists as an equal and opposite of good. Everything in creation has an equal opposite. The difference with evil is that God never intended for it to touch our lives. Humans unleashed it and we have proven beyond a shadow of doubt that we are not better off with that knowledge, nor are we better off with satan as our god and ruler. :no:

There is so much more to it, but for the sake of the exercise, I will leave it there.
 

illykitty

RF's pet cat
Youre right. I have all these thoughts in my head but I didnt word them correctly. I had done a little research into some religions and most of them believed that there was a satan and that he was evil, which started my thought process on the subject.
This particular forum has been very enlightening, esp hearing that not all religions believe in satan. I had no idea.
Thankyou, you have given me alot to think on and different aspects to research :)

Pardon me, but I'll ask a question in return, which religions did you look into?

As for your questions, I have my own beliefs... I suppose they're close to paganism, pan(en)theism and polytheism. It's based on nature, the cosmos and values I care about. I don't claim it to be the true way. It is MY way, which I've developed over many years of searching, and still is up for change. Also, there's no devil or Satan in my beliefs.

What we see as bad or evil to me falls into two categories, natural and man-made. Natural is neutral. A volcano doesn't decide to destroy a town. We view it as a bad event, but a volcano isn't bad. Man-made evil falls on our shoulders. We're responsible for it so it is up to us to deal with the consequences, to either let it happen or do something about it, since we are aware and can make decisions. Basically I agree with what Draka said.

Oh and take it or leave it, one advice is to look up the many DIRs here, pick a religion then search it on wiki. Sure it might not be 100% accurate but will give you an overview. Also, don't neglect to look up different concepts... There's pantheism, panentheism, deism, polytheism, dualism, etc. So many different ways to view the deity/deities.

It's a daunting task, it's taking many years and I'm still learning new things, lol. :D
 

Triumphant_Loser

Libertarian Egalitarian
Interesting, thankyou! Do you believe that life has a purpose?

It does if we give it one, yes. That's the thing about deism. We are not given one divinely-set preordained path. My purpose in life is what I make it. Which to me is to be a good person to the best of my abilities... Even without the specific guidance of a deity. Although there is nothing wrong with drawing inspiration from various religious texts such as the Bible, the Torah, the Eightfold Path, the Vedas, etc. We believe that the true word of God is the conscience he/she/it has given us.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
... saying a devil cannot exist is like saying a bad human cannot exist.

Of course a devil can exist, just as bad human beings can exist.

I agree with this but 'a devil' is a lot milder thing than 'SATAN' of the OP's conception.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
You have a low, low view or religionists I see. I hope you realize many, many religionists nowadays don't hold the views you are trying to pin on them.

The anti-abortion protestors are back at my local hospital. Judging by the wording of their signs, I'm pretty sure they're not secular humanists. You might not share the views the OP describes, but they're definitely part of the mainstream religious spectrum.
 
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