To those opposed to the Israeli Offensive in Gaza

[dantech]

I’ve noticed that of all the people I see online who are against the Israeli offensive in Gaza, the common trend is that most never really offer an alternative to dealing with the rocket fire. (In case you didn’t know, the democratically elected government in Gaza has been firing thousands of rockets at Israeli civilians for the past decade, openly calls for the death of Jews, and denies Israel’s right to exist.) Even when asked direct questions like ‘what would you suggest Israel does instead?’, they often have to be asked three or four times before giving a straight answer. When they finally do offer their suggestion it seems to always be one of these:


1) End the blockade of Gaza.

Gaza with no blockade has been tried already. In 2005, every last Israeli was evacuated from Gaza and borders were opened. Ariel Sharon, then Israeli Prime Minister, said the goal was for Israel to live ‘side-by-side, in understanding and peace’, with the Palestinians living in ‘dignity and freedom in an independent state’. The Palestinians destroyed everything left over by Israel and elected Hamas the following year, whose charter calls for the death of Jews and Israel. Instead of trying to build an economy, they spent millions producing weaponry to fire on Israel. Israel and Egypt instituted a naval blockade around Gaza to keep weapons out, which it has (although rockets have still managed to find their way into Gaza from Iran and Syria). Just a few months ago, Israel intercepted a ship from Iran carrying a cargo of advanced missiles. In fact, just this past weekend, Israel destroyed a warehouse in Sudan of Iranian missiles en route to Hamas. These weapons are being sent to a government whose charter makes it clear that it wants to use them against Israeli civilians. I know the analogies get old, but if Canada’s constitution called for the death of Americans, and it was importing its weapons from Greenland, very few sane Americans would oppose a military blockade (at the very least).

2) Try to negotiate a ceasefire.

This has been attempted several times, and not just in the past few weeks. Hamas’s conditions for a ceasefire include completely lifting the blockade and opening borders (which would clearly threaten Israeli security), along with a host of other demands. One of the reasons governments don’t negotiate with terrorists is because it rewards attack on civilians. And as you may know, all three ceasefires attempted recently were kept by Israel and broken by Hamas.

3) Do nothing and let the Iron Dome missile defense system do its job.

This has got to be the most absurd suggestion I’ve seen. Whatever percentage of rockets the Iron Dome intersects, as long as it’s less than 100%, this would mean a life of constant sirens and danger that no country would tolerate. I just checked, and literally as I was typing the last sentence, a rocket was fired into Israel. Millions across Israel have seconds to find shelter when rockets are fired – the danger is real. The rockets are getting increasingly more sophisticated, and the idea that Israel should wait until more Israelis are killed before they are allowed to respond is ludicrous. Any government that didn’t do everything in its power to protect its citizens from acts of terror (to the tune of more than 2,000 rockets in 2014 alone, as of today) would be unequivocally derelict.

But what about all the civilian casualties in Gaza? My heart breaks just as much as yours for innocent deaths anywhere – but you might start by blaming Hamas for firing rockets from schools and hospitals. If Israel didn’t care about killing civilians, Gaza would be a graveyard by now. Israel has warned civilians in Gaza to evacuate before striking, to the detriment of its operation. Israel sends humanitarian aid into Gaza, and sets up medical aid on the border to treat wounded Palestinians (which Hamas doesn’t allow Palestinians to go to). Israel has done much more to prevent the loss of civilian lives than can be said of the US and other Western countries in their military campaigns over the past century. Tens of thousands of Iraqi, Afghan, and Pakistani civilians were killed in the last decade. In fact, hundreds were killed in Syria in just the last few days! As has been already said, if the relatively tiny amount of civilians killed in Gaza in an operation against terrorism touches your heart so deeply but we didn’t hear you crying out about any of the other thousands of innocents killed worldwide, you’re not ‘pro-human rights’ – you’re anti-Semitic.

And yes, anti-Israel = anti-Semitic. Israel is a Jewish state – you couldn’t be anti-Canada without being anti-Canadian. (Don’t misunderstand me – you could disagree with Israeli government policy without being anti-Semitic – no one is claiming otherwise. But if you were to hold Israel to a higher standard than every other country in the world, or undermine its right to protect against existential threats, that would undoubtedly make you anti-Semitic.) Moreover, this is not a geographical dispute – it’s an ideological war. Hamas’s charter is very clear that it wants me dead in New York City just as much as the families it’s firing on in Tel Aviv (which, by the way, is not a ‘settlement’).

So whatever ‘pro-human rights’ squabbling you feel the need to speak, post, or rally about, we Jews will always defend ourselves against forces of evil and terror bent on our destruction. And we’ll win – we always do.

(Oh and by the way, another rocket was just fired as I typed that paragraph.)

To those opposed to the Israeli offensive in Gaza | Nathan Cepelinski | Ops & Blogs | The Times of Israel

 

[Estro Felino]

You defend yourself when you try to prevent your enemy from attacking you.
Not when you attack innocent people, other than your attackers

 

[dantech]

You defend yourself when you try to prevent your enemy from attacking you.
Not when you attack innocent people, other than your attackers

And you just proved the first sentence of this post to be true.

 

[Estro Felino]

As for the Anti-semitism thing.
well...Jews are not the only victims...because Muslim terrorists hate both Christians and Jews. Lots of Christians are murdered daily in Middle East and Africa by Muslims.

Muslims who stain the good reputation of the loving and peaceful Muslims around the world

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I am in a command and control room. Radar detects a rocket barrage direct at my troops or, in many more cases, at one on my cities. I can …

• refuse to respond and allow the shelling to continue, or
• employ the technology at my disposal to take out the launch site.

What do I do?

 

[sandandfoam]

I am in a command and control room. Radar detects a rocket barrage direct at my troops or, in many more cases, at one on my cities. I can …

• refuse to respond and allow the shelling to continue, or
• employ the technology at my disposal to take out the launch site.

What do I do?

I think the thing to do is to take the rocket out in the air and work out how to stop the rockets being fired into the future.
I understand that support for Hamas was at something like 15% when the present conflict started. Taking out the launch sites in the open prison that is Gaza means lots of innocent people are dying and from an entirely cynical point of view that can only be counter productive in the long term.

 

[sandandfoam]

From the Jerusalem Post

Only if we finally address the real issues – the occupation, the continued suffering of the Palestinian people, the need to negotiate a real and comprehensive peace, will we put an end to this suffering, destruction and killing.

Palestinians will never give up their rightful demand to live as a free people in their own state. The young people in Gaza, who have no future, will not give up their rightful demand to live as young people do all over the world with hopes and dreams for a career, a family, a decent living, the freedom to move and the freedom to determine one’s own future.

There is a way out of this mess. There is a merging of interests in the region between the moderates against the extremists. This is what can bring us together and work for a durable peace. It must be a regional effort, and regional security and stability can be achieved for the benefit of both Israel and Palestine. This is a complex process and will take time, but it is doable.

 

[Godobeyer]

As for the Anti-semitism thing.
well...Jews are not the only victims...because Muslim terrorists hate both Christians and Jews. Lots of Christians are murdered daily in Middle East and Africa by Muslims.

and when people hate, there is nothing you can do about it.

Terrorists are murdered Muslims too ,

our problem with zionists in Isreal is :
is blaming Hamas as terrorists group to justify slaying the innocents .

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I think the thing to do is to take the rocket out in the air and work out how to stop the rockets being fired into the future.
I understand that support for Hamas was at something like 15% when the present conflict started. Taking out the launch sites in the open prison that is Gaza means lots of innocent people are dying and from an entirely cynical point of view that can only be counter productive in the long term.

I'll take the time to pursue the above when I get back home. For now, I just want to take the time to applaud you for giving a straight forward answer to the question. Frubals.

 

[Godobeyer]

let's comment about this garbage which justify to killing innocents in Gaza :

and denies Israel’s right to exist

it's exist , how about the right to RE-exist ?

And yes, anti-Israel = anti-Semitic. Israel is a Jewish state – you couldn’t be anti-Canada without being anti-Canadian.

how about the jews whom disagree with that ?

[youtube]UxqycmRxn18[/youtube]
International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network Condemns Israeli Crimes on Gaza (7-12-14) - YouTube

If Israel didn’t care about killing civilian

but it's continous to killing civilians !!!

 

[Levite]

Whatever. All the anti-Semitic claptrap about Israel's strikes against Hamas being "unprovoked" or "genocidal" or "illegitimate," all the anti-Semitic rioting and vandalism and verbal abuse in Europe, America, and even other places in the world, under the guise of pro-Palestinian support or humanitarian angst or whatnot-- it's all just a continuation of the same Jew-hating and Jew-baiting that's gone on for centuries. Israel and Middle East politics is just the new cover story.

The irony is that the more these people claim that Israel has no right to exist, the world doesn't need a Jewish State, and then threaten and abuse Jews because of those claims-- the more they prove the need for a Jewish State, and validate the importance of Israel to the world Jewish community.

If any of these people actually gave a damn about humanitarian crises or loss of innocent life or bloodbaths, there would be mass protests and riots about what's going on in Iraq, in Syria, in a dozen different places in Africa. But of course, it's not about humanitarianism or anguish over innocent loss of life. It's about the world hating that the Jewish People have a state, that they are willing to defend themselves and not just sit back and get slaughtered, and that Jews have had the temerity to stand up and demand to be treated as a nation among all the other nations.

It's sickening, but it's nothing new.

 

[ametist]

Whatever. All the anti-Semitic claptrap about Israel's strikes against Hamas being "unprovoked" or "genocidal" or "illegitimate," all the anti-Semitic rioting and vandalism and verbal abuse in Europe, America, and even other places in the world, under the guise of pro-Palestinian support or humanitarian angst or whatnot-- it's all just a continuation of the same Jew-hating and Jew-baiting that's gone on for centuries. Israel and Middle East politics is just the new cover story.

The irony is that the more these people claim that Israel has no right to exist, the world doesn't need a Jewish State, and then threaten and abuse Jews because of those claims-- the more they prove the need for a Jewish State, and validate the importance of Israel to the world Jewish community.

If any of these people actually gave a damn about humanitarian crises or loss of innocent life or bloodbaths, there would be mass protests and riots about what's going on in Iraq, in Syria, in a dozen different places in Africa. But of course, it's not about humanitarianism or anguish over innocent loss of life. It's about the world hating that the Jewish People have a state, that they are willing to defend themselves and not just sit back and get slaughtered, and that Jews have had the temerity to stand up and demand to be treated as a nation among all the other nations.

It's sickening, but it's nothing new.

sorry but it is always catching my attention. you claiming that people hate jews and thats their motivation. i asked you before, why do you think people hate jews?
are we all expected to feel guilty and give extra sensitivity to whereever jews involved (even though we dont have that hatred) without any proper answer to this? why you claim there is hatred to jews?
you heard of circassians? real bad genocide there as well, away from their land, a nation without state. i have neighbours..and we are the citizens of same state now.

 

[sandandfoam]

Whatever. All the anti-Semitic claptrap about Israel's strikes against Hamas being "unprovoked" or "genocidal" or "illegitimate," all the anti-Semitic rioting and vandalism and verbal abuse in Europe, America, and even other places in the world, under the guise of pro-Palestinian support or humanitarian angst or whatnot-- it's all just a continuation of the same Jew-hating and Jew-baiting that's gone on for centuries. Israel and Middle East politics is just the new cover story.

The irony is that the more these people claim that Israel has no right to exist, the world doesn't need a Jewish State, and then threaten and abuse Jews because of those claims-- the more they prove the need for a Jewish State, and validate the importance of Israel to the world Jewish community.

If any of these people actually gave a damn about humanitarian crises or loss of innocent life or bloodbaths, there would be mass protests and riots about what's going on in Iraq, in Syria, in a dozen different places in Africa. But of course, it's not about humanitarianism or anguish over innocent loss of life. It's about the world hating that the Jewish People have a state, that they are willing to defend themselves and not just sit back and get slaughtered, and that Jews have had the temerity to stand up and demand to be treated as a nation among all the other nations.

It's sickening, but it's nothing new.

That is not correct Levite. I, for one, support Israel and I do not hate Jewish people. Quite the opposite. I have read a lot of critical comment written by Israelis in both the Jerusalem Post and Haaretz. These authors are hardly 'jew haters'.
Here's a good example http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.607862

I am opposed to the slaughter in Syria, Iraq and elsewhere. I think war and military action is never a solution and I feel no need to make a special exception for the actions of the IDF.

Moreover, as I've posted previously, I believe that they type of military action that Israel is currently undertaking will prove to be counter productive in the long run because I believe these actions will radicalize a whole new generation of Palestinian youth.

 

[Levite]

That is not correct Levite. I, for one, support Israel and I do not hate Jewish people. Quite the opposite. I have read a lot of critical comment written by Israelis in both the Jerusalem Post and Haaretz. These authors are hardly 'jew haters'.
Here's a good example  Advertisement

I am opposed to the slaughter in Syria, Iraq and elsewhere. I think war and military action is never a solution and I feel no need to make a special exception for the actions of the IDF.

Moreover, as I've posted previously, I believe that they type of military action that Israel is currently undertaking will prove to be counter productive in the long run because I believe these actions will radicalize a whole new generation of Palestinian youth.

I never said anything about you personally. I think you're often wrong in your conclusions, but I am by no means suggesting that your erroneous conclusions arise from anti-Semitism.

In any case, there is a difference between productive criticism and unproductive criticism, and between reasonable criticism of any kind and covert bigotry.

Plenty of Jews-- myself included-- are sometimes critical of the decisions, choices, or actions of Israel's government or military. And that is good: no government should be beyond criticism.

The majority of this criticism is, I think ultimately productive: it reflects the desires of the world Jewish community for Israeli society to be more just, more egalitarian, more vigorous in pursuit of peace, while continuing to be steadfast and on-point in pursuing Israel's security-- all goals that are good for any populace to have when critiquing their government. But some is less productive or unproductive-- both from the far right, which can descend into Islamophobia or racism, or from the far left, which can devolve into gullible surrenderism, dangerously unfounded faith in the ability and willingness of terrorists to be reasonable, and a well-meaning humanistic concern for the well-being of innocents that paralyzes them and blinds them to the unfortunate realities of self-defense.

As for criticism from non-Jews, one does occasionally see thoughtful and balanced criticism of the Israeli government or its actions. But more often, it is well-intentioned humanistic concern for those perceived as the "underdog," without much contextualization, full comprehension of the situation, or understanding of the history behind it.

Israel is consistently the victim of a double standard: it is expected to behave in ways no other nation would be expected to behave, and to suffer through provocations no other nation would be expected to walk away from.

Its very right to exist is constantly questioned, either directly and explicitly, or tacitly and subtly in the way that "critiques" of Israel are framed.

It is always either being depicted as a tool of America or the insidious manipulators of America, as either ruthless colonialists or undeserving strays who were given the land of others by the Western Powers as some sort of guilty apology for the Holocaust.

And so on, a laundry list of slights both subtle and gross that I couldn't relate in full if I wrote for days. All are ultimately grounded in anti-Semitic ideas that most of the people who use them or repeat them don't even realize are anti-Semitic.

But even more often, the criticism we face from non-Jews isn't real criticism at all. It's just Jew-hatred in a new suit of clothes. Slurs and stereotypes that have been around for ages come out again, sometimes with "Zionist" replacing "Jew," but more and more often without even that gloss.

More people are killed in Arab-on-Arab conflicts, in African conflicts, in South American gang violence, in Russian expansionism, than are killed in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Fine, you say you oppose all violence, and make no difference. Good for you. But what about other people? Why do they prioritize the Israel-Palestinian conflict over all these others? Why does the media spend more time on this than on any conflict in Africa or South America, or even Syria or Iraq? Why are there anti-Jewish riots but not even significant demonstrations against Islamist extremist groups or the Syrian government? Why are there protest marches against Zionism, but nothing about the civil war/fanatical uprisings in the Central African Republic and the Congo, about the insurgencies in Chad, Niger, Nigeria, Mauritania, and Mali, the violent chaos in Sudan and South Sudan, Mozambique. For that matter, China has been far more brutal in its occupation and crushing repression of Tibet, and what does that get? People wear rubber bracelets, and sometimes Richard Gere says something at the Oscars. Refugees by the thousands are fleeing deadly government corruption and oppression by militias and drug cartels from Brazil to Mexico, and not only are there no demonstrations on their behalf, more people in America protest to keep them out of the country than to help them in any way.

With all this going on, and so much focus on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and so much popular support for a terrorist group "government" that uses its own populace as human shields, builds its tunnels using child labor, and brutally publically executes anyone it thinks is not obeying it, while at the same time the world is seeing an uptick in anti-Semitic violence unlike anything since the 1930s, in what way is it at all reasonable to propose that this is not Jew-hatred, but some other, benign, thing, that just sometimes happens to have unfortunate side effects?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I think the thing to do is to take the rocket out in the air and work out how to stop the rockets being fired into the future.

Again, thanks.

So, two points:

1. The rocket barrage on Israel is pervasive. As shown here there has been roughly 2,500 such attempts in July alone. This means that day and night men, women, and children are being rushed into shelters all across the country. On CNN this morning a heard of one young mother asking: 'When the Code Red siren sounds, which of my three children do I grab first?' You are suggesting that this be allowed to continue as a matter of State policy.
2. You say that "the thing to do is to take the rocket out in the air" as if this is an easy task. But note:

   A leading US expert on missile defence has raised doubts about the efficacy of Israel's Iron Dome defence system.
   
   Israeli officials say it hit some 84% of the targets engaged in last year's conflict with Hamas in Gaza.
   
   But Professor Theodore Postol of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology suggests the defence system's success rate may have been "drastically lower".
   
   - source

   And even if we accept the 84% estimate, you are recommending that Israel allow 400 out of every 2,500 missiles do whatever damage it might randomly do while Israeli citizens are consigned to shelters.
3. Finally, this passive reliance on Iron Dome does absolutely nothing to protect Israeli forces who come under fire in Gaza. This suggests that you are further suggesting either (A) that Israeli ground forces be left unprotected, or (B) that that no action be taken against the terrorist labyrinth or the continued stockpiling of armaments.

Correct? And how might we "work out how to stop the rockets being fired into the future" in the context of a terrorist organization committed to the Hamas Charter?

 

[sandandfoam]

Again, thanks.

You're welcome

1. The rocket barrage on Israel is pervasive. As shown here there has been roughly 2,500 such attempts in July alone. This means that day and night men, women, and children are being rushed into shelters all across the country. On CNN this morning a heard of one young mother asking: 'When the Code Red siren sounds, which of my three children do I grab first?' You are suggesting that this be allowed to continue as a matter of State policy.

I am absolutely not suggesting that this be allowed continue. My suggestion is that the IDF response by causing so many civilian deaths in Palestine is ensuring that this continue.
I think that the answer to this must be political rather than military. Hamas must be defeated and hearts and minds of Palestinians are key.

1. You say that "the thing to do is to take the rocket out in the air" as if this is an easy task. But note:And even if we accept the 84% estimate, you are recommending that Israel allow 400 out of every 2,500 missiles do whatever damage it might randomly do while Israeli citizens are consigned to shelters.

I accept that this is not an easy task but I think it is the least awful in an awful array of options.

Finally, this passive reliance on Iron Dome does absolutely nothing to protect Israeli forces who come under fire in Gaza. This suggests that you are further suggesting either (A) that Israeli ground forces be left unprotected, or (B) that that no action be taken against the terrorist labyrinth or the continued stockpiling of armaments.Correct? And how might we "work out how to stop the rockets being fired into the future" in the context of a terrorist organization committed to the Hamas Charter?

Hamas must be defeated. I read somewhere that their support had fallen to 15% before the present conflict began. I hope I am wrong but I suspect that recent events will have increased their support. An increase in support means more rockets being fired in the future. The surest way to defeat them is to engineer a viable political alternative.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I am absolutely not suggesting that this be allowed continue.

I believe that in effect you are.

I accept that this is not an easy task but I think it is the least awful in an awful array of options.

You might think differently if you were raising young children in Sderot.

 

[ametist]

i think you are asking permition from people's conscience to accept to the killing of some thousand people %75 of which are civilians (as reportf by UN reports) including women and children and to further these attacks if you will.
i dont know what others have to say but my conscience is not giving that permission. Especially after i witnessed the israel support's attitude in these forums.

 

[LuisDantas]

Thanks for opening this thread.

A few comments:

To those opposed to the Israeli offensive in Gaza | Nathan Cepelinski | Ops & Blogs | The Times of Israel

I’ve noticed that of all the people I see online who are against the Israeli offensive in Gaza, the common trend is that most never really offer an alternative to dealing with the rocket fire. (In case you didn’t know, the democratically elected government in Gaza has been firing thousands of rockets at Israeli civilians for the past decade, openly calls for the death of Jews, and denies Israel’s right to exist.) Even when asked direct questions like ‘what would you suggest Israel does instead?’, they often have to be asked three or four times before giving a straight answer.

There is indeed a need to be fair and admit that this is a very difficult dilemma, and one that might well be answered in an even worse fashion by the governments of many of Israel's critics.

When they finally do offer their suggestion it seems to always be one of these:


1) End the blockade of Gaza.

Gaza with no blockade has been tried already. In 2005, every last Israeli was evacuated from Gaza and borders were opened. Ariel Sharon, then Israeli Prime Minister, said the goal was for Israel to live ‘side-by-side, in understanding and peace’, with the Palestinians living in ‘dignity and freedom in an independent state’. The Palestinians destroyed everything left over by Israel and elected Hamas the following year, whose charter calls for the death of Jews and Israel. Instead of trying to build an economy, they spent millions producing weaponry to fire on Israel. Israel and Egypt instituted a naval blockade around Gaza to keep weapons out, which it has (although rockets have still managed to find their way into Gaza from Iran and Syria). Just a few months ago, Israel intercepted a ship from Iran carrying a cargo of advanced missiles. In fact, just this past weekend, Israel destroyed a warehouse in Sudan of Iranian missiles en route to Hamas. These weapons are being sent to a government whose charter makes it clear that it wants to use them against Israeli civilians. I know the analogies get old, but if Canada’s constitution called for the death of Americans, and it was importing its weapons from Greenland, very few sane Americans would oppose a military blockade (at the very least).

Fair point, but not necessarily a convincing one. I am not well aware of the reasons for the blockade, but you seem to imply that it is for stopping the flow of weapons into Gaza.

It also seems to have failed at that, if the current situation is any indication. Sure, it could conceivably have been far worse without the blockade, but it seems clear to me that such a measure is not a true solution - and odds are very good indeed that it creates and feeds a lot of problems of its own. At the very least, it is a constant reminder of Israel's military superiority and of how limited and questionable is Gaza's sovereignity even if it has its own elections. More on this a bit ahead.

2) Try to negotiate a ceasefire.

This has been attempted several times, and not just in the past few weeks. Hamas’s conditions for a ceasefire include completely lifting the blockade and opening borders (which would clearly threaten Israeli security), along with a host of other demands. One of the reasons governments don’t negotiate with terrorists is because it rewards attack on civilians. And as you may know, all three ceasefires attempted recently were kept by Israel and broken by Hamas.

Laudable as they are, ceasefires are not much of a solution either, at least by themselves. They are a worthy measure, but they by definition serve only to earn time, supposedly so that room for seeking actual solutions can exist.

And while I am very willing to be proven wrong, I am not aware that such an imminence of presentation of solutions has been expected.

3) Do nothing and let the Iron Dome missile defense system do its job.

This has got to be the most absurd suggestion I’ve seen. Whatever percentage of rockets the Iron Dome intersects, as long as it’s less than 100%, this would mean a life of constant sirens and danger that no country would tolerate.

Probably. That is one of the reasons why I am opposed to the concept of country.

Israel of course can't simply let the missiles come and hope to catch them all passively. But pretty much everything else that it has done or tried seems to actually boost the feeling of humiliation among Gazans and their determination to kill as many Israelians as they can.

It must be despairing and feel grossly unfair.

I just checked, and literally as I was typing the last sentence, a rocket was fired into Israel. Millions across Israel have seconds to find shelter when rockets are fired – the danger is real. The rockets are getting increasingly more sophisticated, and the idea that Israel should wait until more Israelis are killed before they are allowed to respond is ludicrous.

There are no sane ideas in the set that takes as a premise that lethal war force must be employed.

Any government that didn’t do everything in its power to protect its citizens from acts of terror (to the tune of more than 2,000 rockets in 2014 alone, as of today) would be unequivocally derelict.

Agreed. We should therefore consider which are the most promising approaches for that doubtlessly worthy goal.

 

[LuisDantas]

But what about all the civilian casualties in Gaza? My heart breaks just as much as yours for innocent deaths anywhere – but you might start by blaming Hamas for firing rockets from schools and hospitals.

A better comparison would be blaming bank robbers for taking hostages, therefore making killers out of policemen that do not hold fire at those situations.

Whatever Hamas may be doing and how ethically reprehensible it may be, it is still a plain and (from Gaza's perspective) unforgettable and unforgivable fact that it is Israel blasting them back and killing their citizens.

A fair case may be built that the Gazans should be blaming Hamas at least as much as they blame Israel, but that is a bad bet to make. Human nature bein what it is, it will always be the "foreigners", those we do not have to deal with every day, that will be blamed.

The bottom line is that no matter how impecably justified Israel's counterattacks may be (and there is only so far to go on that thread to begin with), launching counterattacks may well serve Hama's purposes better than it serves Israel's. It is certainly not conductive to peace, at the very least.

If Israel didn’t care about killing civilians, Gaza would be a graveyard by now. Israel has warned civilians in Gaza to evacuate before striking, to the detriment of its operation. Israel sends humanitarian aid into Gaza, and sets up medical aid on the border to treat wounded Palestinians (which Hamas doesn’t allow Palestinians to go to). Israel has done much more to prevent the loss of civilian lives than can be said of the US and other Western countries in their military campaigns over the past century.

I can't believe people actually bother to present this kind of talk. I feel insulted. You might as well take pride on how efficient and considerate your street robbers are.

Tens of thousands of Iraqi, Afghan, and Pakistani civilians were killed in the last decade. In fact, hundreds were killed in Syria in just the last few days! As has been already said, if the relatively tiny amount of civilians killed in Gaza in an operation against terrorism touches your heart so deeply but we didn’t hear you crying out about any of the other thousands of innocents killed worldwide,

Attempt at obfuscation, and a transparent one at that. To be promptly ignored and disregarded, remembered only as a hint of dishonest intent.

you’re not ‘pro-human rights’ – you’re anti-Semitic.

Now, this is some piece of droppings.

And yes, anti-Israel = anti-Semitic.

Hardly.

Israel is a Jewish state – you couldn’t be anti-Canada without being anti-Canadian. (Don’t misunderstand me – you could disagree with Israeli government policy without being anti-Semitic – no one is claiming otherwise. But if you were to hold Israel to a higher standard than every other country in the world, or undermine its right to protect against existential threats, that would undoubtedly make you anti-Semitic.)

Do you think any other country in the world is encouraged to expect the right to kill civilians as long as it prides itself on how few they are?

You will still make a full anti-nationalist out of me then.

Moreover, this is not a geographical dispute – it’s an ideological war. Hamas’s charter is very clear that it wants me dead in New York City just as much as the families it’s firing on in Tel Aviv (which, by the way, is not a ‘settlement&#8217.

And guess what? They feel fully justified when you even consider proposing the idea that there are too few civilian casualties in Gaza for Israel to be in the wrong.

I can't say I very much blame them, either.

So whatever ‘pro-human rights’ squabbling you feel the need to speak, post, or rally about, we Jews will always defend ourselves against forces of evil and terror bent on our destruction. And we’ll win – we always do.

All the while keeping the proud contradiction of insisting on the inherent right of Israel to exist as a sovereign state all the while pretty much destroying that of Gaza.

Maybe I should pay more attention to the Anti-Zionist side for a while.

(Oh and by the way, another rocket was just fired as I typed that paragraph.)

And the source:

To those opposed to the Israeli offensive in Gaza | Nathan Cepelinski | Ops & Blogs | The Times of Israel

Now about suggestions for actual measures:

1. Send cammera crews and unarmed soldiers to find and destroy as many rockets as possible. Interview Gazans to find out what motivates them. Flood the world news with what there is to be reported.

2. Kidnap a number of citizens (barbaric, but no worse than math-management of civilian casualties) and keep them on Israeli territory for a while. Attempt to teach them the language and insist on giving them a fair sample of life in Israel. Bring them back and kidnap others in their place. Repeat as needed.

That will fulfill the double purposes of making them human shields for Israel (and no, that is NOT worse than firing your own attacks) and helping in dispel a bit of the perception of Israelis as inhuman monsters that can't be reasoned with.

I'm not expecting much of that, I must admit. But it is worth a try, and morally far superior than the current approach.