Is Karma real or is it just fantasy

[samosasauce]

The human mind perceives patterns where there are none. If we believe in karma it could be our downfall, for if we believe every negative action was caused by a negative action we could completely block compassion and empathy, which are the two most important things to upkeep (at least I believe so)

 

[Nymphs]

He is in solitary confinement and has been this whole time.
He has no one to control

That doesn't mean anything. He can get letters, he talks to the prison staff from time to time. Are you really telling me Charles Manson isn't a sociopath?

 

[Vinayaka]

The human mind perceives patterns where there are none. If we believe in karma it could be our downfall, for if we believe every negative action was caused by a negative action we could completely block compassion and empathy, which are the two most important things to upkeep (at least I believe so)

I view karma much differently, and more importantly as something going forward. You can't change the past, but you can change the way you behave in the present, so behaving compassionately and with empathy can be because of a strong belief in karma.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

The simple view of karma is that every action has a result. If you act in a certain way, it will first become habitual, and end up by changing your character. That's why Socrates said it was worse to do evil than to suffer evil. If you accept reincarnation, then obviously the sort of person you become in this life — and hence what you do in this life — will determine the sort of environment you get in the next.

P.S. I hate the hijacking of threads

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'd say that karma exists in a stochastic sense.

 

[atanu]

The human mind perceives patterns where there are none. If we believe in karma it could be our downfall, for if we believe every negative action was caused by a negative action we could completely block compassion and empathy, which are the two most important things to upkeep (at least I believe so)

Then why compassion and empathy at all?

The past actions produce results like a clockwork, not much can be done about that, except for persevering. But we have the present in hand, where actions that will bear fruit take place. Knowledge of karma only can motivate one properly towards empathy and compassion at present.

 

[sun rise]

Whether one states it as action and reaction as has been stated here upstream, in the Eastern religious sense or the Biblical sense of "what ye sow, so shall ye reap", the idea that one pays for one actions is a common thread of our understanding and one that makes total sense to me.

Trying to apply it in a specific case with a simple formula, on the other hand, I think is too narrow a view. Just as an example, if I kill someone in a previous life, it could be assumed that I would be killed in this life to make up for that murder. But maybe I save the person's life this time?

From a non-reincarnational frame of reference, maybe I pay in the afterlife.

 

[Jainarayan]

Whether one states it as action and reaction as has been stated here upstream, in the Eastern religious sense or the Biblical sense of "what ye sow, so shall ye reap", the idea that one pays for one actions is a common thread of our understanding and one that makes total sense to me.

Trying to apply it in a specific case with a simple formula, on the other hand, I think is too narrow a view. Just as an example, if I kill someone in a previous life, it could be assumed that I would be killed in this life to make up for that murder. But maybe I save the person's life this time?

That pretty much sums it up for me. Everything we do has an effect somewhere down the line, either on ourselves or on others. I use the example of Helen Keller: what could she have possibly done in a past life to deserve to be born blind, deaf and mute. But with her "bad karma" she did so much good for millions of people. I believe we can choose our births, to an extent. Maybe she chose that birth to help others.

 

[YmirGF]

Actions have consequences. I do not believe in a karmic law, of any kind, however.

Reality is not a balance sheet - it's a lot messier.

I can understand how some would find the idea of karma comforting just to keep everything neat and tidy.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Possibly reincarnation is real. I think this because of the Big Bang and because of deja vu. Its possible that the universe destroys itself and is remade over long spans of time. Astronomers call it the 'Big Crunch' theory. Gravity is proof that we are all connected, even though we don't understand how that connection works. That and the expansion of the universe indicates that we are in a way really all one substance, and the Big Crunch theory suggests that the Big Bang may happen in cycles. (It is not a theory that has many followers. Right now infinite universe theories are more popular.)

There are two ways that I can imagine reincarnation working. One, since we all originate from the same super-hot primordial substance and are touching at all times through gravity, its possible that we are actually not separate beings at all. Possibly we only think that we are separate beings. The other way is that perhaps each person is separate but connects to all other beings after every 'Big Crunch' and before every 'Big Bang' so they are reincarnated when the universe is destroyed and reborn. That reincarnation would correspond to the separation caused by the Big Bang. It is just guessing however.

On a different note, who cares if its real? It doesn't seem to benefit me if I am the reincarnation of someone else, and it doesn't seem to benefit them. They can be happy for me, and I can be happy for them but they aren't me. We still have to decide whether life is worthwhile based upon the merits of life as we know it.

 

[sun rise]

Actions have consequences. I do not believe in a karmic law, of any kind, however.

Reality is not a balance sheet - it's a lot messier.

I can understand how some would find the idea of karma comforting just to keep everything neat and tidy.

Karma is not comforting to me. The knowledge that I'm going to have to balance everything I've ever done is more like a kick in the butt to try to make myself a better human being.

 

[YmirGF]

Karma is not comforting to me. The knowledge that I'm going to have to balance everything I've ever done is more like a kick in the butt to try to make myself a better human being.

If that is what you need to better yourself, go for it. Good luck.
It mystifies me why people would NEED a reason to try to be a better human animal. Isn't the quest worthy of pursuit regardless of the outcome?

 

[Leftimies]

I am appalled. 41% of the voters do not believe in causes and effects. Alas, the madness!

 

[kashmir]

I am appalled. 41% of the voters do not believe in causes and effects. Alas, the madness!

The madness is down right disturbing, karma will get them

Thanks everyone for your insight.

 

[George-ananda]

Just wondering what people here think.
I think what happens, is the persons own guilt and actions causes karma upon themselves as well as others are responsible.
Even if they don't know it, because its brought on by the person themselves.

I also believe there's karma from previous lives to deal with.

 

[kashmir]

I also believe there's karma from previous lives to deal with.

I used to think that way too, such as I am scared of heights, so I thought that my previous life might have died from falling off a high area.
I used to even dream that I was always on some narrow area, trying not to fall off.
One that stuck out the most, was trying to drive across a huge bridge that was exactly the width of my car or bicycle or even too narrow to even walk across.

 

[George-ananda]

I used to think that way too, such as I am scared of heights, so I thought that my previous life might have died from falling off a high area.
I used to even dream that I was always on some narrow area, trying not to fall off.
One that stuck out the most, was trying to drive across a huge bridge that was exactly the width of my car or bicycle or even too narrow to even walk across.

This sounds like possible echo memories of past incarnations. This is different from karma.

Karma are energies stored in the super-physical level that spend themselves in the future. Some masters will describe how this process works. However the nechanism by which it works is a bit much for me to get my head around and this subject is not my specialty.

The good news is that it's not important that we understand. All we really need to understand is to live our NOW with compassion. Why events happen as they do is beyond our ability to understand; but there are reasons.

 

[Vinayaka]

I also believe there's karma from previous lives to deal with.

Karma and reincarnation go hand in hand. I think it might be interesting to see if the members here who believe in karma also believe in reincarnation.

 

[atanu]

I voted yes. But, as per Vedanta Hinduism, the matter is a bit more complicated.

Karma attaches to a doer self, where there is a notion "i am this body and i have done this and that ......".

The true being however is said to be not the body-mind but is the awareness aspect that is seer of the body-mind and is not the doer. Once this is realised in experience and one abides as the seer rather than as doer, the karma binding falls off.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

I voted yes. But, as per Vedanta Hinduism, the matter is a bit more complicated.

Karma attaches to a doer self, where there is a notion "i am this body and i have done this and that ......".

The true being however is said to be not the body-mind but is the awareness aspect that is seer of the body-mind and is not the doer. Once this is realised in experience and one abides as the seer rather than as doer, the karma binding falls off.

Yes, the theory of Karma (the original Hindu idea, not the westernized appropriated version) rests on the premise of the existence of the eternal Atman, or the Self, where actions produce Sanskara (Imprints, impressions) on the Atman.

Some quotes from Yoga Sutra may help.

CHAPTER IV – KAIVALYA PADA
INDEPENDENCE

tadasankhyeyavasanachitram api pararthan
sanhatyakaritvat

23) The mind through its innumerable desires acts for
another (the Purusa), being combinations.

(the mind is the instrument to conduct actions for the Purusha (Atma).

As for Karma

karmashuklakrishnnam yoginah trividham itaresham

7) Karma are neither black nor white for the Yogis; for
others they are threefold, black, white, and mixed.

(Here Black and White can be taken to mean Good and Bad)

tatastadvipakanugunanam evabhivyaktirvasananam

8) From these threefold works are manifested in each
state only those desires (which are) fitting to that state
alone. (The others are held in abeyance for the time
being.)

Desires express themselves in the right environment, then actions (Karma) are performed according the desires and reaction (Karma) occurs according to the environment.

Karma is the means to attain perfection, and in Yoga Sutras of Patanjali we find such sutras as.

prasankhyanepyakusidasy sarvathavivekakhyater
dharmameghah samadhih

28) Even when arriving at the right discriminating
knowledge of the senses, he who gives up the fruits,
unto him comes as the result of perfect
discrimination, the Samadhi called the Dharma Megha (Cloud of Dharma)

tatah kleshakarmanivrittih

29) From that comes cessation of pains and Karma.

Here the fruits of ones actions are to be given up to attain freedom from all Karma (reaction). Actions will always be performed and reactions will always be there but if attachment to the results be removed, the pains of the reacting Karma are lessened, how to remove them, well that is the entire point of Yoga.